I got screwed out of loot once.

General Discussion
04/27/2018 08:59 AMPosted by Countchocula
Guilds should have a choice, I think that is the main issue. Whether you like ML or PL, the players should have the choice to choose what fits their guild best.
Agreed!
04/27/2018 08:47 AMPosted by Vaniryn
More than once in this particular guild I'm no longer in (thankfully).

We're trialing this other Shadow Priest and he's questionable to say the least or at least far worse than me. Won't go into details, but to put it simply, he's doing his rotation completely wrong and dies to random heroic mechanics.

Acrid Catalyst Injector drops which is one of the best trinkets for casters, including spriest. Loot council decides to give it to the other spriest because they assume it's a higher upgrade due to their lack of knowledge on what trinkets are good or not for shadow and because they hope it'd raise his numbers.

The guy also quit once we got AotC so that's a double whammy right there.

This is a story of how Loot Council has screwed me over, but yet I would still take a Loot Council (Master Loot) over Personal Loot everyday.

Loot Council screwing me over is human error, that can be corrected. I could go to the officers and voice my frustrations, which I did and things more or less improved, or I can leave.

Had it been Personal Loot that awarded the BiS trinket to the under performing player, how can I avoid future situations? You can't correct an automated system without there being even more negatives.

Though dealing with that particular guild's loot council caused me a great deal of frustration, I'd still would rather raid with the choice to stick to master loot and loot council over personal loot.

Personal loot isn't bad, but it isn't for me. Thank you.


Give me the name of the guild and I am going to go there and ask an officer if this is a true or you are just a good storyteller.

But in any case ... I think I should come up with a story like this myself.
04/27/2018 09:34 AMPosted by Starien
Most folk I know who pick up a sidegrade will offer it up to others rather than selfishly keep it. Raid with people who want to help each other.


We won't be able to offer it, even if it's crap itemization, if the ilvl is higher than what we have. Blizzard NEEDS to fix that problem to make personal loot acceptable.
04/27/2018 10:13 AMPosted by Juulnel
Give me the name of the guild and I am going to go there and ask an officer if this is a true or you are just a good storyteller.

But in any case ... I think I should come up with a story like this myself.

You think a guild I'm thankful for leaving would admit to screwing up loot? Plus, I don't want to defame them despite leaving on incredibly bad terms.

I can tell more stories if you like.
Like the time they screwed the warlock out of her BiS from HM trinket that would've lasted her through BRF.

Or the time they screwed over that same warlock by not letting her roll for a tier piece because they assumed she already had it.

edit:
Also against forum rules to do "call outs" and this would count as one.
04/27/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Vaniryn
04/27/2018 10:13 AMPosted by Juulnel
Give me the name of the guild and I am going to go there and ask an officer if this is a true or you are just a good storyteller.

But in any case ... I think I should come up with a story like this myself.

You think a guild I'm thankful for leaving would admit to screwing up loot? Plus, I don't want to defame them despite leaving on incredibly bad terms.

I can tell more stories if you like.
Like the time they screwed the warlock out of her BiS from HM trinket that would've lasted her through BRF.

Or the time they screwed over that same warlock by not letting her roll for a tier piece because they assumed she already had it.


The name, please.

Actually I am just going to check your character history and see it myself.
04/27/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Juulnel
The name, please.

Actually I am just going to check your character history and see it myself.

gl, you can probably find them.

Like I said, ended on extremely bad terms and a guild is not going to admit they did something wrong. :P
04/27/2018 09:03 AMPosted by Raven
My guild runs personal loot, it works for us. It cut a lot of drama.

But that doesn't mean other guilds should have the choice taken away. I don't see why less options is better.

Forum hero right here.
04/27/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Vaniryn
Like the time they screwed the warlock out of her BiS from HM trinket that would've lasted her through BRF.

Or the time they screwed over that same warlock by not letting her roll for a tier piece because they assumed she already had it.


used it until hellfire actually, not brf. the one i got from cache, u know, since boneless was a !@#$ face.

still don't have tier legs either. they apologized but i ended up having to settle for a different piece.
04/27/2018 09:34 AMPosted by Vaniryn
04/27/2018 09:31 AMPosted by Sneakyboops
Master loot also has ninjas, now it's being removed.

Yet you had a choice to avoid Master Loot. You don't have a choice to avoid Personal Loot ninjas.

Huge difference.


That is not a thing, You can NOT ninja loot something that is personal
04/27/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Jenrina
Often officers who abused loot retain power for a super long time... and then I have seen them break the guild up, take the players he or she wants, then form a new guild...

It got to the point where I enjoy doing mythic pluses a lot more. Push hard content and play the game for fun now.


This is a community problem with a community solution.

