Alliance High Elves as a Playable Race

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04/20/2018 05:03 AMPosted by Mythlos
ALLIANCE HIGH ELVES AS A PLAYABLE RACE

NEW April 12th, 2018: TALIESIN AND EVITEL MADE A VIDEO ON HIGH ELVES! SUPPORTING THEIR INCLUSION FOR ALLIANCE!
It's Time For High Elves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Sr-sadSk4

Taliesin made the video with the purpose of disproving High Elves, BUT after researching as he was making it, he realized that they actually do qualify as an Alliance Allied Race. Here are all his criteria that High Elves meet listed as is in the video:

1. Are they a different enough race to existing playable options? - CHECK
2. Are there enough of them? - CHECK
3. Are they relevant? - CHECK
4. Do they look different enough? - CHECK
(4th not an essential criteria: not met by all other allied races)

The last 6 minutes of the video where he discusses why Void Elves were the wrong answer for High Elf fans and how Void Elves do not meet the criteria that all other allied races meet. Taliesin even mentions The Alurna Manifest of High Elves and showcases his argument for High Elves by presenting the fan art concepts done by our High Elf supporters!

https://youtu.be/C2Sr-sadSk4?t=16m24s

I think Blizzard consider this our playable High Elf and there's no doubt that having Void Elves, having these models as Alliance options definitely makes it feel like the 'genuine' High Elves people want are less likely than ever. This [Void Elves] feels like an answer.....except it doesn't though, does it?

And making this video has made me realize why: I wanted to make a very fair and even-handed case for each argument, for and against, Alliance High Elves to help myself decide as much as anything. So I created this list of criteria that I think the Alliance races all share to see if High Elves could fit in with that, and as we've seen they do fit those criteria. But I've come to realize, Void Elves don't.

NEW April 5th, 2018: WE'VE BEEN NOTICED MY HIGH ELVEN BRETHREN AND LADIES! GET TO THEORYCRAFTING BOYS AND GIRLS!
WoW Battle for Azeroth Dev Interview - Islands and Wrathion

https://youtu.be/HyDQF0SisAA?t=4m13s

Time: 4:13-5:10 (End where High Elves are mentioned)!

Perculia: And you've kinda touched on this before, but talking about the Golden Blood Elves a lot of players were really surprised to see that. Especially because Ion at the past Q&A just said it wasn't really a top priority to do customization for older races, so that was really cool to see. Are more little touch-ups like that on the way and was the Golden Blood Elf Eyes something that was a long time coming?.. Or just - it was really funny timing seeing it appear right after it was said it wasn't a priority.

Jeremy Feasel "Muffinus": Yeah so as with anything on the World of Warcraft team, the things that we announce and say at Blizzcon may change significantly over the course of the year. I think what we're finding is that we love the ability to add more player customization options, it's super cool. We found that players have been responding very positive to it. So we'd like to continue doing although we don't have anything to announce quite yet. We would love to hear all of your ideas! Please post them on the forums, let us know what you'd like to see. -Points and looks at camera- It's High Elves :)

Note: PLEASE extend the thread cap! We don't want to spam the forums with multiple versions of these threads, just a singular place to discuss the topic! Thank you!

Reason for this thread:
At Blizzcon, the WoW developers asked the community to provide feedback and suggestions on future Allied Races they'd like to see - this is ours!

Purpose of this thread:
Brainstorming ideas how to EVENTUALLY implement and diversify High Elves, so they don't step on Blood Elves' toes.
We will be discussing model alterations, idle stance, animations, customization options, class selection, as well as their overall culture and story.
We fully understand that if HE do happen, it won't be any time soon. Probably not until every baseline race gets an Allied Race counterpart (i.e. Worgen>Sethrak; Goblin>Vulpera).
Goals of this thread:
Aid Blizzard in the eventual implementation of a High Elf Allied Race, in a way that is most acceptable for the majority of the WoW community by providing ideas and suggestions.
We do not want "Blood Elves on the Alliance" - those are Void Elves.
We do not want to "take away an Allied Race slot" - we are aiming for further down the line, after everyone else has taken their turn.
Please note: These threads have been going on for quite some time, and most of the arguments have already been had quite extensively. The below are some examples of the most common, and while people are free to post what they like, anyone making these arguments will likely not get a response.

