Mistweaver Monk Feedback

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Solid changes for this new build, Vivify is now back on the menu, and TFT-RSK will feel great with RM. Also a revival buff at last.

The rest of the changes, notably the lifecycles buff and soom change, basically makes MW the absolute king of single target healer. TFT-Evm is basically a LoH now which is nice.

My only concern is the possible situation where we'd previously just use TFT (with FT) and throw out 3 rems quickly to pump out more viv's healing no longer being possible, but with the cleave now doing relevant healing again, it probably won't be an issue.

Excited to try these once the servers are back online.
I mostly pvp and just recently discovered the magic that is Fistweaving. But I'm kinda bummed out it looks like they totally wrecked Fistweaving in a pvp. Losing Rising Thunder is huge, unless I'm missing something. Instead of being able to play a support type character in the action, if we get to keep WotC, I feel like we have to go back to sitting back being a heal bot again, with short bursts of jumping in melee range instead of mostly being in the action with short periods of hard casting if things get out of hand. Speaking strictly from a Rbg stand point.

I'd love from other fistweavers though, I'm trying to not jump to negativity.
I guess that's a good compromise on Soothing Mist, randomly triggering mastery. I wonder if they already had plans or it was my feedback lol, we'll never know.

Now, I really am still not sure about mana tea and spirit of the crane on the same row.. maybe I need to finish leveling on beta, but those are pretty mandatory to not be completely oom on live servers.

I wonder why TFT/EF is gone though, I know it was not used much, but could be useful to avoid getting sniped on burst healing.. I see no value in removing it.

Very curious to see how viable rising mist will be with TFT-RSK.

Now, still waiting for Renewing Mist to have charges (pool of mist from WOD), to give us more control over Vivify and I'll be happy. Pressing a hot on CD is a bit boring isn't it?
Something I just noticed while testing the new soothing mist proccing mastery is the tooltip says the mana cost is 80 per second. Since the channel time goes down as we get more haste, this seems to mean the more haste we have the cheaper this spell becomes. So if you were to heal 360% spellpower in 8 seconds it costs 640 mana. If you heal the 360% spellpower in 6 seconds it now costs 480 mana. I wonder if it's actually per second or per tick, will need to test this later.
05/08/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Kotanzen
I wonder if it's actually per second or per tick, will need to test this later.


it's per tick

05/08/2018 09:10 PMPosted by Karuzo

Now, I really am still not sure about mana tea and spirit of the crane on the same row.. maybe I need to finish leveling on beta, but those are pretty mandatory to not be completely oom on live servers.

I wonder why TFT/EF is gone though, I know it was not used much, but could be useful to avoid getting sniped on burst healing.. I see no value in removing it.

Very curious to see how viable rising mist will be with TFT-RSK.

Now, still waiting for Renewing Mist to have charges (pool of mist from WOD), to give us more control over Vivify and I'll be happy. Pressing a hot on CD is a bit boring isn't it?


The only mana issues you could have at this point is probably if you use Evm too much, Viv's cost reduction that came with our first changes, and now that vivify is a good spell again with this build, it's a really good spell to dump mana on, when the healing is needed.

TFT-EF was really only useful to get Upwelling's EF out faster, outside of UW tft-ef was never used, literally never, it had 0 benefit and was a complete waste of a TFT use.

TFT-rsk on the other hand... you either use it to deal more damage (very unlikely to do so, but it's a benefit nonetheless), or to quickly proc RM twice in a row, maybe a third time if you get lucky with a reset after the first 2 RSKs.

Don't expect ReM to get charges back, RSK was removed from the charge system (even if it was only one charge, it was on it for some reasons) as of this build, implying that the devs aren't planning to make this happens.

New TFT-ReM just means you'll have to be proactive with this use of TFT, especially in M+, instead of reactively throw 2-3 rems at once and spamming vivify when !@#$ happens.
it's per tick


Yeah, unfortunately it does seem to be per tick and not per second as the tooltip indicates. I also tested the gust of mists procs on soothing mist and I'm getting precisely 1 proc every full channel. I don't believe the tooltip is correct on this either. I believe it's randomizing which tick you receive the proc on, but you always get 1 and only 1 per full channel. It seems to be neither a stacking chance nor a limited, but high value chance because the procs don't seem to occur at the end or beginning of the channel anymore often than the other.
Ive had full channels of Soothing proc 0 Gusts but haven't had one proc 2 yet.

The best effect it's had in the few dungeons i've done is that it can help topping someone you're channeling soothing on and spamming vivifies into for group healing resulting in the ReM on that target jumping sooner.

What i'd REALLY like to see is for the gusts proc to become a smart heal though.

