BFA Alpha Megathread 3: The ReMegathreading

Wyrmrest Accord
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I have no strong feelings one way or the other about GCD stuff.

As long as Outlaw is enjoyable to play and does decently, I could care less if they made it so that you can only activate this special ability once the blue moon rises and the planets align.

That said, I wonder how long it'll be until they nerf assassination back into the ground due to the Haste changes.
04/25/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Wolf
I have no strong feelings one way or the other about GCD stuff.

As long as Outlaw is enjoyable to play and does decently, I could care less if they made it so that you can only activate this special ability once the blue moon rises and the planets align.

That said, I wonder how long it'll be until they nerf assassination back into the ground due to the Haste changes.


Yeah, Assassin feels really good, and the new Mastery (poison AND bleeds) plus Haste affecting physical dots? I worry a little, it's gonna be a monster if nothing changes (I still can't believe Iron Wire is unchanged).

Outlaw is also enjoyable, Blade Rush is strong and the Energy regen helps quite a lot. CP gen is a little slower, and I kinda wish Greed was still around, but the new Blade Flurry is a real winner, at least.
04/25/2018 11:38 PMPosted by Sideswipe
04/25/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Wolf
I have no strong feelings one way or the other about GCD stuff.

As long as Outlaw is enjoyable to play and does decently, I could care less if they made it so that you can only activate this special ability once the blue moon rises and the planets align.

That said, I wonder how long it'll be until they nerf assassination back into the ground due to the Haste changes.


Yeah, Assassin feels really good, and the new Mastery (poison AND bleeds) plus Haste affecting physical dots? I worry a little, it's gonna be a monster if nothing changes (I still can't believe Iron Wire is unchanged).

Outlaw is also enjoyable, Blade Rush is strong and the Energy regen helps quite a lot. CP gen is a little slower, and I kinda wish Greed was still around, but the new Blade Flurry is a real winner, at least.


Yeah I knew the Blade Flurry changes were going to be solid. I am looking forward to Blade Rush, and playing my Outlaw spec again. CP generation honestly felt super spammy this expac so I don't mind it being slower, honestly, since managing CP should be done anyways.

As far as Assassination goes, I personally don't think it's current iteration is going to make it to live. I smell a nerf with how people have been telling me on how it plays.

Otherwise, it's gonna get the normal treatment of being broken for like a patch or two and then GARBAGE for the rest of the expansion due to nerfs.
Assassination has felt pretty good for all of Legion, imo. Exsang was stupid broken in EN and needed a nerf. Hopefully it'll stay about where it is right now in BfA as it doesn't feel overly powerful.

I'm still torn between Outlaw/Sin, Demo lock and Surv Hunter though, they're all a lot of fun.
I wish I had Beta. I'm still not sure who to main, and with all these sweeping changes, my decision feels really up in the air. Would be nice to test things for myself, so I do appreciate people who are in there talking about how they're feeling.

I also need to finish leveling my Warlock, and level a Rogue and (maybe) a Shaman. That way I'll have everything at 110, and can just pick whatever.
GCD Changes

  • Why would we ever make a change that people don't like or doesn't feel good? The team knows the initial reaction would be negative. At the end of the day, they want everyone to enjoy the game and it to feel good.
  • This change was made for the long term health of the game.
  • This isn't a change the team is going to make and then walk away from. There is further modification that has to be done to classes after this.
  • Feedback about what feels bad about your spec after the GCD changes is helpful. Asking to revert the change because it is bad isn't helpful.
  • Next year this is one of those things that will show up on the April Fool's patch notes where Blizzard will not-so-subtly mock the players under the guise of haha it's just a joke.

    edit: no plans for high elves in the future, so rip to you guys who wanted them

    double edit: someone asked about their faction (the Horde) being evil and Ion just gave very... well, responses like you'd expect from the story forums. It's perspective! Bad things happen in war. Maybe both sides are evil?? The Alliance should worry about this too!

    "Both sides should be worried about this! Azeroth is a world of grey, it's never been black or white."

    please.
    Guys it's such a grey area, Sylvanas is raising mindless undead and handing out ALL WILL SERVE ME pamphlets, and Anduin is totally uh

    wearing armor now.

    GREY AREAS, WAR IS HELL
    Both sides are evil

    Anduin uhhh

    Left a text on read once and he felt horrible for a month (but that's okay, leaving a text on read actually saved Azeroth from a world ending threat so he was justified)
    the alliance is evil because we refuse to acknowledge that mindless slaughter is an important part of horde culture and refusing to lie down and let them kill/enslave us is actually harassment
    I've already talked about this on twitter, but the response to the "Is the Horde evil" question really highlights the bizarre cynicism under which Warcraft's story operates.

    People can do evil things for good, or at least neutral, reasons. That doesn't make them not evil, or make the things they do not bad. Hazzikostas's response come so perilously close to the point - that nations often do horrible things to protect their own interests - but it doesn't own that, so it comes off as implying that the whole "let's invade foreign lands, slaughter their people, and raise them as servants" is just sort of mean, rather than horrific.