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FAQs/Common Counterarguments:

“Aren’t High Elves Just Blood Elves With Blue Eyes?”

Leaving the lore differences aside, model-wise, currently, yes. Blizzard has a long track record of having less developed models for races that are not currently playable. If made playable, it is very likely that these models would see some kind of revisiting to further differentiate them from Blood Elves, similar to tweaks Nightborne got in comparison to Night Elves. Common suggestions have been: changing the idle stances and animations, which would change the silhouette, a more “human”-like model modified from the current Human or Night Elf models, slimmed down, or customization specific traits like tattoos, war paints, or distinct hairstyle choices, among others.

“There aren’t enough High Elves left, I thought?”

The Silver Covenant, the militarized organization of Dalaran High Elves (which have recently been clarified as being more numerous than once thought), have been present for many of the Alliance’s military operations in the past several expansions and have consistently fielded numbers that would suggest there are plenty of them left. Similarly, Quel’Danil lodge in the Hinterlands and the Allerian Stronghold in Outland both show other independently organized High Elf forces that are not suffering in numbers. In addition, Stormwind has its own High Elf population. There is more than enough evidence to suggest High Elves have enough numbers to be appropriate for an Allied Race, especially compared to what has been shown as appropriate for other examples such as the Lightforged or the Void Elves.

Source: In-game representation, out of game official canon text such as Chronicle Vol 3

“I don’t want to see any more elves in this game!”

This is a subjective opinion, and a valid one, but not a reasonable argument against other people’s ability to ask for what they would also subjectively like to see.

"What about Void Elves?”

Void Elves were specifically and deliberately set up as being recent exiles from Silvermoon among the Blood Elf population. Their presence does not continue the separate High Elf story in any way and thus is not a reason for them not to be added.

“High Elves = Blood Elves = Void Elves”

Both the in-game lore and the out of game official canon texts have very clearly set up the Thalassian elves as a split people, and the themes of mutual High Elf and Blood Elf resentment for each other is what led to the creation of the Silver Covenant in the first place. Furthermore, Chronicle has drawn further attention to the fact on some level this split was in the process of happening before Kael’Thas even renamed those who followed him to Blood Elves: tensions existed between the High Elves who chose to live in Dalaran and those who lived in Silvermoon, the latter considering the former to prefer the company of humans over the love of their own homeland.

Sources: In-game representation and lore as presented through Alliance questing, as well as out-of-game official canon text such as Chronicle Vol 3.

“High Elves will cause population bleed on Horde side.”

Considering Allied Races have so far required extra steps, such as having a max level character on the appropriate faction and gating behind reputations, along with the fact that Allied Races also have restricted class options (Death Knight and Demon Hunter are both very popular classes and would likely not be available), this outcome is unlikely. Adding to that, the fact that Horde edges out Alliance population-wise slightly at max level, and the fact that Void Elves, which brought the Blood Elf model to the Alliance to begin with, did not impact overall faction balance, and this is very likely not a very serious concern.

Above ^ summary made by the lovely Tabasa-Earthen Ring~


I care about as much for high-elves as I do the void elves. To me, they are one and the same. I wouldn't want them both. I would seriously rather just trade out one for the other.

At least the void-elves look cool. But we already have blue-elves so I'm very slightly more partial to the high-elves. Fine time for them to step up to the plate though. Demons, Horde civil wars, and world-ending dragons aside, they join now just to help the Alliance wage war with the Horde?
04/21/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Wiccan
04/21/2018 03:51 PMPosted by Aldrenn
Iol. Seriously though I'm not saying they never existed in literary history. I'm saying lore wise in WoW there has never been such a thing. As for the D&D comment, I should have elaborated, they never existed officially in D&D before AD&D was published in 1987. As for Tolkien, I'm pretty sure half elves aren't ever mentioned in any of his books.


Actually, Arator, Alodi, Vereesa's twin sons, and Kalecgos' humanoid form are all supposed to be half-elves.

That said I do want High Elves, not halfs, though I wouldn't mind them as a skin option.


