Affliction Warlock Feedback

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06/04/2018 05:39 PMPosted by Lannik
Yesterday I've read that Drain soul is not going away after all (YAYYYY!!! I love that mechanic). But I was wondering, as Shadow bolt has Nightfall to synergize, are there any plans to introduce something of the likes of Malefic grasp to synergize with drain soul?


Unlikely considering at it's core i believe the tier 15 Talents are designed around filler gameplay which they should average out to be close regardless of the situation. Meaning your other talents/abilities/performance is going to be much more noticable then what 15 talents you took(provided they balance haunt.)
I'm just hoping for another talent shuffle/rework in this next build.
to hopefully give back Haunt+drain play.
and a soul link to afflic baseline.
I really miss the days of Drain Soul, Shadowburn, and Soulfire.

What really made us stand out especially from mages was that once our target was low enough on HP we could utterly destroy them.

Drain Soul dealing 100% extra damage for Afflic. Shadowburn being castable for destro. and Soulfire cast time being almost non-existent for Demo.

Right now it's obvious especially in dungeons that Affliction is missing Drain Soul. I really don't understand why it can't have BOTH Shadow Bolt and Drain Soul... generating a Soul Shard upon a mob's death has been a core part of Warlock since VANILLA. Why take away something that makes the spec FUN TO PLAY? And at the same time being a core part of our class identity?

Same can be said for Shadowburn. I love destro - it plays smooth and feels great EXCEPT for when a mob is very low health. It feels terrible. All I want to do is destroy my target with Shadowburn. Why has that been taken away from us???
06/05/2018 09:37 AMPosted by Sefirosuwar
I'm just hoping for another talent shuffle/rework in this next build.
to hopefully give back Haunt+drain play.
and a soul link to afflic baseline.


Yeah I kinda hope this talent setup isn’t final.

I’m a little disappointed in the lack of utility for Affliction, hopefully they work on the Honor Talents too.
06/05/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Xoja
Yeah I kinda hope this talent setup isn’t final.

I’m a little disappointed in the lack of utility for Affliction, hopefully they work on the Honor Talents too.

I suspect at this point it's probably final through 8.1
Well another build can still come. I was hoping drain soul would have an updated graphic at least. There's no reason it should be using an old animation anymore.
06/05/2018 11:50 AMPosted by Salsbury
Well another build can still come. I was hoping drain soul would have an updated graphic at least. There's no reason it should be using an old animation anymore.

I don't think they were originally intending for it to be in BfA at all, hence no time or effort was put. The only reason it came back is because there was overwhelming feedback that the flow with SB was nuts in PvE.
yeah I agree -Drain soul was meant to be gone :
I think that there was just so much feedback that they couldn't ignore it.
and at this point they are conflicted cause they didn't have time to budget affliction changes or a rework so they have no idea what to do and are just trying to find ways to band aid the spec.
notice how the changes feel rushed and unfinished and don't all flow.
06/05/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
notice how the changes feel rushed and unfinished and don't all flow.

This has been my concern about the entire expansion, but even more so about what they will do with 8.1, I don't think we're out of the woods on bad ideas of what to do with affliction. I'm fairly sure they are going to try to remove DS again for reasons I can't fathom since the literal description of an affliction warlock both in game and on armory is "A master of shadow magic who specializes in drains and damage-over-time spells." I literally just copied and pasted that from the armory page.
06/05/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Jessail
06/05/2018 12:14 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
notice how the changes feel rushed and unfinished and don't all flow.

This has been my concern about the entire expansion, but even more so about what they will do with 8.1, I don't think we're out of the woods on bad ideas of what to do with affliction. I'm fairly sure they are going to try to remove DS again for reasons I can't fathom since the literal description of an affliction warlock both in game and on armory is "A master of shadow magic who specializes in drains and damage-over-time spells." I literally just copied and pasted that from the armory page.


I don’t think it should be removed but I also don’t think it has longevity with the current implementation.

Whether that’s for a patch or for a whole expansion we’ll have to see but I have a feeling Aff is up for more changes down the road, and I’m sure Drain Soul will be re-evaluated once again.
@ jessail - Yeah I've been feeling the same way that we could see a drain soul removal occur since balancing a filler as a talent choice just doesn't seem to be feasible without breaking a whole talent row.

Example I hate SB as a filler and don't think Haunt should be in the filler row.
regardless of if its better dps - I wont pick them over DS
and that kills a whole talent row : Just so that I can pick my filler. I dont think that's something that blizzard wants to happen.

and I know i'm not alone in that.
06/05/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Xoja
Whether that’s for a patch or for a whole expansion we’ll have to see but I have a feeling Aff is up for more changes down the road, and I’m sure Drain Soul will be re-evaluated once again.

