Alliance High Elves as a Playable Race

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ALLIANCE HIGH ELVES AS A PLAYABLE RACE

Since Blue response thread capped: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762127620?page=7#post-122

NEW April 12th, 2018: TALIESIN AND EVITEL MADE A VIDEO ON HIGH ELVES! SUPPORTING THEIR INCLUSION FOR ALLIANCE!

It's Time For High Elves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Sr-sadSk4

Taliesin made the video with the purpose of disproving High Elves, BUT after researching as he was making it, he realized that they actually do qualify as an Alliance Allied Race. Here are all his criteria that High Elves meet listed as is in the video:

1. Are they a different enough race to existing playable options? - CHECK
2. Are there enough of them? - CHECK
3. Are they relevant? - CHECK
4. Do they look different enough? - CHECK
(4th not an essential criteria: not met by all other allied races)

The last 6 minutes of the video where he discusses why Void Elves were the wrong answer for High Elf fans and how Void Elves do not meet the criteria that all other allied races meet. Taliesin even mentions The Alurna Manifest of High Elves and showcases his argument for High Elves by presenting the fan art concepts done by our High Elf supporters!

https://youtu.be/C2Sr-sadSk4?t=16m24s

I think Blizzard consider this our playable High Elf and there's no doubt that having Void Elves, having these models as Alliance options definitely makes it feel like the 'genuine' High Elves people want are less likely than ever. This [Void Elves] feels like an answer.....except it doesn't though, does it?

And making this video has made me realize why: I wanted to make a very fair and even-handed case for each argument, for and against, Alliance High Elves to help myself decide as much as anything. So I created this list of criteria that I think the Alliance races all share to see if High Elves could fit in with that, and as we've seen they do fit those criteria. But I've come to realize, Void Elves don't.


NEW April 5th, 2018: WE'VE BEEN NOTICED MY HIGH ELVEN BRETHREN AND LADIES! GET TO THEORYCRAFTING BOYS AND GIRLS!

WoW Battle for Azeroth Dev Interview - Islands and Wrathion

https://youtu.be/HyDQF0SisAA?t=4m13s

Time: 4:13-5:10 (End where High Elves are mentioned)!

Perculia: And you've kinda touched on this before, but talking about the Golden Blood Elves a lot of players were really surprised to see that. Especially because Ion at the past Q&A just said it wasn't really a top priority to do customization for older races, so that was really cool to see. Are more little touch-ups like that on the way and was the Golden Blood Elf Eyes something that was a long time coming?.. Or just - it was really funny timing seeing it appear right after it was said it wasn't a priority.

Jeremy Feasel "Muffinus": Yeah so as with anything on the World of Warcraft team, the things that we announce and say at Blizzcon may change significantly over the course of the year. I think what we're finding is that we love the ability to add more player customization options, it's super cool. We found that players have been responding very positive to it. So we'd like to continue doing although we don't have anything to announce quite yet. We would love to hear all of your ideas! Please post them on the forums, let us know what you'd like to see. -Points and looks at camera- It's High Elves :)


Reason for this thread:
At Blizzcon, the WoW developers asked the community to provide feedback and suggestions on future Allied Races they'd like to see - this is ours!

Purpose of this thread:
  • Brainstorming ideas how to EVENTUALLY implement and diversify High Elves, so they don't step on Blood Elves' toes.
  • We will be discussing model alterations, idle stance, animations, customization options, class selection, as well as their overall culture and story.
  • We fully understand that if HE do happen, it won't be any time soon. Probably not until every baseline race gets an Allied Race counterpart (i.e. Worgen>Sethrak; Goblin>Vulpera).

Goals of this thread:
  • Aid Blizzard in the eventual implementation of a High Elf Allied Race, in a way that is most acceptable for the majority of the WoW community by providing ideas and suggestions.
  • We do not want "Blood Elves on the Alliance" - those are Void Elves.
  • We do not want to "take away an Allied Race slot" - we are aiming for further down the line, after everyone else has taken their turn.


