Protection Paladin Feedback

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We are looking at a change to Block (for all classes), where it would not share DR with your base armor. This won't be in the next build though.

The next build will slightly increase the value of the Consecration effect from mastery. There's a disadvantage to having the mastery split between two effects, where each is weaker than it otherwise would be. But we also want to be careful with making Consecration's damage reduction too strong, where the damage swing in stepping in/out of it might be uncomfortable again.
wow nice!
06/08/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Sigma
We are looking at a change to Block (for all classes), where it would not share DR with your base armor. This won't be in the next build though.

The next build will slightly increase the value of the Consecration effect from mastery. There's a disadvantage to having the mastery split between two effects, where each is weaker than it otherwise would be. But we also want to be careful with making Consecration's damage reduction too strong, where the damage swing in stepping in/out of it might be uncomfortable again.


Hi Sigma,

Thanks for the update. The Armor/Block change makes sense. On paper, it looks like a buff for a Warrior's Crit Block and Redoubt. However for Redoubt, it won't change the calculus of why we won't take the talent. The talent is just much weaker than Holy Shield.

And yes, please do not buff Consecration that much. A slight buff would help bring Mastery's value up. But the problem with buffing it too much is that it could turn Prot Paladins into an AFK tank where they stack Vers and Mastery. I don't think that's a situation that anyone wants.
well this was necessary. for prot war in heroic to mythic dungeon gear mastery was about 65% as effective in perfect scenario compared to vers in all scenarios due to added armor hitting the dr and thats just block-able damage. it would have gotten much worse with higher gear.
I havn't bothered looking at class changes until character copy went up and just found out about our heal being on global. I'll just echo everything people have said already. That sounds like a very bad idea.
06/08/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Reese
And yes, please do not buff Consecration that much. A slight buff would help bring Mastery's value up. But the problem with buffing it too much is that it could turn Prot Paladins into an AFK tank where they stack Vers and Mastery. I don't think that's a situation that anyone wants.


You missed the part where our threat was lowered. So the idea of mobs sticking to a tank that is AFK is not really a think anymore.
06/08/2018 07:48 PMPosted by Sigma
We are looking at a change to Block (for all classes), where it would not share DR with your base armor.


Prot warriors thank their paladin brothers! Hooza!
06/09/2018 12:48 PMPosted by Vengful
06/08/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Reese
And yes, please do not buff Consecration that much. A slight buff would help bring Mastery's value up. But the problem with buffing it too much is that it could turn Prot Paladins into an AFK tank where they stack Vers and Mastery. I don't think that's a situation that anyone wants.


You missed the part where our threat was lowered. So the idea of mobs sticking to a tank that is AFK is not really a think anymore.


Its unlikely that a DPS will pull off you even if you have a moderate level of APM. They are trying to kill really low APM situations that happen in high level M+. If you play normally, the threat change won't affect you.

And I didn't mean literally AFK. It was a bit of hyperbole to make the case that buffing purely passive mitigation stats too much is a bad idea which is still true. :)
Thank god for protection paladins that allow protection warriors to get somewhat of an update.
06/09/2018 06:38 PMPosted by Quard
Thank god for protection paladins that allow protection warriors to get somewhat of an update.


unfortunately Paladin protection is boring ... you end the rotation and the skills are still on the cd, practically you can get up and go get a coffee in the meantime ... I even cast two flash light so just to have something to do ...
So here's couple of my thoughts about state of protection paladin at the moment.

Like everyone else not happy with HotP/LotP on GCD. Doesn't feel fun or skillful or anything positive at all. Also very confusing as to why reactive heal that is dependent on players missing health is on gcd. Would love at least an explanation to that as in the very first statement about GCD changes Watcher said
Similarly, trying to use Lay on Hands to save the day in response to a sudden dip in your tank's health, only to have the spell fail to cast because you'd executed a standard part of your rotation a half-second prior, simply felt bad. We have no plans to put either of those abilities back on the GCD.
I personally don't see much of a difference between Lay on Hands and HotP/LotP.
Also, one of the things that I loved about HotP in Legion was ability to help out my group and healer by throwing out heals to players that suddenly dipped low. Right now in BFA doing that feels like I am purposefully hindering myself because I have to stop my rotation, so most of the time I just won't bother healing them.