    I think that, on some level, it's the job of creators to think about what their works, "pulp fantasy" or not, are saying. The inability of the WoW team to do that is a little alarming.
    That reads like a non-answer to me, in the same vein as the non-answer given when the Alliance asked why they always have to be the passive faction.

    And then we got a robot cat.
    the real alliance "fist pump moment" is being able to roleplay characters with nuanced morality rather than being locked into chaotic evil or passive evil
    04/26/2018 01:58 PMPosted by Kazimir
    the real alliance "fist pump moment" is being able to roleplay characters with nuanced morality rather than being locked into chaotic evil or passive evil


    Or, at the very least, having a motivation that's not inextricably obsessed with the other faction.
    04/26/2018 11:18 AMPosted by Baenura
    edit: no plans for high elves in the future, so rip to you guys who wanted them


    "There's no clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group that remains in Azeroth..."

    *Gestures towards the Silver Covenant, who have been relevant in Wrath, Mists of Pandaren (Under the name Kirin Tor Offensive), and Legion*

    "If you want to play as a fair skinned elf, the Horde is there waiting for you."

    Yes, because Fel Crystals all over the capital city, the totalitarian regime, and the casual genocide are EXACTLY what I want.

    Figures Void Elves are the consolation prize. Ah well. *Continues grinding AR rep*
    Blizzard's aversion to playable high elves is really baffling. Every explanation they've given for it is just pants-on-head nonsense. For a long time I figured there must be some real justification which for whatever reason they didn't feel able to reveal, and so gave transparent excuses. At this point, though, I've come to think it's just that they've dug their heels in on it for so long they're unwilling to lose face by changing their minds.

    I would honestly respect the devs more if they'd come out and say "you know what, it's our game, this is the silly hill we've planted our flag on, that's what we're doing, deal with it." I'm a creator myself; I respect that approach. But the obviously vapid excuses are just weird and increasingly sad.
    As I said on a topic in General:

    Blizzard's the one leaving money lying on the table. It's their decision to make - it's a bad decision, but it's their decision.

    I'd rather be a High Elf, but if the Void Elf is going to be relegated to consolation prize status, then I'll take it. Even though that's a pretty damning statement of a Allied Race when it's relegated to "consolation prize".

    At the same time, using Ion's own logic the Nightborne shouldn't be part of the Horde. If you want to play as a purple skinned elf, then the Alliance is there waiting for you.
    04/26/2018 03:37 PMPosted by Goldwing
    using Ion's own logic the Nightborne shouldn't be part of the Horde.


    Using any logic. I know we've argued that one till we're all sick of it so I won't get into it further, but it illustrates the core problem of Blizzard's storytelling: events do not flow naturally from other events. They decide what they're going to do, usually based on Rule of Cool, and then jam it into the existing lore using whatever means are necessary, usually resulting in characters (and civilizations!) acting wildly out of character, not uncommonly resorting to outright retcons.

    A certain amount of this is inevitable in a video game; for all but a very few heavily atmospheric games (which do not include MMOs), there always comes a point where game mechanics have to come before story. Blizzard consistently takes this way, way too far, in my opinion.

    A good story grows organically; it is a series of steps which build upon what came before, proceeding logically according to established rules and facts and characterizations, and the constant branching out from this is what creates deep, complex mythic universes. A story built of stuff randomly thrown in based on whatever idea the creator happened to have that morning before coffee is not going to end up being a good story.

    A cool story, maybe, or a fun one. But not a good one.

    But hey, I still get to hit bandits with my awesome glowing hammer and get a dopamine fix from watching my numbers steadily go up. I guess it does what it needs to. I can't help feeling regretful of all the potential the Warcraft universe has, and how squandered it so often is on comic book logic.

    ...wow that turned into more of a rant than I'd intended. Imma just go back to playing the Talos Principle for a while.
    As I just got through trying to explain to someone who was legitimately confused at the frustration over the decision:

    It'd be like if the Horde never got playable Goblins. If they'd gotten Hobgoblins instead, but the Zeppelin updates still included a Goblin crew. Gallywix was still introduced as a major narrative player. And then BfA comes around and Ion says that Goblins and Gnomes are essentially the same thing and there's no real organization of Goblins in the world and if people want to play as the diminutive genius type they should roll Gnome.


    But that's the last I'll really say on the matter because ultimately, ranting about it isn't going to suddenly reverse the decision and I'm old enough to remember when the Alliance would NEVER get Shaman. The Horde would NEVER get Paladins. Humans would NEVER be Hunters. Blood Elves would NEVER be Warriors.

    I'm more concerned about how the Personal Loot system is now "Loot". It gimps the prospects of farming old content for cash, though I fully admit as a Hunter me being concerned about personalized loot is traditionally seen as the system working as intended.
    Remember that for old content there is going to be a "legacy loot mode" option or something to that effect.

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