Affliction Warlock Feedback

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05/24/2018 09:27 PMPosted by Fairyland

05/24/2018 08:24 PMPosted by Bridius
Remove Soul Conduit and replace it with Siphon Life

put Soul Swap in place of the missing spot
The fact that i can copy 5 UA+max Agony+Corruption and apply it to another target free of charge is even way more OP than zero-cooldown Havoc.

[/quote]

Just don't allow UA to be used with Soul Swap. It would make no sense anyway considering UA costs soul shards.

Just allow swapping of Agony, Corr, SL
Loving the changes made to locks. While I thoroughly enjoyed pvping in Legion; drain life was without a doubt overpowered. However like others who have said the shift from drain life to shadow bolt is welcomed and a nice change of pace, but is underwhelming and a bit of a let down after how dynamic locks were in legion. I'd like to hear what others think, but i think there should be a debuff associated with it. I know it must be complex with all the changes already made by locks but a simple burst or an increase damage buff for our pets so we don't have to chain cast the same spell relentlessly. Another idea is perhaps after 3/4/5 Fear starts receives a lowered cast time.

Boomkins have finally after more than a couple of expansions of them being broken with being forced to chain cast the same spells (which understandably is eventually unavoidable I get because after all it is a fight/game) and in BFA they've been completely saved with being reworked slightly. I personally think the two classes are akin and it would be prudent to take the lesson from boomkins and apply it to afflic warlocks, and not go back and forth with minor changes that ultimately not addressing the core issue.

Besides that I am more than excited for the Battle of Azeroth.
05/24/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Bridius
Just don't allow UA to be used with Soul Swap. It would make no sense anyway considering UA costs soul shards.

Just allow swapping of Agony, Corr, SL


How is that even helpful?
Deathbolt now is Shadow School instead of Chaos.

Ok, now I'm mad. Squishy as tissue paper, Healthstone nerfed to 25% HP%, useless Dark Pact that forces you to use it at the start of a fight, Fear that breaks with pathetic damage, equally pathetic UA dispel protection, and now our only Spell with an alternative School got changed.

Hi, my name is Blizzard, how can I screw Affliction PvP today?
05/24/2018 10:45 PMPosted by Sceress
05/24/2018 10:05 PMPosted by Bridius
Just don't allow UA to be used with Soul Swap. It would make no sense anyway considering UA costs soul shards.

Just allow swapping of Agony, Corr, SL


How is that even helpful?


Good point it's not
05/24/2018 11:26 PMPosted by Bridius
05/24/2018 10:45 PMPosted by Sceress
...

How is that even helpful?


Good point it's not
i mean, i kinda point that out when i said this.
05/24/2018 09:27 PMPosted by Fairyland
I would say don't expect Soul Swap to ever return if UA stacking still remains. And it would suck if Soul Swap only copies Agony+Corruption.


I can make a case where swapping Siphon Life and Soul Conduit might work better, but that still leave us one problem.

That row 100 talent feels terribly uninteresting, even as it is.

Don't get me wrong: Creeping Death and Dark Soul is great talent. They just doesn't make us go 'wow' or feel excited.
So no change to Shard Generation, survivability/mobility or pet.

it's like building your house and even before having strong foundation you work on the roof.
Can we please get more visual changes? Destro and demo are looking absolutely amazing, chaos bolt and hand of guldan in particular look hot as heck. I feel that the graphic for Unstable Affliction just isn't enough, our base dots still don't really have animations other than a little bit of shadow !@#$%^e falling from our fingers, and a small visual effect on the enemy that will be completely invisible with more than 4 people dpsing the same target. Could we not get a visual graphic that travels between us and the target when we cast either Agony or Corruption? At the moment affliction is visually absent from a raid environment, you literally cannot see them, unless they are talented into drain soul (which is probably unlikely for raiding given how its being balanced)

One thing I would absolutely adore is if Dark Soul got some love, for destro and demo combined. Let it give us wings, these wings http://www.wowhead.com/item=119163/soul-inhaler#screenshots:id=445505 It just fits the class, and looks visually distinct from Demon Hunters. The current graphic is very underwhelming, compared to almost every other casters cooldowns. Fire mages turn into literal candles and frost mages turn into really cool bright icy glaciers. Ele shams turn into really big weird dudes, the list kind of goes on and on.

