Mistweaver Monk Feedback

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Yes charges for Renewing Mist pls! <3 And I still don't get the purpose of Uplifting Trance. It's frustrating if you don't get a proc in situations where you need it and it is also frustrating if it overwrites itself or runs out in situations where you don't need it.

It just creates frustrating gameplay which is completely dependent on rng.

It would be nice if a dev could explain us why they think that Uplifting Trance is a good mechanic.
I think the base healing from Vivify could be brought up, and Uplifting Trance could work as a clearcasting proc instead of a healing bonus (perhaps 50% reduced mana cost instead of 100%, since it is essentially a raid heal in the right situation). This would then leave them to change how it interacts with Thunder Focus Tea, maybe having it increase current Renewing Mist duration, or increasing the healing it does to secondary targets.

Waiting for a proc as DPS is irritating as is, and even moreso, not having one as a healer when its sorely needed can be maddening. With that in mind, having a clearcasting proc rather than a bonus healing proc could help smooth out that issue.
06/06/2018 04:39 AMPosted by Rasah
I think the base healing from Vivify could be brought up, and Uplifting Trance could work as a clearcasting proc instead of a healing bonus (perhaps 50% reduced mana cost instead of 100%, since it is essentially a raid heal in the right situation). This would then leave them to change how it interacts with Thunder Focus Tea, maybe having it increase current Renewing Mist duration, or increasing the healing it does to secondary targets.

THIS! As for the TFT interaction I feel swapping the bonus effect of Enveloping MIst and Vivify would fix some awkward issues:

TFT:
-Your next Enveloping Mist cast costs no mana.
-Your next Vivify heals your primary target for an extra mount.

That paired with an extra charge on Renewing Mist would make the spec feel very solid.

There are 3 things I consider do drain power away from the spec's group healing:

-Uplifting Trance: As a healer I got to say it feels better to have utility procs, rather than throughput procs, and while Uplifting trance "worked" on Legion's vivfy, in BFA it makes our non-proc Vivifies feel to weak. A quick fix would be turning it into a clearcasting buff, as suggested by others, or completely removing it, while increasing the baseline power of Vivify.

-Mastery: Gust of Mists: It drains power away from our group healing, it is it's own entity, it doesn't affect the rest of our healing (only spell casts), it is single target.
I think the mastery would work much better as a talent, to fulfil the single target healing niche in place of statue, while making statue baseline and giving us a new mastery that directly interacts with a wide range of our spells.

-Essence Font: This is by far the worst thing added to MW in legion, and the spell I disliked the most. It felt like a quick band-aid to fulfill the role uplift used to have, but the lack of interaction/dependencies with other spells paired with the power of the spell itself turned it into an incredibly boring 1 key wonder. The HoT double mastery buff becomes yet another problematic aspect of the spell, trying to provide some interaction but feeling twice as bad as our mastery. It just doesn't feel like it belongs to the spec.

Turning/Reworking it into a spell that feels more engaging and less of a "Cast EF and close your eyes for ~2.5secs" spell would make it really feel part of our spec.

I'm feeling very happy overall with the direction MW is taking in BFA and I'm really looking forward to see Blizzard giving the spec all the love it deserves.

I would really like to see the opinion of other MW regarding EF, specially those that healed during MoP/WoD. How do you guys feel about the spell?
So here's my 2 cents.

I think the way MW is right now is okay by the product of number tuning, we have an over-tuned amount of throughput, and I think once they do a tuning patch, we'll get hit.


Why do I feel that way?

  • Vivify's functionality with the RNG of ReM is clunky and unreliable as a group heal, and the only other option we have is EF, which in it's current state is laughable in 5 mans. RNG of a core functionality does not make for fun gameplay. Imagine having to do a mythic+ boss again because your ReM didn't happen to land on the right target and you ended up wiping because of it, for example.
  • EF - I touched on that above, it doesn't work well with it's current amount of healing done in 5 mans.
  • ReM not having charges and taking away the old TFT functionality regarding ReM feels very bad, especially with the RNG state that our group healing becomes with the new Vivify. I feel like I have to constantly be casting ReM, even if it doesn't make sense to at that point, or even outside of combat (lol drinking? forget it) to keep 3 of them up, so that my Vivify doesn't feel useless.


  • What, in my opinion, do I think will help?

  • ReM charges - I think this has been said before numerous times and is one of the better things to do, especially if Blizz likes it's current iteration of TFT.
  • TFT change - If charges on ReM isn't something they want to pursue, then give us the old functionality of TFT regarding ReM back.
  • All in all, we need to be able to have more control over our new lord and savior RNG-Vivify.