Please note: These threads have been going on for quite some time, and most of the arguments have already been had quite extensively. The below are some examples of the most common, and while people are free to post what they like, anyone making these arguments will likely not get a response.

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FAQs/Common Counterarguments:

“Aren’t High Elves Just Blood Elves With Blue Eyes?”

Leaving the lore differences aside, model-wise, currently, yes. Blizzard has a long track record of having less developed models for races that are not currently playable. If made playable, it is very likely that these models would see some kind of revisiting to further differentiate them from Blood Elves, similar to tweaks Nightborne got in comparison to Night Elves. Common suggestions have been: changing the idle stances and animations, which would change the silhouette, a more “human”-like model modified from the current Human or Night Elf models, slimmed down, or customization specific traits like tattoos, war paints, or distinct hairstyle choices, among others.

“There aren’t enough High Elves left, I thought?”

The Silver Covenant, the militarized organization of Dalaran High Elves (which have recently been clarified as being more numerous than once thought), have been present for many of the Alliance’s military operations in the past several expansions and have consistently fielded numbers that would suggest there are plenty of them left. Similarly, Quel’Danil lodge in the Hinterlands and the Allerian Stronghold in Outland both show other independently organized High Elf forces that are not suffering in numbers. In addition, Stormwind has its own High Elf population. There is more than enough evidence to suggest High Elves have enough numbers to be appropriate for an Allied Race, especially compared to what has been shown as appropriate for other examples such as the Lightforged or the Void Elves.

Source: In-game representation, out of game official canon text such as Chronicle


“I don’t want to see any more elves in this game!”

This is a subjective opinion, and a valid one, but not a reasonable argument against other people’s ability to ask for what they would also subjectively like to see.

"What about Void Elves?”

Void Elves were specifically and deliberately set up as being recent exiles from Silvermoon among the Blood Elf population. Their presence does not continue the separate High Elf story in any way and thus is not a reason for them not to be added.

“High Elves = Blood Elves = Void Elves”

Both the in-game lore and the out of game official canon texts have very clearly set up the Thalassian elves as a split people, and the themes of mutual High Elf and Blood Elf resentment for each other is what led to the creation of the Silver Covenant in the first place. Furthermore, Chronicle has drawn further attention to the fact on some level this split was in the process of happening before Kael’Thas even renamed those who followed him to Blood Elves: tensions existed between the High Elves who chose to live in Dalaran and those who lived in Silvermoon, the latter considering the former to prefer the company of humans over the love of their own homeland.

Sources: In-game representation and lore as presented through Alliance questing, as well as out-of-game official canon text such as Chronicle.


“High Elves will cause population bleed on Horde side.”

Considering Allied Races have so far required extra steps, such as having a max level character on the appropriate faction and gating behind reputations, along with the fact that Allied Races also have restricted class options (Death Knight and Demon Hunter are both very popular classes and would likely not be available), this outcome is unlikely. Adding to that, the fact that Horde edges out Alliance population-wise slightly at max level, and the fact that Void Elves, which brought the Blood Elf model to the Alliance to begin with, did not impact overall faction balance, and this is very likely not a very serious concern.
I thought it would be neat to be the first poster here.

Or not who knows we will find out when i press add reply
Give us the Alliance High Elves we are due, Blizzard! <3
no
Hey we're back! Support as always.
04/19/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Eärendiil
no
No U.

But I do respect the honest simplicity of your point.
Ah, here it is. Continuing my support guys! Was wondering when it'd pop up.
Continuing to refine these, input would be great.

Things to discern High Elves from Blood Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Tattoos/Warpaint like Alleria.
-Different Hair/Facial hair styles with Blue/White hair colors and no red hair color.
-Blue Eyes. (Duh!)

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Different idle stances. Like between Female Night Elves/Nightborne.
-Slightly different physique. Possibly buffer/metier than the average Blood Elf because they mostly live in the forest and/or highly Militarised. About as different as Nightborne males from Night Elf males or less so.
-More practical building designs. Like altered versions of the Lodges.
-Celtic themes to tie it all together.
-Ranger-esque Heritage armor. Something rugged and outdoorsy/military-ish.

