Well, loot is dead

General Discussion
04/26/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Praying
04/26/2018 02:11 PMPosted by Xenlea
Personal Loot drops will still be tradeable in some fashion within the group. So, there won't be wasted loot.

only if your equipped item in that slot is a higher ilvl.
FAIL.


Yea, that ilvl bit is really the hardest part to take for me. I don't always want to take a piece that only gives me 5 ilvl, but not the stats I want. Should be able to give it away..

I guess they are hoping that the pull back on war/titanforging will make ilvl upgrades more meaningful, but I don't like not having the choice.. because sometimes I don't want the upgrade.
04/26/2018 02:11 PMPosted by Xenlea
Personal Loot drops will still be tradeable in some fashion within the group. So, there won't be wasted loot.


Its happened in Legion, why wouldn't it happen in BfA if the same rules are being applied?
Anything that drastically reduces the chances of loot manipulation such as DKP, loot council, etc, is a good thing. Even more so when it makes it far more difficult for people to pull ML scams.

And to counter the main counterpoint of "They'll make you trade your gear or they'll boot you!!!!" Well...if that's the case the pug or guild isn't worth being in.
04/26/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Praying

only if your equipped item in that slot is a higher ilvl.
FAIL.


It's not just the equipped item. If you've had ANY lower level item bound to you for that slot, even if it was complete garbage for you and you vendored it, you won't be able to trade anything higher than it.
04/26/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Schtevengi
Anything that drastically reduces the chances of loot manipulation such as DKP, loot council, etc, is a good thing. Even more so when it makes it far more difficult for people to pull ML scams.

And to counter the main counterpoint of "They'll make you trade your gear or they'll boot you!!!!" Well...if that's the case the pug or guild isn't worth being in.


Masterloot scams? What year do you think we're playing the game in?
As someone that plays much more casually, I like this idea. The whole "trial" period in mythic raiding sorta makes sense, but it still sorta sucks when you get to raid and get no loot at all because you "don't deserve it" in their eyes.

I don't always mythic raid and I alt hop a lot. so sometimes the guild doesn't need me on that class but im involved in another guild on another class. So I may raid with them instead. having someone with "seniority" over me causing me to not get loot for 3-4 weeks when I preform better than them is just annoying and a waste of time imo. also, being given MORE personal loot sounds nice.

All this said, I do wish we could trade more actively. If something is only a 1% upgrade for me and only 5 ilevels higher, but for someone else it's about 20 ilevels higher and a 15% upgrade since it has stats better for them, I'd prefer to give them the loot. However, I cannot.
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04/26/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Praying

only if your equipped item in that slot is a higher ilvl.
FAIL.


It's not just the equipped item.
You have a 930 item equipped, but last month, you got, and vendored a 940 that was trash for you, you won't be able to trade anything for the slot unless it's under 940, not 930
04/26/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Dralonis
As someone that plays much more casually, I like this idea. The whole "trial" period in mythic raiding sorta makes sense, but it still sorta sucks when you get to raid and get no loot at all because you "don't deserve it" in their eyes.

[/quote]

Fairness goes both ways though. Mostly the reason trials don't get gear is not that they do not deserve it, its that the folks that have been there for the wipes and the time required deserve it more.
04/26/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Kadirra
People will be very excited about personal loot until their guild demands they trade the piece they looted to someone else. Now people will likely have to give away what they gained. Basically, this means that you get the excitement of getting loot for you, and then you deal with pressure to give that to someone else. At least with Master Loot, you didn't get the shiny new item in your bag and it wasn't yours until given to you. Now? It'll have to be given up, likely, if guilds are still trying to manage their loot. It'll feel even worse for people.

Also, it forces someone (like that trial raider) to be put on the spot and have to choose between that awesome upgrade that is 'rightfully theirs in their bag' or their guild that demands they trade it to someone else. Even if they give it up, it's likely to leave a sour taste in someone's mouth and make the raiding effort feel 'bad' in general. Or they can just take their loot and refuse to give it up and get kicked from the raid and/or guild for their infraction, and not even get to finish what they started. And the guild loses out on a player that 'wouldn't cooperate' and give up what is theirs.

Do they really not see the 'negatives' of this forced change? Let people choose. Let guilds choose. And let players choose what kind of guild they want to be in (a personal loot friendly guild or a master looting guild ).

Taking away choice is usually the wrong choice.


Nope.

