Lack of creativity [BFA Spoilers]

General Discussion
Battle for Azeroth - Open Debate
{Spoiler Alert}

This is not a post to say which faction is better or to blame the players for things that go beyond their grasp, this is a post for you to give your opinion about what is to come, having fun, analizing and debating in an educated way.

Are really Horde players not mad at the twist or plot that WoW writers do to the story?
They want to change their leader every two expansions and they are ALWAYS portrayed as villains, for all of you that follow closely the updates on the alfa, yes I mean Sylvanas aka Garrosh 2.0. Because the way that things are unfolding that is the fate of Sylvanas aparently, first of all, I'm not a fanboy for I play in both factions, I like stuff from both and thats why it angers me such injustice. When they announced Battle for Azeroth, with the related new features trailer, cinematic, etc. I was excited, I thought that we would get a proper war between faction, beyond you are EVIL I am GOOD, when Sylvanas gives that speech at the beginning of the cinematic trailer, it comes off as dissapointed about what is happening (the war between factions) and led me to believe we would see something much deeper, that not everything would be black or white but different hints of gray, an Alliance and a Horde with virtues and faults, that each side would fight for a true purpose, wether injustice, resources, honor, defending their people, etc.

For one, we could see an obsessed Genn Greymane, on a quest to destroy Sylvanas at all costs, it would push him to do things that would make the Alliance doubt that his intentions were completely honorable, likewise in the Horde we could see (as usual) things that would make them doubt if they are in the right side. But no, once again we see the Alliance doing everything right; the Horde everything wrong, attacking villages, killing innocent people, using very questionable powers or artifacts, an internal war/rebellion (MoP all over again).

Though I know Sylvanas couldn't be a benevolent leader for how they have built her character along the years, I don't think she should be made a villain as they did with Garrosh.

Are they planning to revive Vol'jin or choosing Rexxar as new warchief? It seems many want something like that but this goes beyond "we tried X leader, didn't work out, let's try another".
It's about the writters to make a character that could be mantained as a leader, that people of that faction like them and that are respected even in the opposing faction, beyond the fact of being their fanboys. They are killing good characters, I think the writers and developers of the game could make better stories, I don't want the Horde having another warchief, not because it's Sylvanas but because no more making them always the bad guys and that we have to kill their leaders to solve everything and that the Alliance can fell as the good kids that do no wrong with impecable actions.

Just think this through for a moment and give your opinion confidently. But also think about the NERF of the Horde leaders:
Baine is not an experienced warrior, Varok an experienced but old warrior, Lor'themar another lackluster warrior, Gallywix is just a rich merchant that enslaves his own people.

Allied races: Thalyssra (She's badass) and Mayla Highmountain that I think it's another warrior...

Alliance leaders: Tyrande Priest/Hunter with thousands of years of experience, Malfurion OP archdruid, Velen Priest/Prophet, the Three Hammer Council, Moira Priest, Muradin Warrior/explorer, Falstad Gryphon Rider and Genn Greymane being the "weakest" link.

Allied races: Alleria Void elf ranger that appears and disappears at will (watch the scenario video for the battle of Lordaeron) and Turalyon OP paladin.

The way things are going the most probable future for the actual warchief is it's death, not being the case there is the small chance that mid expansion truth comes out that she was influenced by an old god or something like that and by defeating it, it's influence will stop controlling her or some sentimental talk with her sisters will make her react, something that redeems her previous acts so we don't kill her, but for now, writters and developers of WoW I tell you sincerely... What a lack of creativity
Yeah op you are right the horde need to be purged
04/20/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Tearjerker
Battle for Azeroth - Open Debate
{Spoiler Alert}

This is not a post to say which faction is better or to blame the players for things that go beyond their grasp, this is a post for you to give your opinion about what is to come, having fun, analizing and debating in an educated way.

Are really Horde players not mad at the twist or plot that WoW writers do to the story?
They want to change their leader every two expansions and they are ALWAYS portrayed as villains, for all of you that follow closely the updates on the alfa, yes I mean Sylvanas aka Garrosh 2.0. Because the way that things are unfolding that is the fate of Sylvanas aparently, first of all, I'm not a fanboy for I play in both factions, I like stuff from both and thats why it angers me such injustice. When they announced Battle for Azeroth, with the related new features trailer, cinematic, etc. I was excited, I thought that we would get a proper war between faction, beyond you are EVIL I am GOOD, when Sylvanas gives that speech at the beginning of the cinematic trailer, it comes off as dissapointed about what is happening (the war between factions) and led me to believe we would see something much deeper, that not everything would be black or white but different hints of gray, an Alliance and a Horde with virtues and faults, that each side would fight for a true purpose, wether injustice, resources, honor, defending their people, etc.