This idea is a bit of a longshot, but maybe whenever we get a soul shard via agony, could the soul of a random enemy we currently have agony on fly towards us much like the current graphic Reap Souls has? I really like that graphic, especially when you have 12 souls built up all over the raid floor, so to see it go is kind of disheartening.
General feedback:

-I love Haunt, would like to see this baseline

-Dot duration seems too short especially when using active talents such as haunt (which is a talent I really like) and creeping death. The constant refreshing of dots on ST is just annoying and feels especially bad with shadow bolt.

-The pet summon as our major CD just feels odd to me. It seems more like a demonology thing, no? I'd rather Dark Soul become baseline instead of the pet and we get a more affliction style talent in its place. Potentially having 2 powerful CDs just doesn't fit affliction imo.

Latest changes:

Not really sure what the purpose of the talent switches was?

I can say that I'm not a fan of it as I liked haunt+nightfall and that is no longer an option. Drain + haunt also seemed fun... Now that gap will be filled with deathbolt which I don't like too much...

...

Affliction has a lot of potential in BFA to be a really fun spec but these problems kind of ruin it for me personally.
05/25/2018 05:29 AMPosted by Sylvestrax
General feedback:

-I love Haunt, would like to see this baseline

-Dot duration seems too short especially when using active talents such as haunt (which is a talent I really like) and creeping death. The constant refreshing of dots on ST is just annoying and feels especially bad with shadow bolt.

-The pet summon as our major CD just feels odd to me. It seems more like a demonology thing, no? I'd rather Dark Soul become baseline instead of the pet and we get a more affliction style talent in its place. Potentially having 2 powerful CDs just doesn't fit affliction imo.

Latest changes:

Not really sure what the purpose of the talent switches was?

I can say that I'm not a fan of it as I liked haunt+nightfall and that is no longer an option. Drain + haunt also seemed fun... Now that gap will be filled with deathbolt which I don't like too much...

...

Affliction has a lot of potential in BFA to be a really fun spec but these problems kind of ruin it for me personally.


I personally enjoyed Haunt + Shadowy Embrace + Siphon Life + Singularity + Creeping Afflictions. It felt like your rotation was full of things to do. A good amount of time to cast UA's and Haunt, it didn't feel like i was overwhelmed by global cooldowns.
Honestly these changes seem almost like a troll from the devs to affliction warlocks. I don't think that's what they intended but it's definitely how it feels. Right now you have an option of either a super frantic SB build or a somewhat boring DS build. Personally I'll make the DS build work, but this just feels bad. I'm perfectly fine with Blizz wanting to make SB the go-to filler but if they want to do that they need to make our dots last longer (yes I'm aware they are just going to nerf us to do that). NOTE: I don't like SB as a filler at all but I'll use it if I'm absolutely forced.

For the DS build it needs at least three dots to actively manage to feel interactive on live this is solved by including SL, but it needs four dots to be competitive. As I've said before and I'll say again: SL and AC shouldn't compete. IMO SL should be baseline not a talent if you go DS. But as many have said before... there are lot of things that should be baseline that aren't.
^^
There are not words for how much these changes actually ruined my enjoyment of affliction. - I personally cannot find a build that feels good with drain soul. now that we lost haunt with drain :(those 2 talents had great rotational synergy)
I dislike Deathbolt stacking build up requirement (Setup is based off an rng shard)
Get luck and setup correct and 46k crit - get no shards and miss a cast of ua and 8k bolt........
Shadows embrace is just not fun - its a passive click and leave talent -
Grim Sac is also a click and forget talent.


Did a bunch of testing and was seeing that the highest damage build I got was
Single target
Haunt - AC - Phantom Singularity - Deathbolt - Creeping Death
this build is so boring....... you keep agony and 1 UA up - cast one corruption -and Spam SHADOW BOLTS.
until you have 5 shards and then dump and darkglare CD /trinkets /and other buffs and Deathbolt. then spam shadow bolt.
#1 damage with this build is SB and #2 is death bolt UA being 3rd and then corruption and agony after that
this build is mind numbing and so boring......................
ALSO DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A DOT CLASS - when top 2 damage are bolts.