If any of the situations you just brought up actually came to happen, to me that would be a gigantic red flag alerting me to leave and leave quickly. Any raid leader/raiding team that takes on this kind of mentality towards handling loot is unhealthy and I'd be surprised if they survive past a single tier. So anybody who has to deal with something like that will likely be better off finding a better guild to raid in.
04/26/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Schtevengi
Anything that drastically reduces the chances of loot manipulation such as DKP, loot council, etc, is a good thing. Even more so when it makes it far more difficult for people to pull ML scams.

And to counter the main counterpoint of "They'll make you trade your gear or they'll boot you!!!!" Well...if that's the case the pug or guild isn't worth being in.


No, the real answer is that you're not worth having in the guild.
04/26/2018 03:00 PMPosted by Chillattas
04/26/2018 02:38 PMPosted by Dralonis
As someone that plays much more casually, I like this idea. The whole "trial" period in mythic raiding sorta makes sense, but it still sorta sucks when you get to raid and get no loot at all because you "don't deserve it" in their eyes.


Fairness goes both ways though. Mostly the reason trials don't get gear is not that they do not deserve it, its that the folks that have been there for the wipes and the time required deserve it more.


Not only this, but you run the risk of pulling trials who are gonna take the 3-5 pieces they won from the Loot Master(s) and then just up and leave one day. No words, no reason, they take the loot and leave to find a "better" guild. Had my run-ins with trash like that. That garbage is exactly why I'll disenchant a piece of gear any day over give it to a "trial".
But drop rate for loot is pretty low compeard to the other xpacs your chance of loot is all most nil
No, you are wrong.

This is the way we want loot.

Now I can group with strangers, that I don't care about, getting personal loot. I don't have to worry about stupid dated things like:

DKP.

Their buddies.

Some cousin.

Their girlfriends.
04/26/2018 12:13 PMPosted by Drlegend
Ion's justification in the Q&A is very upsetting.

It's if they have ignored all of the generous and detailed feedback (as requested) we have offered over the past few weeks/months and gone with an attitude of "this is our game, play it our way or not at all."

Coupled with the GCD changes, this does not bode well for the future of this game I love.


Ya'll are so melodramatic
They didn't like the idea that people could kill a boss and get nothing out of it because they are trialing for a guild and the guild has a rule that trials can't have loot and believe that anyone who killed a boss should have the chance to get something.

It seems fair to me if you helped kill something you should be able to get an item.
oh noes a new player to your raid might actually have a shot at loot from a boss he helped defeat the horror /sarcasm

Let me guess OP, you were close friends/member of the cliche of those who decided who got loot in your guild. So you never had to worry about not getting what you wanted.
Loot isn't dead...

You deserve the loot for killing the boss
=> guild or not guild.. trail or not.. it doesn't matter.

Trial players in a new guild may not get anything for weeks because that is the guild policy.
"But don't join if you don't like it?" nah.. everyone is forced to join a competitive guild if you want to kill mythic bosses... and almost 90% of the guilds uses masterloot.. so yes, you are forced to stay and agree regardless because you want to raid.

Group and Master Loot puts players at the mercy of others, often in ways that aren't fair.


Simple as that, sorry you cannot feel so special anymore by holding the loot or giving your friends/GFs in the guild the loot first while the poor trail is here to help.

Thanks for the awesome change blizzard.. looking forward for BFA <3
04/26/2018 10:41 PMPosted by Kybeorie
Now I can group with strangers, that I don't care about, getting personal loot.


You could already do this though. Just avoid it.

Now I will just DE good gear fellow guild members could have all because some people could not be bothered to ask about the loot system for the group they are joining...

"Oh that neck I just got warforged above what I currently have but it has mastery on it, a garbage stat for a frost mage. Well too bad Hunter friend I cannot give it to you."
04/26/2018 12:13 PMPosted by Drlegend
this is our game, play it our way or not at all.


That's how it works actually
04/26/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Praying
only if your equipped item in that slot is a higher ilvl.
FAIL.

Not quite.

Only if you've held on to a piece that is a higher ilvl. So, for example, let's say I beat a world boss in a PUG group and I get belt is ilvl 980 compared to my 920 but the stats are horrible so I decide I'm not going to equip it. Now because I got that gear in a world boss pug group, I don't really care to trade it to other people, so I just carry on, sell or DE the item and keep doing world quests and what not.

Next week I go into a raid with guild members and a piece of 960 belt drops. It's better than mine, but the stats are still horrible so I don't want to wear it. Because I had a piece of 980 loot bound to me in that slot, that slot is flagged with 980 being the highest ilvl, so even though my ilvl is 920, I am able to trade that 960 to someone else who needs it.

That's how the system is going to work. It calculates the highest ilvl you've obtained for each slot, and if you get lower than that, regardless of whether it is an upgrade over your current piece or not as far as ilvl is concerned, you can trade it.

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