Next up recent changes. Definitely think they are step in the right direction. Idea behind it in my opinion is good, but obviously tuning still need to be done
However with the change of Consecration there's a lot of gaps in rotation where you don't really have anything to press. I myself have experienced that multiple times where I'm there waiting sometimes up to 2-3 seconds for spells coming of cd. Obviously with short cd of Consecration it's available for me to use it in these gaps, however it's pointless because it wouldn't give me any benefit. Overall right now "rotation" feels like (apart from first couple seconds of pull) press whatever is off cd and refresh Consecration when it's needed. Obviously by getting more haste throughout expansion it would solve these things, but I don't think having to wait for us to get more haste to just make flow and fun of the spec better is good.
One of the idea I have to at least partially solve this is letting Consecration stack again. Obviously nerfing it's damage and not stacking defensive bonus from mastery. Would solve some gap issues in rotation.
Nerfing damage could lead to relatively small threat issue at the start of the AoE pulls because of how sometimes Avenger's Shield isn't available and Consecration is our 2nd best base option to gain threat in aoe situations. I would suggest something along the lines of decaying dmg ticks so to say first tick deals the most damage and every tick after deals less. Something like consecration that you put down is fading away.

Also not a fan of gcd changes to Seraphim and Avenging Wrath. However I think I have lost hope of seeing them reverted so I'll leave them be. Other's have already discussed this topic to death.

Other than that I feel like spec is in fine place, obviously gonna get better as expansion advances, like protection paladins have been doing for past couple expansions. Overall what I would love to see is - HotP/LotP off GCD and fix rotational gaps.
Like everyone else not happy with HotP/LotP on GCD. Doesn't feel fun or skillful or anything positive at all. Also very confusing as to why reactive heal that is dependent on players missing health is on gcd.


I just got into the Beta a few days ago. This has been the most frustrating change. It feels clunky like being thrown back into Cata tanking. The Devs nailed HotP/LotP off the GCD in legion. There's no reason for this change.

Also not a fan of gcd changes to Seraphim and Avenging Wrath. However I think I have lost hope of seeing them reverted so I'll leave them be. Other's have already discussed this topic to death.


Also this was one of the biggest things I've felt frustrated with. The whole "spool up" process of taking 2-3 seconds to get my buffs up before I can even pull a mob is annoying. While it's "bothersome" in questing, I feel it has no place in a dungeon where seconds count. Wasting multiple GCD cycles on spooling up before a pull only will slow down dungeon runs in the future.

I feel people should still be discussing this topic to death. It's a real problem that affects the class I've solely played for almost a decade.
06/09/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Ulrik
I havn't bothered looking at class changes until character copy went up and just found out about our heal being on global. I'll just echo everything people have said already. That sounds like a very bad idea.


Yes from what people are saying it seems like a lot of the abilities that used to be off the GCD are now on it. Is this actually the case? If so, why do you want us to have almost no flexibility and make it so that we only use abilites based on our GCD? Seems REALLY boring if this is the case and zero flexibility. Lame
06/11/2018 07:53 AMPosted by Âeons
Also this was one of the biggest things I've felt frustrated with. The whole "spool up" process of taking 2-3 seconds to get my buffs up before I can even pull a mob is annoying. While it's "bothersome" in questing, I feel it has no place in a dungeon where seconds count. Wasting multiple GCD cycles on spooling up before a pull only will slow down dungeon runs in the future.

I feel people should still be discussing this topic to death. It's a real problem that affects the class I've solely played for almost a decade.


Even while questing it still feels bad. Having to use wings then seraphim while running up to a mob just feels bad. Wings is 20sec duration and seraphim is 8-16sec duration. They honestly need to increase both duration's by 2seconds to not make it feel bad to use.

LotP/HotP also feels awkward on beta. On live it is off the gcd which feels fantastic but is also a 5sec cooldown for me. On beta it is a 14sec cooldown. While questing it was that much of an issue and I have not run any dungeons as prot yet, but doing some world quests on beta with rares/world bosses I definitely notice it. Get chunked out by a mechanic and go to use HotP only for it not to go off and I die because I was in the middle of a gcd at the time. Just standing there auto attacking waiting for your health bar to get chunked down just so you can use your "reactive" heal honestly is bad design.
Bring back the WoD glyph of mobile consecration. It felt like an awesome mechanic, and helped a lot if DPS pulled wrong and i had to rush across the room to pick up mobs. That and i mean, it makes sense to purify the ground i walk on, not just a small area.
Since playing the Beta since it has come out I would like to add some spec changes that I would like to be looked into. As far as the most recent changes things are looking good, and with the block and Mastery buff coming next build that will certainly help Prot even more.

However there are still some issues that could be cleaned up before launch. I have provided some ideas and issues that I have come across below.

Thanks Bliz!

