Windwalker Monk - Blackout Kick cooldown.

Legion Class Development
04/06/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Puzzlepopple
went to a trainer to verify, and yeah i kinda agree it forces you into the combo strikes rotation even if you have combo strikes. often times you have the chi and you can't spend it. you have to wait a couple seconds while not very noticable at first it does change the feel of the spec. If i want to spam a weak ability like BOK becuase i have the chi why not. I know it will hurt combo strikes and my mastery but not doing damage feels worse.

I've found a similar issue regarding a build up of chi. When RsK and FoF are on CD its not uncommon to find myself fully stacked on chi and nothing to spend it on. I've been doing single target ScK just to have something to do instead of TP.

I was also kind of wondering if theres even really a use for the talent that gives us 6 chi outside of spamming crane kick. Always being stacked on chi makes an extra orb seem a bit excessive imo but the extra energy and regen is nice. I think they should simply roll back the changes and make it how it is on live.
1 chi
No CD with the passive allowing for a free cast with no chi spent
I know I am not the best monk but this change and no artifact weapon really slowed down the monk rotations. Keeping up hit combo will be dull when it nothing to do but wait on CDs or spam that tiger jab for free kicks and drop hit combo.
Conspiracy theory timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

have you guys noticed over the years how we've had continuous ability pruning? Granted I fully admit I do NOT miss having 36 keybinds like I did for this hunter years ago, but I digress....

Dumbing down of the game > less buttons >... boy this game starts looking more and more like you could play it on a controller. Mark my words: next expack this game is coming to consoles.

Please read this sentence and study it well, devs. If it's a damage output issue, adjust the damage. Do not mess with the flow of this class.
If there is a situation where despite our mastery, casting the same ability twice in a row is a DPS gain and not a loss then that is a good thing Blizzard. This opens up freedom in gameplay. Allows the player to make decisions on when to weave and when to spam, including giving the player options in talents that can alter the amount of weaving or spamming.

If spamming is such a problem, address why it's a problem instead of removing it altogether. Lower the cd reduction (don't remove it though, I like that mechanic). Make hit Combo 8 stacks again.

I just feel like the no cd BoK with cd reduction opens up a lot of interesting gameplay choices, and the cd removed it all.

Also, if you make the choice to keep the cd give it haste scaling. This isn't a request, it is a necessary change to not kill off WW.
04/05/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Evielth
Another thing to remember is as you level your weapon isn't maxed. If I recall there are many traits that help (procs. Extra energy. That sort of stuff) which could fix your rotation. Also stats in gear as well would help them over you.
I literally said that in the post you quoted, dude.
This change just shows me even further the mindset of the Class Development team. It's getting seriously very pathetic. Do these guys have the intellectual level of a 5 year old? Come on man!
04/07/2018 11:05 AMPosted by Rïtual
Conspiracy theory timeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

have you guys noticed over the years how we've had continuous ability pruning? Granted I fully admit I do NOT miss having 36 keybinds like I did for this hunter years ago, but I digress....

Dumbing down of the game > less buttons >... boy this game starts looking more and more like you could play it on a controller. Mark my words: next expack this game is coming to consoles.

Please read this sentence and study it well, devs. If it's a damage output issue, adjust the damage. Do not mess with the flow of this class.


It probably is a damage issue, but likely just with the extra damage via any extra RSKs/FOFs over the course of a battle caused by the reduction BoK gives on them.

The cooldown is there to limit the amount of reduction going out, but they really should have just put that 3 seconds as an internal cooldown on the reduction BoK gives instead of BoK itself.
This is why we need better dev communication. We need to know why every freaking change they make slow down game play, make gameplay more shallow, and more boring.

Putting everything on the gcd, increasing the gcd to 1.5, adding cooldowns to everything, increasing the cooldowns on everything...

Make it stop, get better class devs
Regarding the 1.5s GCD change, I was roped into trying out other MMOs that have similar GCDs, and what I found was slow, unituitive gameplay. At high levels, there were several off gcd abilities that were available. You didn't wash them on CD either, you looked for windows to use certain ones during the fight to boost you and your party's success.