Project management clearly has something in mind for affliction, I'm not sure what it is but it doesn't seem to line up with the community is my primary concern.

06/05/2018 12:46 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
Example I hate SB as a filler and don't think Haunt should be in the filler row.
regardless of if its better dps - I wont pick them over DS
and that kills a whole talent row : Just so that I can pick my filler. I dont think that's something that blizzard wants to happen.

I'm not as convinced actually, when I read Seph's post it seems they are treating this as an experiment to see how it plays out and they are actually kinda happy it's happening. That said I prefer DS too in general, but I do think that SB/NF is going to dominate in PvP builds.
06/05/2018 12:46 PMPosted by Sefirosuwar
@ jessail - Yeah I've been feeling the same way that we could see a drain soul removal occur since balancing a filler as a talent choice just doesn't seem to be feasible without breaking a whole talent row.

Example I hate SB as a filler and don't think Haunt should be in the filler row.
regardless of if its better dps - I wont pick them over DS
and that kills a whole talent row : Just so that I can pick my filler. I dont think that's something that blizzard wants to happen.

and I know i'm not alone in that.


The 15 row feels terrible to me, as I’ve mentioned. I don’t hate Nightfall/SB, I welcome that in PVP because I like to have as much mobility as I can but I just hate that the 15 row is all things I used to use in conjunction.

Affliction doesn’t have to feel 100% smooth-flowing to me but it really feels like a mess right now. Lots of talents that feel like they should be baseline because they were, or talents that just don’t synergize well.
We're going to swap Haunt (was lvl 15, now lvl 90) with Deathbolt (was lvl 90, now lvl 15) in the talent tree in the next build. This fulfills a desire (mentioned several times here) to be able to play a Nightfall + Haunt or Drain Soul + Haunt build, which a lot of players think is fun (and is fair feedback).

The reason we made the last round of talent swaps, which saw Nightfall and Drain Soul move to level 15, and Shadow Embrace and Haunt move to level 90, was to satisfy a different desire (as players mentioned even in this thread) to allow Drain Soul and Grimoire of Sacrifice to be taken together, as both are identity, feel, and greatly gameplay changing. That also seemed reasonable.

Separately, that also had the benefit of allowing Nightfall and Drain Soul to be acquirable earlier at lvl 15, since they are both great leveling talents and good to have early.

To make room for Nightfall and Drain Soul on the lvl 15 row, we chose to move Shadow Embrace and Deathbolt together (as opposed to Shadow Embrace and Haunt) because Shadow Embrace and Haunt are pretty similar - they both provide a damage taken debuff with or near 100% uptime. That's still true, but it seems better overall to live with that, look for opportunities to improve/replace Shadow Embrace in the future, and support a Nightfall + Haunt build.

So the new layout looks like:
Row 15: Nightfall, Drain Soul, Deathbolt
Row 90: Shadow Embrace, Haunt, Grimoire of Sacrifice

On the topic of talent tree layouts in general for all specs - it's always a list of competing, sometimes contradictory desires, all of which are valid to some varying degrees:
  • "All talents on a row should be equal"
  • "Some talents should better in some situations"
  • "Talents on the same row shouldn't clearly be better in single target or AOE vs other talents on the same row"
  • "Difficult to use talents should be a little more rewarding than easy to use talents"
  • "Talents shouldn't be too similar to each other"
  • "Players should be allowed to pick whatever talent they find the most fun"
  • "The strongest talent should probably be the most fun one"
And so on. It’s often not possible to satisfy all requirements, so it becomes sort of finding the best configuration that satisfies as many desires as possible, and iterating on improvements for the future.

As usual, we're always open to feedback.
^^ This works for me - The move for haunt is great
I appreciate the feedback and letting us know that you were still reading and checking for us.

Since like you stated Haunt and Shadow embrace are so similar
Choosing between shadow embrace/haunt/Grimore of sacrifice feels equal for me and does not feel like I'm loosing my choice of fillers which was the original issue I had with drain soul coming back.

I appreciate the feedback and iteration occurring.
I'll try it when the new build drops, I have a sneaky suspicion that DB is going to fall into the "interesting ideas that didn't pan out" category with this change.

06/05/2018 02:59 PMPosted by Seph
And so on. It’s often not possible to satisfy all requirements, so it becomes sort of finding the best configuration that satisfies as many desires as possible, and iterating on improvements for the future.

NP-Complete problems are NP-Complete, and that's not including how the community feels!
It’s shaping to be interesting. As a drain soul lover, I think using haunt is a very good build for single target with lots movement.

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