But from what I experienced due to the tuning of shadow bolts damage its basically the best way to maximize shadow bolt cast amounts.

it looks like blizzard is trying to create 3 specific builds in there mind -
this would be allot easier if they just had all the talents for each build down each column and call it a day.
everyone gets 3 choices of play each ones options preset that way tuning is easy and they can balance each per encounter.
cause right now
This WHOLE TREE IS A HOT MESS.
@ the devs you heard us before and came in to help -
I think that now would be a good time to come in and lets us know why and for what reason these changes were done.

Cause I haven't seen a good post since this happened.
I think there has been some severe misunderstandings of what we're looking for. So let me make this clear as far as what I am looking for.

Right now I'm focused on two builds:

Drain and DOT:
For the DS build I'm looking for 4 active dots, with three that require maintenance. This should be roughly analogous to live in terms of rotation. UA stacking is OK in this build. Deathbolt is not required but nice; if it can't be worked in as a talent for this build that's ok. DS must generate shards and execute for this to be viable. DS should have some self heal although very limited; perhaps 6% over full cast like VT gives shadow priests? Ideally we'd use some variant of the new DL graphic. In summary this build should be very dot maintenance (Agony, SL, UA, but not corruption via AC) and drain focused it doesn't have as much mobility but should still have Burning rush as an option. Haunt would be a nice addition if it's possible to work in.
Suggested Talents:
  • Drain Soul (replaces shadow bolt)
  • Siphon Life
  • Absolute Corruption


Shadow Bolt and Cooldown:
For the SB build I'm looking for 3 dots, two of which require maintenance. Longer Dot times, but no DPS loss. No UA stacking. Deathbolt is likely the big cooldown here. While I don't think this feels like affliction it gives people the hyper mobile affliction they've been looking for. Nightfall is a plus here. In summary this build is very proc based, focusing on less DPS from dots and the majority of the DPS from (haunt or Deathbolt)/nightfall procs and cooldowns. I do think SB should potentially have some synergy with Corruption or Agony, but I'm not sure what this would look like.
Suggested Talents:
  • Nightfall
  • Deathbolt (Should replace UA IMO, and have some baseline damage, I think this should also have equivalent healing to DS on average)
  • Absolute Corruption


Notes and Thoughts:
Please note that Deathbolt is a bit of a hanger on here, I'd honestly consider having it compete with haunt and shadow embrace like it was in the prior build. It should be tuned to be DPS neutral across the row. But I know the people that prefer the SB build might disagree.

Another note is that I see Absolute corruption as required for both builds... so whatever is competing on that row is to me basically dead. That's a good sign that something might need to be baseline. I absolutely think that SL shouldn't compete with AC as that breaks the Dot/DS build.

This is my personal view and I expect others to disagree.
05/25/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Sefirosuwar
^^
There are not words for how much these changes actually ruined my enjoyment of affliction. - I personally cannot find a build that feels good with drain soul. now that we lost haunt with drain :(those 2 talents had great rotational synergy)
I dislike Deathbolt stacking build up requirement (Setup is based off an rng shard)
Get luck and setup correct and 46k crit - get no shards and miss a cast of ua and 8k bolt........
Shadows embrace is just not fun - its a passive click and leave talent -
Grim Sac is also a click and forget talent.


Did a bunch of testing and was seeing that the highest damage build I got was
Single target
Haunt - AC - Phantom Singularity - Deathbolt - Creeping Death
this build is so boring....... you keep agony and 1 UA up - cast one corruption -and Spam SHADOW BOLTS.
until you have 5 shards and then dump and darkglare CD /trinkets /and other buffs and Deathbolt. then spam shadow bolt.
#1 damage with this build is SB and #2 is death bolt UA being 3rd and then corruption and agony after that
this build is mind numbing and so boring......................
ALSO DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A DOT CLASS - when top 2 damage are bolts.

But from what I experienced due to the tuning of shadow bolts damage its basically the best way to maximize shadow bolt cast amounts.

it looks like blizzard is trying to create 3 specific builds in there mind -
this would be allot easier if they just had all the talents for each build down each column and call it a day.
everyone gets 3 choices of play each ones options preset that way tuning is easy and they can balance each per encounter.
cause right now
This WHOLE TREE IS A HOT MESS.