  • Revert Vivify - This is going a bit backwards, but the old Vivify, that didn't rely on me constantly casting ReM on people as a maintenance spell, felt really good. I wouldn't even be sad if they reverted it and said, you can no longer insta-cast while channeling SooM.
  • Uplifting Trace - I agree with Ernecius on this one:
    06/06/2018 07:04 AMPosted by Ernecius
    As a healer I got to say it feels better to have utility procs, rather than throughput procs, and while Uplifting trance "worked" on Legion's vivfy, in BFA it makes our non-proc Vivifies feel to weak. A quick fix would be turning it into a clearcasting buff, as suggested by others, or completely removing it, while increasing the baseline power of Vivify.

  • So in short, right now sure MW feels "okay" but this is purely due to numbers, we can throughput heal like the best of them right now, but if you get right down to core functionality, it feels clunky and way too RNG based.
    Noxaura, I agree with you and hope your suggested changes come to life. Not entirely sure that reverting Vivify to how it is on live would be the best move, but I definitely think it would be better than current beta Vivify.

    I think your proposed ReM changes are exactly what mistweavers need. It is seemingly the biggest flaw of the spec and it looks as if many others agree.
    I really hope they're listening to us, the spec seems pretty close to being real good.
    06/06/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Drüso
    I really hope they're listening to us, the spec seems pretty close to being real good.

    Agreed, but lately I'm not holding my breath until I see a blue post before a beta build. That seems to be the indication that a spec has been worked on. Granted the Upwelling and Rising Mist build came out of no where.
    no renewing mist changes in this new build

    feelsbadman
    06/07/2018 01:41 PMPosted by Tjphess
    no renewing mist changes in this new build

    feelsbadman


    Yeah I was really hoping to see a change. We still have plenty of time left in Beta though
    I am hoping for a change in ReM as well. I wish we could get a Blue post to see if it's even something they're considering testing. I am fine if they're still gathering numbers and seeing how the current MW is working.

    Some form of communication would be great, as a lot of us MWs have been asking for this change and providing quality and constructive feedback as to why this change should at the very least be tested.
    Do I use ReM on CD and lose Gusts healing to overheal or do I use ReM when the healing is needed but lose Vivify healing?

    Do I channel EF fully and lose Vivify casting time for double Gusts or stop channeling and lose EF healing?

    Do I pre-cast the Enveloping so the 30/40% healing buff is up when the spike damage occurs and lose the Gusts heal or do I cast it as the damage is going out and lose casting time when the damage is going out but gain Gusts?

    Do I stack Mastery for Gusts healing in M+ but lose out on AoE healing from Vivify, Revival, ReM and EF or do I stack Crit/Vers/Haste and lose out on spot healing strength with Gusts?

    The fact that the MW toolkit is nothing more than a choice between what I'm losing is garbage.

    Spell and gear selection should be about I want to emphasize or prioritize. That means being able to everything decently well and then do one thing really well. As it stands MW is more like do 1 thing well but do everything else badly.

    Oh no I used EF and TFT Enveloping to heal on the move but now I have zero ability to AoE heal for X seconds or react to ST spot healing for X seconds. It's the same problems MW had with Chi back in early WoD where we could only ST heal or AoE heal but couldn't do both or switch between both quickly except now it's baked into the abilities of the spec rather than a Chi system. Yay.

    MW toolkit at the moment also seems like it's good at dealing with nothing. It's a good healer when mana isn't an issue and movement isn't an issue and you can press the buttons as you please. However once movement is required or ST healing as well as AoE healing or healing on 2 targets or healing for prolonged fights where mana becomes an issue is required, MW feels lacking. Just feels like a repeat of the MW problems on Live tbh. Can do everything kind of well but other healers do everything better for M+ at least.

    Oh no quaking is coming and someone is on 10% HP but ReM is on CD? They're dead :). Or someone is dying during downdraft on Dressaron or some other movement + damage mechanic and I've already EF'd and TFT'd this downdraft after EF + Revivaled the last one? That person is dead because MW has zero buttons to deal with that mechanic after those limited buttons have been pressed. Other healers always have something to press yet most of the time MW has either ReM + Gusts or TFT. Those two abilities are not powerful enough to warrant the limitations they have given they're the only buttons MW has for dealing with repeated movement+damage mechanics for example.

    EDIT:
    To break it down another way:
    MW has 3 mechanics for AoE healing in M+
    1. Revival
    2. EF
    3. Vivify

    Revival has a 3m CD.
    EF doesn't do any appreciable healing.
    Vivify requires turret casting.

    What does MW do when a quaking mechanic coincides with AoE damage? Or movement is required with AoE healing?