Is it mentioned they're a half elf? If it is I'll rescind my previous statement.
04/21/2018 02:43 PMPosted by Seregon
04/21/2018 02:31 PMPosted by Narterenn


I guess you missed the literal hundreds of times people have suggested making changes as significant, if not more so, than Nathanos like undead as an answer to people upset that we'd be "stealing" their model. And the response is always "OMG now you want Belves but BETTER!"


I guess you haven't read the hundreds of post asking for the exact same model..........Its okay I'll post a few for you since you think a lot of your fanboys want a altered model.......

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762217740#post-12
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762217740#post-14
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762217740?page=2#post-21
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762217740?page=3#post-51
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762217740?page=4#post-67

and that is just in the 1st 4 pages, but go ahead and act like I don't know whats being asked for


SOME of us are adamant about the model for playable high elves being the blood elf model only slightly modified. I for one have posted multiple times in this very thread that I'd be peachy with a high elf based off a modified human model to reflect the interbreeding with humans that Elisande called them out for.
04/21/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Nabril


I care about as much for high-elves as I do the void elves. To me, they are one and the same. I wouldn't want them both. I would seriously rather just trade out one for the other.

At least the void-elves look cool. But we already have blue-elves so I'm very slightly more partial to the high-elves. Fine time for them to step up to the plate though. Demons, Horde civil wars, and world-ending dragons aside, they join now just to help the Alliance wage war with the Horde?


They've been in the game since WC2. And on the Alliance front lines since atleast Wrath. They've been a major story part of every expansion for us since then. It's not about stepping up the the plate, it's about making playable the thing that we see everyday when we log on. My character's actively standing by Veressa and Arator aboard the Vindicaar right now...
Is it mentioned he's a half elf? If it is I'll rescind my previous statement.


For Arator, his mother is Alleria, his father is Trylon.

That said I don't think they should be their own race. They can just add a Short Ear/Short Eyebrow Face to High Elves.
04/21/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Aldrenn
04/21/2018 03:54 PMPosted by Zandy
No


No what?


No high elves!
04/21/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Aldrenn
04/21/2018 03:56 PMPosted by Wiccan
...

Actually, Arator, Alodi, Vereesa's twin sons, and Kalecgos' humanoid form are all supposed to be half-elves.

That said I do want High Elves, not halfs, though I wouldn't mind them as a skin option.


Is it mentioned they're a half elf? If it is I'll rescind my previous statement.


Arator, Vereesa's sons and Kalec's humanoid forms are all half-elves (Arator and Vereesa's boys because they have human fathers and elf mothers). In the sunwell trilogy comics Kalec is actually mocked by either Halduron or Lor'themar (can't remember which) about being 'just a lowly half-elf' (before they find out he's a blue dragon and start backpedaling). Alodi is also canonically a half-elf. )
04/21/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Aldrenn
Is it mentioned they're a half elf? If it is I'll rescind my previous statement.


The whole first part of the invasion of Argus is about finding his parents Alleria and Turalyon...

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Alleria_Windrunner
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Turalyon
04/21/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Drede
Is it mentioned he's a half elf? If it is I'll rescind my previous statement.


For Arator, his mother is Alleria, his father is Trylon.

That said I don't think they should be their own race. They can just add a Short Ear/Short Eyebrow Face to High Elves.


What I mean, is there text or spoken word that declares either a half elf. This used to come up in basic D&D and the book on that said if something to the effect of is someone wanted mix parentage, you either picked to be an elf or a human.
04/21/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Zandy
04/21/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Aldrenn
...

No what?


No high elves!


just so we're clear on this. you do realize there are fans of the warcraft games from all over the world, who play world of warcraft and who want playable high elves on the alliance. we've had contact from people from china, brazil, portugal and sweden thus far. they read this thread and also want playable high elves. so meet the world ms. i-dont-want-anybody-to-enjoy-the-game-the-way-they-want-unless-i-approve-it-first.
04/21/2018 03:55 PMPosted by Aldrenn
...

No what?


No, high elves!
04/21/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Drede
...

For Arator, his mother is Alleria, his father is Trylon.

That said I don't think they should be their own race. They can just add a Short Ear/Short Eyebrow Face to High Elves.


