San'layn/Darkfallen as an Allied Race

General Discussion
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Could San'layn be an Allied Race in Battle for Azeroth? We discussed wanting them added, but they have potential to actually be a thing now! SEE THE SPOILERS SECTION BELOW!

Original Ideas

The Story
Let's start off with debunking the myth that all San'layn are extinct. Like the Blood elves or high elves, indeed they'd be low in number. We understand however that a race low in number can still be played perfectly fine by the playerbase--see Blood Elves and the new Void Elves. Ren'dorei are a small section of the Sin'dorei, in fact, that ended up being exiled. Take a tiny fragment of an already extremely small population and make an entire race out of that! Blizzard has done it once and they can do it again if it makes sense. But back to the extinct issue. Now, we've seen major San'layn leaders destroyed by the heroes of Azeroth, most notably Lana'thel. But we know that not all were actually killed off--the Blood Princess in the current Legion expansion is a good example of this. While we do kill her in Violet Hold, she is a good indication that the race is still there and did not suddenly keel over dead upon the death of Lana'thel (a ridiculous notion anyway).

I'd like to mention the missing Blood Princes; see: https://wow.gamepedia.com/San%27layn . I will mention the princes here, too: Prince Theraldis, Prince Atherann, and Blood Lord Vorath (he was in the TCG so might not be considered in lore itself, I am not sure on that one.) Any one of the above could be ambassadors for the San'layn joining either faction of the current dynamic (I will get into what faction I see them joining in a moment.)

We see the highest concentration of San'layn in En'kilah, where we are tasked with offing Prince Valanar. There is a huge concentration of NPC San'layn there, and while many of them could have been wiped out, a few could have survived and avoided detection to further work for the Lich King, only to have their wills freed upon Arthas being slain. I will get more into the discussion of 'will' in a moment as well. But anyway, the concentration of San'layn were only seen as NPCs there as well. We never saw the Ren'dorei in any location, including Ghostlands, until right when they were introduced, and they were inserted as potentially being in Ghostlands at some point in time. What's not to say a section of San'layn were hiding out somewhere in Icecrown? Or Grizzly Hills? Or other areas in the Borean Tundra? It's not that much of a stretch to say strategic forces were scattered along Northrend and then found themselves without a leader upon the death of Lana'thel and Arthas.

Now then, would their wills be bound to the new Lich King? Or could they break from the will or even have had broken from the will of Arthas (an odd sect of San'layn, anyway) like Death Knights? The Darkfallen were selected as among the most intelligent of undead. It is not a stretch to say that when the Arthas's control began to fade upon the undead, they broke from him just like the Death Knights. Many simply continued to work for him, but a few could have taken other routes or hidden.

We would have on our hands a shattered force of vampyr Blood Elves all around Northrend in this case--potentially being brought together by these princes. What would these elves seek to do? Continue to spread terror and rip people to shreds? Or could they potentially join a faction and, like the Death Knights, be accepted and integrated back into places they once called home? Remember, Death Knights were seen as mindless killing machines at one point, and we've seen that they did regain their personalities back, with one catch of course. They must continue to cause suffering in one way or another. These elves could have regained themselves with that same catch--the need, however, would be shifted to needing to feed off of living races' blood or energy. Not unlike what Blood Elves have to do in general, really, but with the San'layn they'd benefit much more from blood and its magics in general.

Let's take a look into more lore. We were introduced to more issues on the vampyr this expansion in Stormheim, most notable the vampirates. They were compared to the San'layn, as a matter of fact, which was interesting... and then Lucard enters the picture. We kill him, and he says, "I.. am not... defeated...". Then, Mrrgleton comments, "Vampyr CAN be killed, can't they?" What could this imply? Could Lana'thel potentially be brought back, should those missing princes not be used? Did she really die at all--could she have been weakened or actually have drank enough blood of the heroes to appear dead but actually manage to flee while they were taking on Arthas? Again, this is speculation on how all of this could be possible, and who their leader could be.