For one, we could see an obsessed Genn Greymane, on a quest to destroy Sylvanas at all costs, it would push him to do things that would make the Alliance doubt that his intentions were completely honorable, likewise in the Horde we could see (as usual) things that would make them doubt if they are in the right side. But no, once again we see the Alliance doing everything right; the Horde everything wrong, attacking villages, killing innocent people, using very questionable powers or artifacts, an internal war/rebellion (MoP all over again).

Though I know Sylvanas couldn't be a benevolent leader for how they have built her character along the years, I don't think she should be made a villain as they did with Garrosh.

Are they planning to revive Vol'jin or choosing Rexxar as new warchief? It seems many want something like that but this goes beyond "we tried X leader, didn't work out, let's try another".
It's about the writters to make a character that could be mantained as a leader, that people of that faction like them and that are respected even in the opposing faction, beyond the fact of being their fanboys. They are killing good characters, I think the writers and developers of the game could make better stories, I don't want the Horde having another warchief, not because it's Sylvanas but because no more making them always the bad guys and that we have to kill their leaders to solve everything and that the Alliance can fell as the good kids that do no wrong with impecable actions.

Just think this through for a moment and give your opinion confidently. But also think about the NERF of the Horde leaders:
Baine is not an experienced warrior, Varok an experienced but old warrior, Lor'themar another lackluster warrior, Gallywix is just a rich merchant that enslaves his own people.

Allied races: Thalyssra (She's badass) and Mayla Highmountain that I think it's another warrior...

Alliance leaders: Tyrande Priest/Hunter with thousands of years of experience, Malfurion OP archdruid, Velen Priest/Prophet, the Three Hammer Council, Moira Priest, Muradin Warrior/explorer, Falstad Gryphon Rider and Genn Greymane being the "weakest" link.

Allied races: Alleria Void elf ranger that appears and disappears at will (watch the scenario video for the battle of Lordaeron) and Turalyon OP paladin.

The way things are going the most probable future for the actual warchief is it's death, not being the case there is the small chance that mid expansion truth comes out that she was influenced by an old god or something like that and by defeating it, it's influence will stop controlling her or some sentimental talk with her sisters will make her react, something that redeems her previous acts so we don't kill her, but for now, writters and developers of WoW I tell you sincerely... What a lack of creativity


Horde players are, for the most part, furious about it and the evidence is plastered over every forum board on battle.net. Horde players in general have been tired of the villain ball they've been handed since the Garrosh debacle, and it doesn't seem to be letting up.

Myself, while I'd like to be a good guy again, at least being the bad guy keeps things interesting.
I think they wrote themselves into a hole at the start of Legion where Sylvanas is concerned. Vol'jin dying seems to have been done to counterbalance Varian's death more than anything else, and since there weren't any prominent characters (besides Saurfang, who would probably refuse the position), Warchief defaulted to Sylvanas.

As for her comic book villain behavior since then, I think it's more of a product of Blizzard trying to create substance for the new expansion, which is missing a good starting point. We just brought down the Legion and there's no immediately present evil on Azeroth apart from the wound in Silithus. That, I assume, will progress as the expansion moves forward, but starting a story in a lull is difficult.

Thus, we have extreme measures being taken on both sides, including the burning of Teldrassil, the sacking of Undercity, and the subsequent chemical warfare that really feels out of place. That leads into the gathering of armies and bringing even more lands into this seemingly endless war. Sure, there's probably some Old God stuff influencing events, but that's Blizzard's version of deus ex machina - it's lazy writing at best.

It all feels a bit too childish for my taste; neither side is learning from past mistakes, and instead they're leaping at the chance to soak another field with blood and fill its night air with thousands of ghostly whispers for generations to come. And for what? To redraw a few lines on a map for the next generation to fight over? Assuming there is another generation...
Look, I'm not irked that Sylvanas is being painted as evil. Kind of expected, actually. They're hardly going to have Anduin go cackling-mad with evil laughter.

I'm irked because it appears she's being set up as "stupid evil" (see Garrosh in MoP).
I'm amazed at Saurfang's self-restraint after her crack about raising him from the dead to serve her and talking about his son.

This is a dumb war which only serves to make both sides weaker and leaves Azeroth even more vulnerable given how she is severely injured and possibly dying. Perfect setting for Old Gods to resurface and do more damage and try to corrupt Azeroth herself. And the Void Lords are still out there waiting in the wings.

We still have parts of the world in ruins, on fire, corrupted - how about fixing that stuff instead of adding to the destruction? Honestly, Azeroth should punt us all into space to die when she awakens for being so stupid and petty.
the problem is that they didn't have a story to begin with. bfa is the "Seinfeld" of expansions. no soup for you, come back next year!
I’m still convinced that the war is in fact triggered by Old God corruption, somehow inciting anger in both sides (but perhaps manifesting most strongly with Sylvanas).