The talent tree is not a mess. You don’t have to take Deathbolt and shadowbolt
05/25/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Jessail
I think there has been some severe misunderstandings of what we're looking for. So let me make this clear as far as what I am looking for.

Right now I'm focused on two builds:

Drain and DOT:
For the DS build I'm looking for 4 active dots, with three that require maintenance. This should be roughly analogous to live in terms of rotation. UA stacking is OK in this build. Deathbolt is not required but nice; if it can't be worked in as a talent for this build that's ok. DS must generate shards and execute for this to be viable. DS should have some self heal although very limited; perhaps 6% over full cast like VT gives shadow priests? Ideally we'd use some variant of the new DL graphic. In summary this build should be very dot maintenance (Agony, SL, UA, but not corruption via AC) and drain focused it doesn't have as much mobility but should still have Burning rush as an option. Haunt would be a nice addition if it's possible to work in.
Suggested Talents:
  • Drain Soul (replaces shadow bolt)
  • Siphon Life
  • Absolute Corruption


Shadow Bolt and Cooldown:
For the SB build I'm looking for 3 dots, two of which require maintenance. Longer Dot times, but no DPS loss. No UA stacking. Deathbolt is likely the big cooldown here. While I don't think this feels like affliction it gives people the hyper mobile affliction they've been looking for. Nightfall is a plus here. In summary this build is very proc based, focusing on less DPS from dots and the majority of the DPS from (haunt or Deathbolt)/nightfall procs and cooldowns. I do think SB should potentially have some synergy with Corruption or Agony, but I'm not sure what this would look like.
Suggested Talents:
  • Nightfall
  • Deathbolt (Should replace UA IMO, and have some baseline damage, I think this should also have equivalent healing to DS on average)
  • Absolute Corruption


Notes and Thoughts:
Please note that Deathbolt is a bit of a hanger on here, I'd honestly consider having it compete with haunt and shadow embrace like it was in the prior build. It should be tuned to be DPS neutral across the row. But I know the people that prefer the SB build might disagree.

Another note is that I see Absolute corruption as required for both builds... so whatever is competing on that row is to me basically dead. That's a good sign that something might need to be baseline. I absolutely think that SL shouldn't compete with AC as that breaks the Dot/DS build.

This is my personal view and I expect others to disagree.


Absolute corruption is definitely not required. It’s a talent and they haven’t even started number tuning.
05/25/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Sefirosuwar
Did a bunch of testing and was seeing that the highest damage build I got was


They havent done numbers tuning yet so why are we giving feedback like this. Do you seriously think they will keep Haunt like it is if they even decide to keep it in that tree. I mean comon it doesn't make sense for Haunt to stay at 10% it completely overshadows nightfall and DS in that state. Mixed with the fact that they nerfed DS you have to at least have somewhat of a though in your head that they are planning something.
05/25/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Izuni
They havent done numbers tuning yet so why are we giving feedback like this

This may sound odd but it is because it matters. What people play in the beta (determined by numbers tuning) determines what makes live. They are collecting data on all of this. So subjective feedback like mine above is good, but having discussions about how the class feels numbers wise is not out of line. That said we should focus mostly on large gaps and issues in my opinion.
I never want to use drain soul as a filler outside of the execute phase. The least fun I have ever had as AFF is this xpac, legion, when drain soul is the answer for so many different situations.
05/25/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Sefirosuwar
@ the devs you heard us before and came in to help -
I think that now would be a good time to come in and lets us know why and for what reason these changes were done.

Cause I haven't seen a good post since this happened.


It makes complete sense why they were moved if you are not look at the numbers(which again have not been tuned yet):

Tier 15 is mostly a playstyle change where you have nightfall vs. DS vs. old SB + Haunt gameplay.

Tier 30 is Cleave vs. Council vs. ST

Tier 60 is Sustain vs. Long CD Burst vs. Steady Burst

Tier 90 is a bit tricky without tuning and sims but grimsac should be better at AoE/Cleave while the other two are mostly ST(SE possibly best in 2 target cleave and DB is possibly best in ST)

Tier 100 is self explanatory.

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