What I mean, is there text or spoken word that declares either a half elf. This used to come up in basic D&D and the book on that said if something to the effect of is someone wanted mix parentage, you either picked to be an elf or a human.


Quotes from Arator in TBC:

Arator and Malgor
Father Malgor Devidicus says: Shay, what'sh your deal anywaysh? Are you shome kind of elf or shomethin? You look shorta familiar.
Arator the Redeemer says: I am Arator, son of Turalyon and Alleria. So yes, Father, I am "shome" kind of elf: half-elf to be precise.
Father Malgor Devidicus's face turns white. Sobriety seems to have set in rather quickly.
Father Malgor Devidicus says: By the Light! So this is why you look familiar. Is this fate? Destiny, perhaps? Arator, your father and I were the best of friends. It is I who kept him in good health... Oh the battles we fought... And...
Father Malgor Devidicus clears his throat.
Father Malgor Devidicus says: And... the battle we lost. I...I'm sorry, Arator. It was my fault...
Father Malgor Devidicus begins to sob.
Father Malgor Devidicus says: Quickly, Sid. Fill my tankard. Make the memories fade...
Sid Limbardi says: Oh brother... Listen, he's gonna be here crying like a baby for another five hours. If you're really the son of Turalyon, go speak with Trollbane. He's in the keep - top floor.
Arator the Redeemer says: Thank you Sid. Keep an eye on him; he is my only link to my mother and father, and I'd like to see him sober.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Arator_the_Redeemer
04/21/2018 03:58 PMPosted by Talendrion
04/21/2018 03:39 PMPosted by Píñkÿ
/whispers
dont tell anybody but i'm trying to get the artist to do a female full body version
shhhh.


Shhh. We'll see about that ;D But yeah, rn I'd personally kinda want to explore High Elves with a modified Non Blood Elf model, so what could I base my female version in then? a Night Elf, or Human female?


human female please. Night elf females are amazons with giant hands X.x
04/21/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Nabril
At least the void-elves look cool. But we already have blue-elves so I'm very slightly more partial to the high-elves. Fine time for them to step up to the plate though. Demons, Horde civil wars, and world-ending dragons aside, they join now just to help the Alliance wage war with the Horde?
Did you know that High Elves have stepped up to help the Alliance since Wrath? If not can read up on their wiki, specifically Silver Covenant as well.

They've been a more major assistance than some already existing playable races.
04/21/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Drede
That said I don't think they should be their own race. They can just add a Short Ear/Short Eyebrow Face to High Elves.
For the half-elf crowd I would actually like this option (How do half-elf fans feel about this?), I think it also adds more strength to making High Elves their own separate Allied Race as well. Which I think Blizzard is going to do already anyway, Muffinus acknowledged them as one of many requests before saying they were a community favorite so me thinks they won't combine them into Void Elves, which is a nice relief.
...

What I mean, is there text or spoken word that declares either a half elf. This used to come up in basic D&D and the book on that said if something to the effect of is someone wanted mix parentage, you either picked to be an elf or a human.


Quotes from Arator in TBC:

Arator and Malgor
Father Malgor Devidicus says: Shay, what'sh your deal anywaysh? Are you shome kind of elf or shomethin? You look shorta familiar.
Arator the Redeemer says: I am Arator, son of Turalyon and Alleria. So yes, Father, I am "shome" kind of elf: half-elf to be precise.
Father Malgor Devidicus's face turns white. Sobriety seems to have set in rather quickly.
Father Malgor Devidicus says: By the Light! So this is why you look familiar. Is this fate? Destiny, perhaps? Arator, your father and I were the best of friends. It is I who kept him in good health... Oh the battles we fought... And...
Father Malgor Devidicus clears his throat.
Father Malgor Devidicus says: And... the battle we lost. I...I'm sorry, Arator. It was my fault...
Father Malgor Devidicus begins to sob.
Father Malgor Devidicus says: Quickly, Sid. Fill my tankard. Make the memories fade...
Sid Limbardi says: Oh brother... Listen, he's gonna be here crying like a baby for another five hours. If you're really the son of Turalyon, go speak with Trollbane. He's in the keep - top floor.
Arator the Redeemer says: Thank you Sid. Keep an eye on him; he is my only link to my mother and father, and I'd like to see him sober.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Arator_the_Redeemer