    Or another way:
    Blizzard felt it necessary to make Uplift instant cast but when that mechanic was brought back felt that it needed a cast time and capped at 3 targets. Why?
    I would like it if perhaps Mystic Touch were to be implemented into something akin to an aura system for Mistweaver.

    If you are the only monk in your raid/party it falls on you to tag damage all mobs in order to provide this benefit to your raid/party. However as a healer this isn't always something I'm incentivised or wanting to do with every add or mob that spawns or on every trash pull. This seem like an unfortunate oversight that will instead have groups preferring Brewmasters and Windwalkers over Mistweavers for Mythic Touch application.
    06/08/2018 01:29 AMPosted by Syandrís
    I would like it if perhaps Mystic Touch were to be implemented into something akin to an aura system for Mistweaver.

    If you are the only monk in your raid/party it falls on you to tag damage all mobs in order to provide this benefit to your raid/party. However as a healer this isn't always something I'm incentivised or wanting to do with every add or mob that spawns or on every trash pull. This seem like an unfortunate oversight that will instead have groups preferring Brewmasters and Windwalkers over Mistweavers for Mythic Touch application.


    That, or at least remove the 1min duration, make it last till the mob is dead. Not only makes us have to apply it, but make sure it stays up ..
    06/08/2018 01:25 PMPosted by Drüso
    06/08/2018 01:29 AMPosted by Syandrís
    I would like it if perhaps Mystic Touch were to be implemented into something akin to an aura system for Mistweaver.

    If you are the only monk in your raid/party it falls on you to tag damage all mobs in order to provide this benefit to your raid/party. However as a healer this isn't always something I'm incentivised or wanting to do with every add or mob that spawns or on every trash pull. This seem like an unfortunate oversight that will instead have groups preferring Brewmasters and Windwalkers over Mistweavers for Mythic Touch application.


    That, or at least remove the 1min duration, make it last till the mob is dead. Not only makes us have to apply it, but make sure it stays up ..


    While this would be nice and convenenient, and a decent quality of life change overall, I can't help but direct attention back to the one glaring issue with spec - that being the way renewing mist functions with thunder focus tea. Having the ability to throw out multiple renewing mists in quick succession felt crucial, and with how the new vivify works, I am scared for our group healing once mistweaver throughput is looked at.
    I think the application of Mystic Touch works fine in dungeons once you get used to weaving in SCK, however despite the 1% mana cost being very small that will add up a lot on any sort of add fight. Taloc and Zek'voz are two in particular that it will feel more punishing than good to have to apply Mystic Touch to everything. It has no cost at all for BrM and WW who actually want to apply Mystic Touch and want to be doing damage to adds, so I'd like to see the mana cost of SCK removed or at least make CJL apply it to everything in an AoE around it. Just don't make me have to spend mana to use something like Mystic Touch, it feels silly.

    Not to beat a dead horse but FT is getting worse every week. I can kind of see why TFT-ENM may have been too powerful, but the collateral damage of altering TFT so much has lead to a dead at talent at this point. Seeing as one of the major design goals of BFA was talent relevancy, it would be nice if FT was either replaced, reworked, or buffed somehow to actually be useful and not out-shined by its competition on the row everywhere.
    Mw would feel a ton better if effuse came back and vivify worked like in legion IMO
    lol
    Next build will try 2 charges on Renewing Mist, and Uplifting Trance removed.

    A little background for interest:
    We try to be really careful about adding charges to baseline spells, since it's a higher-complexity mechanic than simply having a cooldown. Essentially every spell is slightly more efficient with charges, since you don't get the little bit of slippage when the cooldown comes up each time, and you can better sync it with other effects. So it's always an attractive ask, because adding charges to anything improves spec performance. Renewing Mist is a better case due to bad feeling of every second lost slightly reducing Vivify efficiency for 20s, and this also helps the weirdness of wanting to start ramping it up 20s before any pull.

    Uplifting Trance was added in Legion to try to give something that enforced a little more spell variance (pushing Vivify to top priority sometimes and not other times). By now, there are so many more spell interactions contributing to the "weaving" part of Mistweaving (Essence Font buffs other spells, Soothing Mist empowers other spells, Renewing Mist improves Vivify, etc.) that button choice is richer without sticking a proc in there. Since other things control when you want to use Vivify, this just feels like random variance that you can't control.
    06/08/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Mêphiston
    Mw would feel a ton better if effuse came back and vivify worked like in legion IMO


    I hope you're being sarcastic.

    "Feeling" wise, the removal of effuse and the return of our real Soothing Mist has been the best thing to happen to MW since legion was released.

    I think that what we're all expecting now is some word from blizzard about the direction they're taking with our MW, which so far looks very promising.

    Edit: Aaaand we got what we wanted to see as I typed this :)
    Sigma the god

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