No Faction Pride for Horde?

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04/21/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Sigrún
04/20/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Buffmage
Both sides are morally grey.

Alliance is light grey. Horde is dark grey, and moving closer to black thanks to their Lich Queen.


Sylvanas has never done anything wrong
I've just accepted that Horde is the heel faction at this point. Time and time again they've proved to err on the morally questionable, and Blizz seems to prefer it that way.
04/21/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Zudotek
I've just accepted that Horde is the heel faction at this point. Time and time again they've proved to err on the morally questionable, and Blizz seems to prefer it that way.


For me the question isn't the morality but the appeal to reason. Does it make sense to attack the Alliance?

At this point I'm not sure how the horde can hope to stand up to the Alliance. It's like poking a bear with a stick. I guess Sylvanus thought that Azerite would make it possible for the Horde to triumph.

If the story was that the horde thought they had to strike first and claim the Azerite before the alliance or else the Alliance would wipe them out that would be one thing. Instead the story seems to be Sylvanus just deciding to strike at a peaceful Alliance for no reason really.
04/21/2018 11:46 AMPosted by Katinna
Good or bad doesn't matter. I'm just a mercenary for my faction who kills who I get paid to kill.


This honestly is how the game treats the player character. If that's your fantasy that's one thing, but if you are thinking of your character as hero... I don't see how that works for either faction really.
04/20/2018 10:25 AMPosted by Input
BFA isn't released yet anything see or read can be changed and is most likely a place holder to not let spoilers come out. Either way In the end war is the real enemy and dam sure someone or something is pushing all the right buttons to make the anger get worse.


The story is pretty much put into place by now... There may be little changes here and there but Sylvanas is a war villain on both sides of the conflict.
The purpose of the Horde is to be bullied by Alliancechads. That's why they feel the need to band together to create their own safe space in Kalimdor.

I think Blizzard is being too meta about this when all I see are Horde posters lamenting while us Alliancebros are just telling them to sit down and be humble.
04/21/2018 01:47 PMPosted by Kastrieren
The purpose of the Horde is to be bullied by Alliancechads. That's why they feel the need to band together to create their own safe space in Kalimdor.

I think Blizzard is being too meta about this when all I see are Horde posters lamenting while us Alliancebros are just telling them to sit down and be humble.


I don't think that's true at all. When does the Alliance even bully the Horde?

Even the hardliners in the Alliance like Jaina and Genn have only ever acted in self defense except in two isolated small scale instances.
04/20/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Toushin
The problem is Blizzard's new writers are very bad at their job and turning the story to the typical overly played out human side good, non human side evil crap. The way it was, was way better with both factions having their good and evil characters and things are not so obvious. Sadly they are taking a new direction.


They almost appear not to have any knowledge of history from which to make a compelling story of competing factions without going the way of so many second rate fantasies in which "good" fights "evil".
04/21/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Rottedflesh
04/21/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Sigrún
...
Alliance is light grey. Horde is dark grey, and moving closer to black thanks to their Lich Queen.


Sylvanas has never done anything wrong

Where do I start? The angry globs of goo in Southshore that used to be human? Defying a direct order from her Warchief in Gilneas? Where?
04/21/2018 01:43 PMPosted by Wasselin
04/21/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Zudotek
I've just accepted that Horde is the heel faction at this point. Time and time again they've proved to err on the morally questionable, and Blizz seems to prefer it that way.


For me the question isn't the morality but the appeal to reason. Does it make sense to attack the Alliance?

At this point I'm not sure how the horde can hope to stand up to the Alliance. It's like poking a bear with a stick. I guess Sylvanus thought that Azerite would make it possible for the Horde to triumph.

If the story was that the horde thought they had to strike first and claim the Azerite before the alliance or else the Alliance would wipe them out that would be one thing. Instead the story seems to be Sylvanus just deciding to strike at a peaceful Alliance for no reason really.


I'm starting to think it had something to do with her deal with Helya.
04/21/2018 01:44 PMPosted by Wasselin
04/21/2018 11:46 AMPosted by Katinna
Good or bad doesn't matter. I'm just a mercenary for my faction who kills who I get paid to kill.


This honestly is how the game treats the player character. If that's your fantasy that's one thing, but if you are thinking of your character as hero... I don't see how that works for either faction really.


Less of a fantasy, but more that as a soldier we're just paid to do as we're told and follow orders.
04/20/2018 12:00 PMPosted by Hamstar
04/20/2018 11:56 AMPosted by Naijin
The Horde aren’t supposed to be villains but a group of races fighting for a place in a world that wants them gone. I think it’d be much more interesting if the Alliance for example went on an inquisition to end the Horde and the Horde had to fight back. That’d be a much better shade of grey than this crap.