I rescind my previous statement about half elves not existing in WoW, I missed that before.
04/21/2018 04:14 PMPosted by Dhumah
04/21/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Nabril
At least the void-elves look cool. But we already have blue-elves so I'm very slightly more partial to the high-elves. Fine time for them to step up to the plate though. Demons, Horde civil wars, and world-ending dragons aside, they join now just to help the Alliance wage war with the Horde?
Did you know that High Elves have stepped up to help the Alliance since Wrath? If not can read up on their wiki, specifically Silver Covenant as well.

They've been a more major assistance than some already existing playable races.
04/21/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Drede
That said I don't think they should be their own race. They can just add a Short Ear/Short Eyebrow Face to High Elves.
For the half-elf crowd I would actually like this option (How do half-elf fans feel about this?), I think it also adds more strength to making High Elves their own separate Allied Race as well. Which I think Blizzard is going to do already anyway, Muffinus acknowledged them as one of many requests before saying they were a community favorite so me thinks they won't combine them into Void Elves, which is a nice relief.


I think Half-Elves should be their own thing. But they should wait to be added until there's a lore reason for them to seek out each other and band together. I envision that they're being hunted by BE or something to 'purify the bloodline' and so they band together for survival with support from the High Elves, make a base in one of the basically unused taverns in the Mage Quarter of SW and get added that way with Arator as the faction leader.
I dont even remeber where else i posted this so many HE threads but ill say it again.

Ill be fine with it . Id actually like skintone varients for both belfs and velfs alike . If they cant so a barbershop option . Then i want HE options to have black hair and red hair too and also have all belf and all velf hairstyles (the non glowing tenticle varients ) .

Most importantly id like to be able to lool like the HE in new dalaran i front of the bank . She has black hair and blue eyes and is adorable . Plz make it happen blizz plz .

https://imgur.com/a/Lj6PumQ
04/21/2018 04:15 PMPosted by Aldrenn
I rescind my previous statement about half elves not existing in WoW, I missed that before.


To be honest I had never given the subject much thought. I had to look it up for myself to see if it was ever explicitly stated... :)
04/21/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Galkurion
04/21/2018 04:02 PMPosted by Nabril


I care about as much for high-elves as I do the void elves. To me, they are one and the same. I wouldn't want them both. I would seriously rather just trade out one for the other.

At least the void-elves look cool. But we already have blue-elves so I'm very slightly more partial to the high-elves. Fine time for them to step up to the plate though. Demons, Horde civil wars, and world-ending dragons aside, they join now just to help the Alliance wage war with the Horde?


They've been in the game since WC2. And on the Alliance front lines since atleast Wrath. They've been a major story part of every expansion for us since then. It's not about stepping up the the plate, it's about making playable the thing that we see everyday when we log on. My character's actively standing by Veressa and Arator aboard the Vindicaar right now...


I can't find any details explaining their involvement with stopping the Twilight Hammer, fighting against the Zandalari, stopping Deathwing, sacking Orgrimmar and putting an end to Garrosh Hellscream, going through the portal to put an end to Garrosh Hellscream (again) and stopping the Iron Horde, or coming back through the portal to help stop the Legion at the Broken Shore. And no, the Void-Elves don't count. They're spoken for as "Void-Elves" now and the general opinion of everyone who is for High-elves is that Void-Elves are NOT considered High-Elves (even though every wiki page on the subject says that they are).

People were able to show that they had a part in Cata, but I didn't see them in any of the future ones because they would have had to leave their homes. Did they travel to Pandaria? Did they go to planet Draenor? Were they at the Broken Shore when King Varian died at the hands of Gul'Dan?

So, how big was their involvement? I mean... how much did they help? Did they help in each and every expansion as much as any other Alliance race? Wrath, MoP, WoD, and Legion? Were they in every single major battle?
04/21/2018 04:15 PMPosted by Aldrenn


I rescind my previous statement about half elves not existing in WoW, I missed that before.


it's a cool story too. never read it till now.

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