I agree the Garrosh-like script seems redundant - almost obviously so. Which makes me seriously lend credence to the idea that the Old Gods are playing a role here (and perhaps even on the forum, triggering all these... triggered posts! :)).
We really should have just walled off Tirisfal and Gilneas, thrown Sylvanas and Genn with their armies in, at let them go to town on one another.

I'd call BfA a success if neither of them see the end of the expansion on this side of the living world.
I've dug in poop and murdered animals for their body parts. Pretty sure us players, are in no position to distinguish whats evil or not.
Picking Warchief is like picking President in WoW. You don't know if they're going to be a good one, and if they don't, you can just pick another one with more steps involved.

As for Sylvanas, no, I'm not mad about some of the things she's doing. Saurfang is sort of stupid. He wants to do things in an "honorable" way, even if it costs him or us our lives, and he's fine with that. I'm glad he's not Warchief. Sylvanas does questionable things, yes, but hey, we survive. Atleast we live. Alliance is strong I'll admit, so she sort of has to work on limited resources and has to resort to the things she does. Smart move in my opinion.

You gotta remember that Vol'jin chose her for a reason. The main reason was that he knew Sylvanas wasn't afraid to do questionable things as long as the Horde survived. Vol'jin asked her to keep the Horde alive, and she's trying to keep onto that promise.

People are trying to compare her to Garrosh, but Garrosh only did things for a Horde he envisioned, not the Horde Thrall wanted him to lead. He went out of his way to try to create the perfect Horde, aka the Iron Horde, and even turned his back against us. He's different, the things he did weren't for the Horde, but for his own agenda. To try to match the glory of his father, to try to live up to the Hellscream name.
I'm hoping for a surprise twist, but I'm going into this expecting the Horde to get crapped on and the Alliance screaming that all the attention means Horde favoritism.

I felt the same way all through Cata and Panda: If this is Horde favoritism, them please let's have some Alliance favoritism for a bit.

I signed up for gritty nobility and honor. Not stealing 40 cakes.
I don’t really care about the “plot twist” because nothing major is going to happen as a result. The Horde and Alliance will continue to exist.

Now, if they wanted to have a real plot twist, one of the two factions would finally win the war, completely eradicate the other faction, and all player characters from the losing faction would be executed or thrown in a jail cell permanently.

That would be enough for me to have a “holy crap, did that just happen?” moment.
We all know Horde is better anyway, no matter who is leading us...
04/20/2018 11:59 AMPosted by Sylk
I'm hoping for a surprise twist, but I'm going into this expecting the Horde to get crapped on and the Alliance screaming that all the attention means Horde favoritism.

I felt the same way all through Cata and Panda: If this is Horde favoritism, them please let's have some Alliance favoritism for a bit.

I signed up for gritty nobility and honor. Not stealing 40 cakes.


Horde favoritism? lets make the Alliance looks like the good one again :) and lets kill the Horde Warchief AGAIN
04/20/2018 01:42 PMPosted by Petersteele
I don’t really care about the “plot twist” because nothing major is going to happen as a result. The Horde and Alliance will continue to exist.

Now, if they wanted to have a real plot twist, one of the two factions would finally win the war, completely eradicate the other faction, and all player characters from the losing faction would be executed or thrown in a jail cell permanently.

That would be enough for me to have a “holy crap, did that just happen?” moment.


HAHAHA too much that last one. And if it matters, because we do not have to settle for always marginalizing a faction, with useless or evil leaders. To make thosea of the opposite faction feel morally superior.
04/20/2018 10:30 AMPosted by Noctîs
Myself, while I'd like to be a good guy again, at least being the bad guy keeps things interesting.
i don't mind being the villain, i just wish it wasn't in a way that was so obvious.

"we're doing the faction war so we need a side to be aggressive and be the villain"
"well why not the horde?"
"sure why not, let's go with that"
Given the years of Horde favortism (2 extra mounts for a long time in Cata, better story lines before MoP, better designed mounts (we consistently get effing horses), and aside from story arcs still getting the easier hand in alot of things (you had all of the expac for your allied races, while we had a whole lot of less time for the factions they decided for us). I mean hell its Cannon you did most of the raids in WoW's history. Stop whining you end up getting a bit of a shaft.
04/20/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Jàred
Given the years of Horde favortism (2 extra mounts for a long time in Cata, better story lines before MoP, better designed mounts (we consistently get effing horses), and aside from story arcs still getting the easier hand in alot of things (you had all of the expac for your allied races, while we had a whole lot of less time for the factions they decided for us). I mean hell its Cannon you did most of the raids in WoW's history. Stop whining you end up getting a bit of a shaft.


Sure, cause 2 extra mounts its something about writers concern...

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