As Lor'themar Theron once said "The horde only exists because of the alliance".
Because the horde are monsters who want to murder the alliance and sacrifice them like in the wc2 horde ending.
04/21/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Avaelica
04/20/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Toushin
The problem is Blizzard's new writers are very bad at their job and turning the story to the typical overly played out human side good, non human side evil crap. The way it was, was way better with both factions having their good and evil characters and things are not so obvious. Sadly they are taking a new direction.


They almost appear not to have any knowledge of history from which to make a compelling story of competing factions without going the way of so many second rate fantasies in which "good" fights "evil".
So you mean like actual history where good fights evil?

Unlike the one you made up in your head to make you feel less bad about being evil?
I don't mind being evil because in the words of Lord Helmet "Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb".
04/21/2018 03:14 PMPosted by Katinna


Less of a fantasy, but more that as a soldier we're just paid to do as we're told and follow orders.
tbh the horde isn't just a bunch of trained soldiers. The Horde is a group of cultures banning together to protect there own people by working together.

A group like that isn't very loyal towards others not intertwined with their people and will gladly cut off the alliance if there was a shred of the group using their own people in ways which would not be very respectable. For instance, dying to the blight because of friendly fire, using their people as cannon fodder, taking actions which would go against their customs. There is alot which can make them turn on one another and honestly, it's surprising that the horde faction lasted this long as IRL a faction like this would disband and fight against each other alot sooner.

The only reason why the horde has lasted as long as it did was because of it's pride and honor. You take away those things and put a undead who only cares for themselves and their mission to become immortal and not about honor nor pride, then you'll be getting a scenario where many races of that faction leaving to the other side.
OP, like many people, think the Horde is some super nice faction that needs proper justifiable actions to make a move. That's not how the Horde works.

Coming up with weird, nonsensical attitudes just to justify the other side attacking them isn't how it should be written. You guys think way too much of both factions as "both sides are good and bad, and both do bad things to each other and each have proper reasons to go against each other". In principle, that isn't far from the truth, but it's too generalized.

It completely ignores race identity, culture, past actions, just for the sake of trying to paint the other side as morally bad (according to RL morals) in order to paint the other as "good too". The "reasons" for an Orc go to war are different from the reasons of a Night Elf, which are different from the reasons of a Forsaken, etc. They're not "the same good people that value the same things", they're different.

These old writers basically tried to paint a WoW where all races are just the same, with unique weird appearances. The result is extremely warmongering Orcs being portrayed as just as good as Night Elves who did nothing but try to protect their lands.

But just to give a thought. That bothers me too. Because the Alliance plenty of reasons to go against the Horde but... none of their actions actually harm the Horde. You don't see Horde players feeling like they lost something big. At all. So, it kinda feels like only the Alliance is losing.
04/20/2018 11:10 AMPosted by Buffmage
The alliance on the other hand, is just as bad as us, but they don't wear it on their sleeves like we do. If they were pure good guys then the war would have ended while Thrall was in the spiky chair.


Rubbish. You can't blame the other side for not want to make peace with you when all you do is attack and mass murder them.

This whole crap about both sides being "grey" is just as bad as the "black and white" type of narrative. Grey for the sake of grey is what got the narrativesi damn bad, with a pile of excuses being pulled out of nowhere to justify an extremely aggressive faction towards one that literally did nothing except "I don't want to be your friend".
04/20/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Rottedflesh
I'm pretty sure alliance has wanted to kill undead since day 1. Kind of like the whole reason they're horde even.

Also the Wrathgate was not by the Forsaken just because they looked like the same zombies of the Forsaken you racist.


Uhh the Wrathgate was TOTALLY the Forsaken! Just because Sylvanas didn't approve of it doesn't mean that it wasn't the Forsaken. Didn't you watch the cinematic?
"Behold the terrible vengeance of the FORSAKEN!"
"Now all can see that this is the hour of the FORSAKEN!"
04/21/2018 01:05 PMPosted by Rottedflesh
04/21/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Sigrún
...
Alliance is light grey. Horde is dark grey, and moving closer to black thanks to their Lich Queen.


Sylvanas has never done anything wrong


And you know nothing of this game.
04/21/2018 03:49 PMPosted by Nazjira
But just to give a thought. That bothers me too. Because the Alliance plenty of reasons to go against the Horde but... none of their actions actually harm the Horde. You don't see Horde players feeling like they lost something big. At all. So, it kinda feels like only the Alliance is losing.


It only feels that way because it's true.
The best thing most Horde forget except for good ole Lor'themar, the Horde is only around cause the Alliance.
The Horde only got Orgrimmar because of Jaina defending them and gettign her daddy killed.
Yet the Horde always want to murder stuff even though they owe their very existence to Alliance haha

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