    Retribution Aura - This talent cannot compete with the the two others on the same row unless its changed or buffed significantly. Currently it does less then .1% of total dmg which is just to little for anyone to ever take it in any situation.

    - I would change retribution Aura to be a smaller circle, and proc a holy bolt of dmg and to scale like a reverse "Last Defender", the more melee or ranged around the harder it hits.

    Ageis of Light - Right now the Prot Paladin has many CD's and this one is not ever needed for multiple reasons. This talent locks you in place when cast, you cannot cast when using it, you must know the fight perfectly in order to use it as you cannot most the boss when used. In legion it was never used.

    - My idea is this Empowered Consecration - Empowers the consecration under your feet to reduce any players dmg taken while standing in it by 20% (3 minute cool down, cannot cast another consecration until the empowered consecration disappears)

    LOTP/HOTP - With these being on the GCD it is making our rotation not as much fun as in legion. And this is not because of haste as I copied my paladin from live with 40+% haste and its still not right. Currently the GCD causes you to play your rotation slower when you think you might need it which hurts DPS, Grand Crusader procs and Judgement Procs. Also this is a reactive heal as its worthless to cast prior to damage coming in like a normal defensive CD. So there is no way you could know if you might not block a hit a go to 20% life and need to either heal, this is where doing your rotation could kill you, if its on GCD and AD is down your most likely dead

    Seraphim - Seraphim needs to be increased by 1.5-2 seconds since it is now on the GCD. SOTR charges are very powerful and losing 1.5 seconds of Seraphim because of the GCD really makes using 2 SOTR charges hurt.
    LOTP/HOTP - With these being on the GCD it is making our rotation not as much fun as in legion. And this is not because of haste as I copied my paladin from live with 40+% haste and its still not right. Currently the GCD causes you to play your rotation slower when you think you might need it which hurts DPS, Grand Crusader procs and Judgement Procs. Also this is a reactive heal as its worthless to cast prior to damage coming in like a normal defensive CD. So there is no way you could know if you might not block a hit a go to 20% life and need to either heal, this is where doing your rotation could kill you, if its on GCD and AD is down your most likely dead


I wanted to elaborate a bit more on the LOTP/HOTP issues as I have been leveling up more and also done some PVP. As it is right now it seems that the scaling for this heal is a bit off.

I have a total of 89K with an iLVL of 275 equiped. When at a low HP 10-20K this heal will do about 20-30k and bring you up to half or below and with a crit near the top end of full. However in my opinion it would work much better to remove the chance for it to crit and have the scaling better as a CRIT is random and cannot be counted on.

After a few PVP fights with other tanks on the Horde side (Guardian Druid and DK with similar levels 118 and 119) it seems our heal is not in line with theirs. I would be able to DPS them down to half HP and they would just heal to full. I could not keep up with this as my heal would barley do anything as I got low and eventually I would die, not to mention with it being on the GCD I had to stop my rotation to use it. These are just my experiences so far.
Consecrated Ground buffed. But what about Ret Aura? :/
+1 For Mobile Consecration again. This would help in dungeons, although with the lowered CD to Consecration, its not as big a deal as it was before.

Doesnt need to be said, but will say it again. Remove LoTP/HoTP from the GCD.. just do it... please.... If you are going to keep LoTP/HoTP on the GCD, then add the HoT effect from our Artifact to it, and buff it a bit, since it seems you no longer want this to be a reactionary ability anymore.

Also, I think there needs to be an effect added from baseline to Avengers Shield. From Legion we got used to the absorb effect from our Artifact, and a lot of the "Gold Dragon" abilities that other classes got, was rolled into baseline effects. Prot Paladins havent had that luxury it seems. I would recommend

Add the % of damage = absorb shield as baseline to Avengers Shield

Add the thorns damage effect to baseline Ardent Defender. The thorns damage can be a passive way to help maintain AOE threat, and also is a nice little help in PVP as well.

Replace Aegis of Light. Its a talent that is completely wasted, and effectively makes that row a 2 talent row.

My idea... replace Aegis of Light with a CD Devotion Aura or call it Sanctity Aura. Make it a ranged area effect damage reduction, all players within X amount of yards take x% reduced damage on a 3 or 5 Minute CD. It keeps the class fantasy, and gives us a raid wide CD similar to Warriors have with their shouts.

Just a few thoughts.
Mechanically I've over the moon with the changes to prot,
However visually I really want a glyph to replace my Seraphim hammer to a sword...
I really dislike using a "CD/Powerup" and my Sword becomes a mallet.

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