Recruitment Concept
With the war in full force and the fate of Azeroth in the balance, Valeria seeks to reunite her people under the banner of the Silver Covenant. She ask your help in traveling to the various High Elven settlements to help win them over to her cause as full fledged members of the Alliance.

Also Undead Elves/San'Layn/Dark Ranger because they contrast well with High Elves.

Things to discern Undead Elves from Blood Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Black marks under their eyes like Sylvanas.
-Darker more muted hair colors. With White/Grey hair options.
-Grey/Black/White skin.
-Red Eyes.

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Bandages to hide rot because they are more vain than other undead.
-Slightly skinnier because they are dead. Ribs showing etc.
-Sylvanas's "Banshee" form as a racial. Possibly Vampiric Racials as well?
-Gothic themes to tie it all together.
-Sylvanas based Heritage Armor.

Recruitment Concept
A small group of San'Layn survived Ice Crown and returned to their homeland to live out their "lives" in peace. They live with other undead elves and have taught them the use of Blood Magic and the powers of Vampirism. Sylvans wants to use their powers to augment her Dark Rangers and tries to get them to join the Horde.

Any additional thoughts?
From the last thread, since I didn't get a chance to respond before it capped...

I would just like one of you folks to be able to answer me a single question. I've asked several times and it gets ignored.

Are the Defias still human?

They are Stormwind humans who got mad and went off to make their own faction. They still exist in much smaller numbers, but they hate Stormwind and presumably whatever Alliance allies wander into their sphere.

Would you guys be fine with it if "Defias humans" were added as an Allied race? Are they still human or not?


To be clear, if this question is "would I be cool with the Horde getting Defias humans as an Allied Race?", then the answer is hell yes I'd be cool with that!

I'd personally prefer that the Syndicate humans be used just for the Alterac connection since they have previous workings with the horde. But in either case, a rogue human faction that has enough of a beef with Stormwind to sign up with the Horde could make for some really interesting story potential, and the Defias storyline would be great to see continued in that way.
Did the last thread already cap? Anywho, popping in to show my support.
My support!
04/19/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Tabasa
From the last thread, since I didn't get a chance to respond before it capped...

I would just like one of you folks to be able to answer me a single question. I've asked several times and it gets ignored.

Are the Defias still human?

They are Stormwind humans who got mad and went off to make their own faction. They still exist in much smaller numbers, but they hate Stormwind and presumably whatever Alliance allies wander into their sphere.

Would you guys be fine with it if "Defias humans" were added as an Allied race? Are they still human or not?


To be clear, if this question is "would I be cool with the Horde getting Defias humans as an Allied Race?", then the answer is hell yes I'd be cool with that! I'd personally prefer that Syndicate humans be used just for the Alterac connection since they have previous workings with the horde. But in either case, a rogue human faction that has enough of a beef with Stormwind to sign up with the Horde could make for some really interesting story potential, and the Defias storyline would be great to see continued in that way.
Personally the only human model I wouldn't mind on Horde is the Nathanos Undead model. Not actual living humans.
04/19/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Nagchompa
Did the last thread already cap? Anywho, popping in to show my support.

Yep! They're capping quite fast!
As for the fear of High Elf story arc eclipsing Blood Elf stories... which was brought up last thread, I think that deserves a response as its a semi-valid though not grounded in reality concern. Here is why that isn't a real concern.

That isn't an issue because Allied Races don't need storylines. We already have the High Elf storyline. Much as we already have the Dark Iron storyline, the Mag'har storyline. Allied Races aren't necessarily meant to have big in game story arcs after their introduction. The point is "Well, we know this race, we know their storyline, lets play that race we know and love."

It isn't as if people are asking for a 1-10 leveling zone focused on them or a massive story arc. We already have the story arc.