Channeling soothing into a tank or priority target while getting some help with spot healing from the Gusts sounds like a really really really nice quality of life bonus for MW.
I will really miss the feeling of TFT+ReM to throw out multiple hots in quick succession. For me, this recent change to TFT made the spec a little less fun for me. I enjoyed the fast pace and option to apply a few hots in certain situations. Would love it if there was a way to get another charge of ReM, or if TFT worked as it used to with ReM.
I'm not a fan of the random Gust of Mists proc on Soothing Mist. It's good that Blizzard recognizes the awkwardness of Soothing Mist having no connection to Mistweaver's mastery, but this solution (which probably is mathematically sound) is meaningless in terms of gameplay. It's especially problematic because it doesn't play well with Essence Font (the random proc might decide to land when it'll be doubled, or it might not).

Better solutions:
  • Forget trying to shoehorn a direct Gust of Mists interaction and just make Mistweaver Mastery increase the healing of Soothing Mist by a % (SEE: Frost Mages and Frozen Orb).
  • Instead of making the proc random, make it a 100% chance with an internal cooldown of 8 seconds. Your average player won't notice or care, but skilled players will appreciate the control that comes with making it predictable and the resulting gameplay.
  • Bring back Effuse as a spell which can only be cast while channeling Soothing Mist. All it does is proc Gust of Mists. Make it super cheap but give it a cooldown.
05/09/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Sutiru
I'm not a fan of the random Gust of Mists proc on Soothing Mist. It's good that Blizzard recognizes the awkwardness of Soothing Mist having no connection to Mistweaver's mastery, but this solution (which probably is mathematically sound) is meaningless in terms of gameplay. It's especially problematic because it doesn't play well with Essence Font (the random proc might decide to land when it'll be doubled, or it might not).

Better solutions:
  • Forget trying to shoehorn a direct Gust of Mists interaction and just make Mistweaver Mastery increase the healing of Soothing Mist by a % (SEE: Frost Mages and Frozen Orb).
  • Instead of making the proc random, make it a 100% chance with an internal cooldown of 8 seconds. Your average player won't notice or care, but skilled players will appreciate the control that comes with making it predictable and the resulting gameplay.
  • Bring back Effuse as a spell which can only be cast while channeling Soothing Mist. All it does is proc Gust of Mists. Make it super cheap but give it a cooldown.


I feel like making a 1/8th strength gust proc every tick is the best option since it has zero RNG and is completely reliable. It has the same basic overall healing as the current option which gives you about 1 proc per full channel, but just increases the healing of SooM constantly instead of unreliable procs that may come at a useful time, or not.

If you have an internal CD that means you now need a weakaura to track that CD and you might want to stop channeling just before it hits, swap to a target that needs more healing, let it proc, switch again. If it was just a 100% proc at a lower strength every tick (or the direct % increase of SooM you suggest) then it's just completely reliable all the time and you don't have to care about a hidden CD or RNG.

Just increasing the % of SooM would be just as useful, though you couldn't track its effect separately in the combat log as you could if it gave a partial/reduced gust proc every tick.

05/09/2018 02:15 AMPosted by Ryfe
Ive had full channels of Soothing proc 0 Gusts but haven't had one proc 2 yet.

The best effect it's had in the few dungeons i've done is that it can help topping someone you're channeling soothing on and spamming vivifies into for group healing resulting in the ReM on that target jumping sooner.

What i'd REALLY like to see is for the gusts proc to become a smart heal though.

Channeling soothing into a tank or priority target while getting some help with spot healing from the Gusts sounds like a really really really nice quality of life bonus for MW.


I think it would be a good idea but I doubt they'd do it just because they've been anti-smart heal for so long.

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I also just want to mention that I still hate life cycles. Buffing its % doesn't really change the fact that it's a clunky awkward mechanic. You could eventually make it so strong that you just take it because it's strength outweighs the awkwardness of the mechanic that makes very little sense, but it will still be a bad mechanic.

You have 15 seconds after casting one ability to cast the other to get an effect. If a tank needs extra healing you might take advantage of this a little bit. When else is alternating between these spells a natural occurrence? EM is expensive even with a life cycles proc up. You don't just throw it around like a rejuv. Even on a tank you'll only get 2-3 procs out of it each time you need it.

You need twice as many procs of this as casts during mana tea during a fight in order for it to compete. SotC returns 1.95% mana for 4 GCDs (and you spend no mana during those GCDs). Life Cycles saves you 1.3% or 0.8% (but you're spending quite a bit more mana while getting those procs). You also will simply ignore the buff half the time it's up unless you want to spend mana you didn't really need to spend.