They have quoted this as the intended design direction for RET PALLY. They slow the spec down so the player can look for useful opportunities to throw out team based CDs. If I were to speculate at the trend of things, they want gameplay to move this direction for all classes. Slightly slower, and with a few spare gcd/minute to fill with utility.

Speculation about WHY this is happening. The line about ret pally is real though. I will try to find the blue.
04/07/2018 08:00 PMPosted by Sagori
Regarding the 1.5s GCD change, I was roped into trying out other MMOs that have similar GCDs, and what I found was slow, unituitive gameplay. At high levels, there were several off gcd abilities that were available. You didn't wash them on CD either, you looked for windows to use certain ones during the fight to boost you and your party's success.

They have quoted this as the intended design direction for RET PALLY. They slow the spec down so the player can look for useful opportunities to throw out team based CDs. If I were to speculate at the trend of things, they want gameplay to move this direction for all classes. Slightly slower, and with a few spare gcd/minute to fill with utility.

Speculation about WHY this is happening. The line about ret pally is real though. I will try to find the blue.


So really the cooldown on BoK could just be there to slow down the spec/make combat overall slower? Ew. I honestly like the combat being quicker paced as melee, if I wanted slower combat I'd rather just end up playing affliction lock or something else with more consistent damage but slower build up or the like.
04/04/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Rïtual
04/04/2018 11:45 AMPosted by Theïkós
1 step foward 2 steps backwards. What the actual !@#$.

Is it at least reduced by haste...?


I haven't checked, to be honest. Even if it were, the amount of haste needed to bring it closer in line to live would probably be completely silly and not worth going for.


You would need 50% haste to bring it to a 2 second cooldown if it scaled. No way that's going to be achievable lol.

04/05/2018 06:58 PMPosted by Aled
The oddest part is that this objective (and the more likely real target, preventing BoK spam under high-haste conditions) could have been accomplished with a 2s CD.


I have no idea what the objective is so we'll all probably have to wait to see the full scope of changes but if the 3 second cooldown really was intended to prevent the bok spam then I agree it should just be dropped to 2 seconds so it doesn't impact gameplay.
04/08/2018 07:24 PMPosted by Talbyy
I have no idea what the objective is so we'll all probably have to wait to see the full scope of changes but if the 3 second cooldown really was intended to prevent the bok spam then I agree it should just be dropped to 2 seconds so it doesn't impact gameplay.


Yea the change could be any number of reasons.
  • Avoid BoK spamming
  • Tuning nob for the cooldown reduction on RSK and FoF
  • Slowing down the spec
  • Avoid un-intended mechanics with Serenity.
  • Make it more consistant with bok's cooldown for Mistweaver and blackout strike for Brewmaster
I'm just hoping that we see more iterations in this weeks build to get a full grasp on what to expect.
Sorry for not catching this thread sooner--the change to Blackout Kick cooldown wasn't intended, and should be reverted in an upcoming alpha.
04/09/2018 05:11 PMPosted by Sigma
Sorry for not catching this thread sooner--the change to Blackout Kick cooldown wasn't intended, and should be reverted in an upcoming alpha.


Thanks!
should be reverted in an upcoming alpha.


Next expansion, then?
04/09/2018 05:11 PMPosted by Sigma
Sorry for not catching this thread sooner--the change to Blackout Kick cooldown wasn't intended, and should be reverted in an upcoming alpha.


Faith in WW restored. Thank you for the communication!
That's great news! One of the best parts of WW was always the fast, frantic, and fluid rotation, and BOK having no CD certainly helps maintain that.
Personally I would not mind if there was a 2 second cooldown, just to force the mastery but that is just me.
04/09/2018 05:11 PMPosted by Sigma
Sorry for not catching this thread sooner--the change to Blackout Kick cooldown wasn't intended, and should be reverted in an upcoming alpha.


Man, I was kinda hoping y'all would have said something like this in response to the amount of pruning that has happened the last couple expansions. One can dream though!

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