Now, what faction would they join? Who is the most likely to take them in? Easy. The Horde. Sylvanas needs more soldiers for her war against the alliance in the upcoming expansion. Her own kind is there within the San'layn, and they'd be very powerful assets to add to her ranks. She could give them purpose again and a chance to return to society rather than hide as creatures that should be killed on sight. Sylvanas is sure to know about the San'layn and the vampyr within Stormheim. What if she journies to Northrend and sends out messages to these princes, or sends out search parties, or even is contacted by a member of the San'layn who seeks to ally with her for a number of reasons?

I know a lot of these ideas are a stretch, but I figured I'd bring them up anyway. Rather than say 'no' or 'no more elves', I'd appreciate actual, well thought-out feedback on this matter.

The Classes
->Mage
->Rogue
->Hunter
->Death Knight (like forsaken Death Knights, they could have been around then as well!)
->Priest
->Paladin (This one is a big stretch but we do see San'layn Blood Knights in the Blood Halls)
->Warrior
->Warlock

Potential Racial Mounts
-Skeletal Hawkstriders
-Skeletal Lynxes
-Bats (Land bats, there wouldn't be flying as it is a racial mount)
-Spiders
-----------------------------

Support for this has been greatly appreciated! San'layn would be a good thing to add along with High Elves, which would even out things if elf--elf are added.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying to add this race before others like ogre, dwarves, and other races people really want, because we have a lot of elves already. I was saying if they do add High Elves, San'layn would be a good fit for the Horde for the reasons I stated.

04/18/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Drede
Might as well post this here too.

Designs for Undead Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Black marks under their eyes like Sylvanas.
-Darker more muted hair colors. With White/Grey hair options.
-Grey/Black/White skin.
-Red Eyes.

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Bandages to hide rot because they are more vain than other undead.
-Slightly skinnier because they are dead. Ribs showing etc.
-Sylvanas's "Banshee" form as a racial. Possibly Vampiric Racials as well?
-Gothic themes to tie it all together.

Recruitment concept
A small group of San'Layn survived Ice Crown and returned to their homeland to live out their "lives" in peace. They live with other undead elves and have taught them the use of Blood Magic and the powers of Vampirism. Sylvans wants to use their powers to augment her Dark Rangers and tries to get them to join the Horde.

Or

Sylvanas has you raid Icecrown Citadel for a mysterious coffin. After almost dying you find a San'Layn inside and Sylvanas makes him an offer he can't refuse.

Any additional thoughts?


Joke ideas:
(Mine)
-At least we don't sparkle either.
-What am I doing? Nothing much, just San'layin around.
-It's so hard getting dental work done when every dentist you see runs screaming.
-I vant to suck your blood! Or have it in a smoothie. That sounds nice too.
-No, we don't consume void energy--that's the Ren'dorei. Totally different emo elf.
-My favorite color is red. For the Horde, why would you think there's other reasons?
-I actually don't mind the worgen all that much, aside from their constant yapping.
-Too many elves, you say? You haven't met the murlocs yet.
-I see a black door and I want it painted red.
-You think we're hot? You haven't seen Bolvar yet, have you?
-We take the 'Blood' in 'Blood elf' very seriously.

Flirts:
Madrigala="Don't worry, I won't bite. At least, not unless you want me to...."
Nicrowy="I hunger for you... not your blood, of course"
Nicrowy=
- if you were a blood type, you'd be my favorite
- Is that Bloodlust I'm sensing - or just lust?
- Is there room for two in your coffin?
- You're so beautiful I think my heart just stopped. Wow it really did!
- You're like the sun you're so hot you make my blood boil
- Will you turn into bat for me? A long, hard one?

------------
[SPOILERS]
There is no guarantee of the San'layn being allied races yet, however we do see a genuine BLOOD PRINCE in Battle for Azeroth!
See: http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=138795/blood-prince-dreven

Also, take a look at this broadcast text:

Blood Prince Dreven and Gallywix
We will deal with Blood Prince Dreven soon, General. But this is a rare opportunity to cripple the Horde's military. Everything else must wait.
We can kill that gluttonous goblin any day! If Dreven escapes, we may never find him again.
Gallywix funds the Horde's war campaign and understands Azerite better than the rest of them.
You saw what Dreven was capable of, Wyrmbane. What if there are more like him?
Forgive my interruption, but I believe you're both right.
We cannot let either of these opportunities escape us... And we don't need to.
Allow your new allies, the void elves, to lead the charge in eliminating Gallywix.
We will hunt him down and bring you his head, while Shandris maintains our focus on tracking that Blood Prince.
A wise strategy. I approve.
Thank you, Alleria. Your aid is most welcome.
Full support. Always wished San'layn could be made available. They're like Vampires and that's super awesome to me :)
no
04/18/2018 03:12 PMPosted by Dhumah
Full support. Always wished San'layn could be made available. They're like Vampires and that's super awesome to me :)


Welcome to the thread and thank you very much! Also for your advice on how to keep this going, we'd been having a good discussion ^^
Might as well post this here too.

Designs for Undead Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Black marks under their eyes like Sylvanas.
-Darker more muted hair colors. With White/Grey hair options.
-Grey/Black/White skin.
-Red Eyes.

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Bandages to hide rot because they are more vain than other undead.
-Slightly skinnier because they are dead. Ribs showing etc.
-Sylvanas's "Banshee" form as a racial. Possibly Vampiric Racials as well?
-Gothic themes to tie it all together.

Recruitment concept
A small group of San'Layn survived Ice Crown and returned to their homeland to live out their "lives" in peace. They live with other undead elves and have taught them the use of Blood Magic and the powers of Vampirism. Sylvans wants to use their powers to augment her Dark Rangers and tries to get them to join the Horde.

Or

Sylvanas has you raid Icecrown Citadel for a mysterious coffin. After almost dying you find a San'Layn inside and Sylvanas makes him an offer he can't refuse.

Any additional thoughts?
04/18/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Drede
Might as well post this here too.

Designs for Undead Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Black marks under their eyes like Sylvanas.
-Darker more muted hair colors. With White/Grey hair options.
-Grey/Black/White skin.
-Red Eyes.

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Bandages to hide rot because they are more vain than other undead.
-Slightly skinnier because they are dead. Ribs showing etc.
-Sylvanas's "Banshee" form as a racial. Possibly Vampiric Racials as well?
-Gothic themes to tie it all together.

Recruitment concept
A small group of San'Layn survived Ice Crown and returned to their homeland to live out their "lives" in peace. They live with other undead elves and have taught them the use of Blood Magic and the powers of Vampirism. Sylvans wants to use their powers to augment her Dark Rangers and tries to get them to join the Horde.

Or

Sylvanas has you raid Icecrown Citadel for a mysterious coffin. After almost dying you find a San'Layn inside and Sylvanas makes him an offer he can't refuse.

Any additional thoughts?


Perfect, thank you! Actually let me quote you and add it to the top thread as well!
world of elfcraft fellas
Would it have hurt to link to your original thread on this so that it doesn't look like you've literally just started the whole conversation over again?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762197320

I mean, the other thread capped, so it's great that the discussion is continuing! It's just weird that you're basically restarting it with the exact same post without any relevant continuation information.
04/18/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Grathok
Would it have hurt to link to your original thread on this so that it doesn't look like you've literally just started the whole conversation over again?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762197320

I mean, the other thread capped, so it's great that the discussion is continuing! It's just weird that you're basically restarting it with the exact same post without any relevant continuation information.


Not allowed to link threads, something I was told x.x I was information gathering from the other thread, unfortunately I can't actually "Quote" from it to continue the conversation.
04/18/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Fallynn
Perfect, thank you! Actually let me quote you and add it to the top thread as well!


Oh, neat.

Probably because you're not allowed to link threads? There's rules, you know.


You can link threads, just not in the OP
Oh... well in that case, thank you Grathok, that works. I don't have to information farm now, I wanted to snag all of the good ideas I saw but there was a HUGE amount and I woulda sat there for hours.

Plus, I'm not sure if there's an actual character/word limit per post, so I'd have run into "Save" aaaand find out, "Error! Post too long!" if so.
Full support.
Vampyr are the only possible Horde race I'd be interested in lore-wise/theme-wise aside from Ogres.

And yeah, linking previous threads isn't allowed, we of the High Elf thread have learned it the hard way x.x
04/18/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Wiccan
Full support.
Vampyr are the only possible Horde race I'd be interested in lore-wise/theme-wise aside from Ogres.