I think it should just be re-designed or replaced. SotC fits into a melee playstyle well. Life Cycles should fit into a ranged playstyle well. It currently doesn't.
Lifecycles is good when you want to cast spells you use a lot in 5 mans, which is where you will ever use Lifecycles anyway, unless a niche raid boss fits this talent too well, anything can happen.

next thing i think devs should look at is UT, as already said by many previously in this thread, a big 40% buff to a spell that is based purely on RNG just feels terrible. casting the spell outside of this proc has little reward.
I'm really enjoying the MW changes. The changes to Soothing Mist give a combo feeling to the playstyle that was missing in Legion and there are a good number of choices in the talents.
05/09/2018 12:56 AMPosted by Kotanzen
I don't believe the tooltip is correct on this either. I believe it's randomizing which tick you receive the proc on, but you always get 1 and only 1 per full channel.

Yeah, definitely seems to be on a deck system.
Interestingly (and probably useless) the gust proc seems to resolve before the Soothing tick it activates on.

EDIT: Definitely a deck system, managed to force 2 gust procs on a single SooM by cancelling a SooM channel after three ticks
Overall Mistweaver is feeling VASTLY superior to its Legion iteration for me.

I personally miss the TFT-REM interaction.

I do like the RSK and EnvM TFT interactions that were added.

I liked TFT-EF for Upwelling, the talent feels hard to use in 5 mans, and will likely never be picked for m+.

Uplifting Trance being such a huge throughput gain and COMPLETELY uncontrollable still feels horrible.

Did you guys somehow break BoK resetting RSK with the tooltip changes this build? Haven't seen a reset all day.

I may be one of the few who preferred the previous talent configuration where I could take Diffuse and Dampen at the same time, since competing with Bear Form is impossible in terms of high m+ keys without a plethora of defensives to use against one shots.
oh yeah totm rsk reset mechanic is bugged since this build, it just never reset rsk
05/08/2018 11:54 PMPosted by Tjphess
ow that vivify is a good spell again with this build, it's a really good spell to dump mana on

Am I missing something? The only change I see is the increase from 45% to 60% on secondary targets. That's on the order of a 10-15% overall buff at best, and I'm not sure it's a buff at all if you were habitually using FT TFT with RM. If it wasn't a good spell in the last build, I'm pretty sure it's not a good spell in this build either.

(Don't get me wrong - I do think MW's overall gameplay is improved by not having to spam RM and by Viv hitting a bit harder on secondary targets. That makes Mistweaver a better spec. But it doesn't really make Vivify a better spell.)
05/09/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Zephyrs
The only change I see is the increase from 45% to 60% on secondary targets. That's on the order of a 10-15% overall buff at best

Assuming averaging 2 ReM's its actually a 16% buff, 3 ReMs is a 19% buff.

Preparation cost is really high because of the ReM cd, but it also should never fall under 3 active once the fight gets going if we keep at it.
05/09/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Ninh
Assuming averaging 2 ReM's its actually a 16% buff, 3 ReMs is a 19% buff.

Only if you have zero Mastery.

Edit: No, not even if you have zero Mastery. Only if you have about negative 575 Mastery.

05/09/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Ninh
Preparation cost is really high because of the ReM cd, but it also should never fall under 3 active once the fight gets going if we keep at it.


No, we only have 2 active about half the time if we're playing perfectly and never use TFT on RM. With an 8 second CD and a 20 second duration, you have 1 up from second 0 to 8, 2 from second 8 to 16, then 3 from 16-20, 2 from 20-24, 3 from 24-28, 2 from 28-32, and so on.

If you use TFT on RM as often as possible, you have 1 from 0-8, 2 from 8-16, 3 from 16-24, 4 from 24-28, 3 from 28-30, but you still drop to 2 active RMs from second 30-32, and that repeats at 62-64 etc. I admit 2 seconds out of every 32 is pretty trivial, but it's not 'never', and getting that result does require us to either take FT or only use TFT for RM.
I see why a change to TFT-ReM was needed but this iteration is so bad it won't be used at all.

Previously FT+TFT+ReM gave 3 ReM's and 3 Gusts which was especially useful for ReM blanketing and instant cast healing on the move. Losing a Gusts, half a ReM duration and a +1 ReM for Vivify with the new version is too weak to be worth using over Env/Viv/RSK.

It seems like the ReM jumping when overwriting change is in for this build which is nice. Without changing my healing style I almost always have 3 ReM's up now even when overwriting a ReM on the tank for a Gusts heal. The TFT-ReM change makes me weary of MW viability in M+ when group wide healing is needed though. Having Vivify be hard capped at 3 ReM's is going to be sketchy if BfA has similar healing patterns in M+ to Legion.

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