Storylines only matter for races that either don't have much storyline at all (Void Elves) or it goes along with what the dev team is already doing (Zandi Trolls and KT Humans). Dark Irons likely will not be getting some huge storyline. Maybe some new NPC's and a quest giver. Big whoop. High Elves, if/when included would get what? Some end game warfront quest giver? Maybe some NPC's? Blood Elves have an entire expansion's worth of content, two zones, and an ongoing story arc as is. Allied races don't need, nor are they intended for big story arcs. Dark Irons are done. I don't expect some big development of the Nightborne story now that the Suramar campaign is over. At best there will be an NPC quest giver maybe at some point.

So I think we can put that concern to rest. Blood Elf story will be fine. If the NPC storyline of High Elves didn't destroy Blood Elf lore, than an Allied Race won't either since there will be less story telling about them now since you are playing them.
From the last thread, since I didn't get a chance to respond before it capped...

<span class="truncated">...</span>

To be clear, if this question is "would I be cool with the Horde getting Defias humans as an Allied Race?", then the answer is hell yes I'd be cool with that! I'd personally prefer that Syndicate humans be used just for the Alterac connection since they have previous workings with the horde. But in either case, a rogue human faction that has enough of a beef with Stormwind to sign up with the Horde could make for some really interesting story potential, and the Defias storyline would be great to see continued in that way.
Personally the only human model I wouldn't mind on Horde is the Nathanos Undead model. Not actual living humans.


I'm cool with that too, but the question we were posed seemed to be suggesting that person wanted the Defias as a hypothetical.

That's assuming that they were actually making that suggestion in good faith and not fishing for a "gotcha", that is.
04/19/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Tabasa
From the last thread, since I didn't get a chance to respond before it capped...

...

To be clear, if this question is "would I be cool with the Horde getting Defias humans as an Allied Race?", then the answer is hell yes I'd be cool with that! I'd personally prefer that Syndicate humans be used just for the Alterac connection since they have previous workings with the horde. But in either case, a rogue human faction that has enough of a beef with Stormwind to sign up with the Horde could make for some really interesting story potential, and the Defias storyline would be great to see continued in that way.
Personally the only human model I wouldn't mind on Horde is the Nathanos Undead model. Not actual living humans.
While that isn't the San'lyan that @Fallynn has managed to stir my hype for, I'd find that an interesting thing to play as well. But I like Fallynn San'lyan idea more, sorry Nathanos fans. D:
I'm cool with that too, but the question we were posed seemed to be suggesting that person wanted the Defias.

That's assuming that they were actually making that request in good faith and not fishing for a "gotcha", that is.
It wasn't even a well hidden "Gotcha" its like it had a big red sign say "This is a trap!"
04/19/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Damnonii
I'm cool with that too, but the question we were posed seemed to be suggesting that person wanted the Defias.

That's assuming that they were actually making that request in good faith and not fishing for a "gotcha", that is.
It wasn't even a well hidden "Gotcha" its like it had a big red sign say "This is a trap!"


Well, sure. But the fact that it was something I'd genuinely be interested in seeing made it that much more fun, haha.
Alliance High Elves as a Playable Race Part 21 - now smaller and lighter for your convenience and pleasure :D The rest of our OP is in the blue post thread anyway :)

Anywho, the MMO-C thread's OP posted some -amazing- new concept art, made by Jokubas on MMO-C:

Skin tones:
http://oi173.photobucket.com/albums/w73/Dulafen/Jokubas_Skin_v2.png

http://oi173.photobucket.com/albums/w73/Dulafen/Jokubas_Skin_v3.png


Faces:
https://i.imgur.com/6tANuuc.png

https://i.imgur.com/YguZFuI.png


Hair styles:
https://i.imgur.com/fPzbWwT.png

https://i.imgur.com/sjZWghH.png
04/19/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Damnonii
I'm cool with that too, but the question we were posed seemed to be suggesting that person wanted the Defias.

That's assuming that they were actually making that request in good faith and not fishing for a "gotcha", that is.
It wasn't even a well hidden "Gotcha" its like it had a big red sign say "This is a trap!"

I think that's probably why they were skipped over so much. While we love to argue, we've generally gotten a tad better at ignoring bait.

Having said that we all did reply to her right at the end of the last thread so you know we've got a ways to go I guess.

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