And yeah, linking previous threads isn't allowed, we of the High Elf thread have learned it the hard way x.x

Storytime?!
04/18/2018 03:33 PMPosted by Fallynn
04/18/2018 03:31 PMPosted by Wiccan
Full support.
Vampyr are the only possible Horde race I'd be interested in lore-wise/theme-wise aside from Ogres.

And yeah, linking previous threads isn't allowed, we of the High Elf thread have learned it the hard way x.x

Storytime?!


Nothing major, just our OP/thread titles being edited to remove links/numbers a couple of times. Didn't know what was going on. We talked with the Forum Moderator team via tickets and they explained it was against forum rules, it's all good now :)
04/18/2018 03:27 PMPosted by Fallynn
Not allowed to link threads, something I was told x.x I was information gathering from the other thread, unfortunately I can't actually "Quote" from it to continue the conversation.
04/18/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Fallynn
Perfect, thank you! Actually let me quote you and add it to the top thread as well!


Oh, neat.
Probably because you're not allowed to link threads? There's rules, you know.
You can link threads, just not in the OP
I've seen people link threads in the OP before, though doing a normal quote obviously wouldn't work because you can't click a "quote" button because posting on the capped thread is disabled (also, manually entering the quoted post number similarly doesn't work). :P But at least mentioning or changing the thread title to say "part 2" or something it would probably have helped. ;) You can also just copy-paste everything into a quote [i]tag, or a code tag, instead of just reposting the entire post.

I know what you're thinking. "No, that'd never work..." or "We have too many elves already..." or "They're extinct." But hear me out. Please. If anything, don't consider playing the race if ever it does come to be. I've come up with an interesting story, however, that could make these forgotten elves relevant in the current game.

The Story
Let's start off with debunking the myth that all San'layn are extinct. Like the Blood elves or high elves, indeed they'd be low in number. We understand however that a race low in number can still be played perfectly fine by the playerbase--see Blood Elves and the new Void Elves. Ren'dorei are a small section of the Sin'dorei, in fact, that ended up being exiled. Take a tiny fragment of an already extremely small population and make an entire race out of that! Blizzard has done it once and they can do it again if it makes sense. But back to the extinct issue. Now, we've seen major San'layn leaders destroyed by the heroes of Azeroth, most notably Lana'thel. But we know that not all were actually killed off--the Blood Princess in the current Legion expansion is a good example of this. While we do kill her in Violet Hold, she is a good indication that the race is still there and did not suddenly keel over dead upon the death of Lana'thel (a ridiculous notion anyway).

I'd like to mention the missing Blood Princes; see: https://wow.gamepedia.com/San%27layn . I will mention the princes here, too: Prince Theraldis, Prince Atherann, and Blood Lord Vorath (he was in the TCG so might not be considered in lore itself, I am not sure on that one.) Any one of the above could be ambassadors for the San'layn joining either faction of the current dynamic (I will get into what faction I see them joining in a moment.)

We see the highest concentration of San'layn in En'kilah, where we are tasked with offing Prince Valanar. There is a huge concentration of NPC San'layn there, and while many of them could have been wiped out, a few could have survived and avoided detection to further work for the Lich King, only to have their wills freed upon Arthas being slain. I will get more into the discussion of 'will' in a moment as well. But anyway, the concentration of San'layn were only seen as NPCs there as well. We never saw the Ren'dorei in any location, including Ghostlands, until right when they were introduced, and they were inserted as potentially being in Ghostlands at some point in time. What's not to say a section of San'layn were hiding out somewhere in Icecrown? Or Grizzly Hills? Or other areas in the Borean Tundra? It's not that much of a stretch to say strategic forces were scattered along Northrend and then found themselves without a leader upon the death of Lana'thel and Arthas.

Now then, would their wills be bound to the new Lich King? Or could they break from the will or even have had broken from the will of Arthas (an odd sect of San'layn, anyway) like Death Knights? The Darkfallen were selected as among the most intelligent of undead. It is not a stretch to say that when the Arthas's control began to fade upon the undead, they broke from him just like the Death Knights. Many simply continued to work for him, but a few could have taken other routes or hidden.

We would have on our hands a shattered force of vampyr Blood Elves all around Northrend in this case--potentially being brought together by these princes. What would these elves seek to do? Continue to spread terror and rip people to shreds? Or could they potentially join a faction and, like the Death Knights, be accepted and integrated back into places they once called home? Remember, Death Knights were seen as mindless killing machines at one point, and we've seen that they did regain their personalities back, with one catch of course. They must continue to cause suffering in one way or another. These elves could have regained themselves with that same catch--the need, however, would be shifted to needing to feed off of living races' blood or energy. Not unlike what Blood Elves have to do in general, really, but with the San'layn they'd benefit much more from blood and its magics in general.

Let's take a look into more lore. We were introduced to more issues on the vampyr this expansion in Stormheim, most notable the vampirates. They were compared to the San'layn, as a matter of fact, which was interesting... and then Lucard enters the picture. We kill him, and he says, "I.. am not... defeated...". Then, Mrrgleton comments, "Vampyr CAN be killed, can't they?" What could this imply? Could Lana'thel potentially be brought back, should those missing princes not be used? Did she really die at all--could she have been weakened or actually have drank enough blood of the heroes to appear dead but actually manage to flee while they were taking on Arthas? Again, this is speculation on how all of this could be possible, and who their leader could be.

Now, what faction would they join? Who is the most likely to take them in? Easy. The Horde. Sylvanas needs more soldiers for her war against the alliance in the upcoming expansion. Her own kind is there within the San'layn, and they'd be very powerful assets to add to her ranks. She could give them purpose again and a chance to return to society rather than hide as creatures that should be killed on sight. Sylvanas is sure to know about the San'layn and the vampyr within Stormheim. What if she journies to Northrend and sends out messages to these princes, or sends out search parties, or even is contacted by a member of the San'layn who seeks to ally with her for a number of reasons?

I know a lot of these ideas are a stretch, but I figured I'd bring them up anyway. Rather than say 'no' or 'no more elves', I'd appreciate actual, well thought-out feedback on this matter.

The Classes
->Mage
->Rogue
->Hunter
->Death Knight (like forsaken Death Knights, they could have been around then as well!)
->Priest
->Paladin (This one is a big stretch but we do see San'layn Blood Knights in the Blood Halls)
->Warrior
->Warlock

Potential Racial Mounts
-Skeletal Hawkstriders
-Skeletal Lynxes
-Bats (Land bats, there wouldn't be flying as it is a racial mount)
-Spiders
04/18/2018 03:26 PMPosted by Grathok
Would it have hurt to link to your original thread on this so that it doesn't look like you've literally just started the whole conversation over again?

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762197320
New thread, same bad old ideas.

Same resistance from me. This must never happen.
04/18/2018 03:36 PMPosted by Wiccan
04/18/2018 03:33 PMPosted by Fallynn
...
Storytime?!
Nothing major, just our OP/thread titles being edited to remove links/numbers a couple of times. Didn't know what was going on. We talked with the Forum Moderator team via tickets and they explained it was against forum rules, it's all good now :)
Really? I was going to say, after all the "No flying on Argus" arguments... er, constructive criticism threads, each of which linked to the last capped one, over and over and over, I'd have thought it was kosher.

Though maybe... that's why you can't do it anymore. XD

Erm... on-topic, I've got nothing against the San'layn, more Elves is no problem for me. I like Elves. Not sure if they've enough overall following to warrant the full Allied Race treatment, but then, Void Elves. :P
I wanted to say "Part 2", trust me, but I was told I could not do that bit either o.o Regardless, you helped out by posting the original thread link and I thank you for it. Why would a part 2 thread not be allowed, I wonder? I've seen posts like that all the time.
Back to give support again. I hope you get what you want here OP.
04/18/2018 03:41 PMPosted by Fallynn
I wanted to say "Part 2", trust me, but I was told I could not do that bit either o.o Regardless, you helped out by posting the original thread link and I thank you for it. Why would a part 2 thread not be allowed, I wonder? I've seen posts like that all the time.
As far as I know, you are allowed to say "part 2" when your original thread caps, which it did, so you are not breaking forum rules.

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