Corrupt loot master? Simple. Stop raiding with that group. If everybody stopped raiding with groups they disagreed with then those groups would either need to change how they run or they'll die off.

If you keep raiding in a guild that has a corrupt loot council then you're part of the problem and you're enabling that behavior by helping them kill bosses.

04/27/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Justanother
That is not a thing, You can NOT ninja loot something that is personal


You can if you were awarded it while participating in a run the group was doing for your benefit.

If you take the items you win and then stop coming ... you've effectively ninja looted gear that the group was depending on.
04/27/2018 10:29 AMPosted by Brissandy
04/27/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Jenrina
Often officers who abused loot retain power for a super long time... and then I have seen them break the guild up, take the players he or she wants, then form a new guild...

It got to the point where I enjoy doing mythic pluses a lot more. Push hard content and play the game for fun now.


This is a community problem with a community solution.

Corrupt loot master? Simple. Stop raiding with that group. If everybody stopped raiding with groups they disagreed with then those groups would either need to change how they run or they'll die off.

If you keep raiding in a guild that has a corrupt loot council then you're part of the problem and you're enabling that behavior by helping them kill bosses.

04/27/2018 10:28 AMPosted by Justanother
That is not a thing, You can NOT ninja loot something that is personal


You can if you were awarded it while participating in a run the group was doing for your benefit.

If you take the items you win and then stop coming ... you've effectively ninja looted gear that the group was depending on.


Trial runs are to figure out if you're a good fit for the guild and vice versa, if the guild is a good fit for you. Gaining gear during that time period isn't ninjaing loot, sorry, and ninjaing loot is impossible with PL. Solves your problem. Bye!
04/27/2018 10:15 AMPosted by Shyaelle
We won't be able to offer it, even if it's crap itemization, if the ilvl is higher than what we have. Blizzard NEEDS to fix that problem to make personal loot acceptable.


I agree that locking items to being non-tradeable if it's the highest item you'll ever have for that slot is crappy.

But it's a temporary grievance. After week 3 or so, most players will be able to trade most things they pick up. Gear can be obtained from places other than raids such a PvP, scenarios, M+, etc.

Of course the best solution will be to leave master looter as an option for guilds who choose to use it, but I've yet to see conversation on this topic shift to acceptance and begin to productively discuss ways to augment personal loot to benefit the group. We need to assume master looter will be gone forever and move on.

For example, if you are farming a boss who drops a tank trinket but hasn't yet coughed one up for your main tanks, and you've got a warrior, a druid, and a DK DPS in your raid who have looted everything they need from this boss, you could have them temporarily switch to tank specialization while on this boss in hopes the trinket for your maintank will drop, to help stack the cards in their favor.
I've had more problems getting screwed with personal loot than ML.

Guild I ran with as a leather had an overabundance of hunters. This meant mostly mail dropped. So, they were able to get gear way faster via trading their personal loot between one another. Meanwhile, I was getting either nothing or crap with no hope that someone got an upgrade they didn't need.
04/27/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Sneakyboops
Trial runs are to figure out if you're a good fit for the guild and vice versa, if the guild is a good fit for you. Gaining gear during that time period isn't ninjaing loot, sorry, and ninjaing loot is impossible with PL. Solves your problem. Bye!


The guild wouldn't take you into that content if you told them that you were going to take your loot and leave. The ONLY way a guild takes you into content like that is if you indicate to them that you want to be a contributing member to their team.

So yes, showing up to a raid, winning loot (even on PL) and then deciding "nah screw these guys" is a form of ninja looting because the guild isn't going to waste time doing content for people it can't depend on.

Loot can't be ninja'd with Master Loot anyway since people have to voluntarily opt-in to groups that use it and they should fully understand that the master looter has 100% control of the loot and can do with it what they wish ... if someone chooses to stay in a group like that then they've volunteered to give up their rights to the loot.
04/27/2018 10:52 AMPosted by Brissandy
04/27/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Sneakyboops
Trial runs are to figure out if you're a good fit for the guild and vice versa, if the guild is a good fit for you. Gaining gear during that time period isn't ninjaing loot, sorry, and ninjaing loot is impossible with PL. Solves your problem. Bye!


The guild wouldn't take you into that content if you told them that you were going to take your loot and leave. The ONLY way a guild takes you into content like that is if you indicate to them that you want to be a contributing member to their team.

So yes, showing up to a raid, winning loot (even on PL) and then deciding "nah screw these guys" is a form of ninja looting because the guild isn't going to waste time doing content for people it can't depend on.

Loot can't be ninja'd with Master Loot anyway since people have to voluntarily opt-in to groups that use it and they should fully understand that the master looter has 100% control of the loot and can do with it what they wish ... if someone chooses to stay in a group like that then they've volunteered to give up their rights to the loot.


Master loot can be ninja'd by the person mastering the loot. Continue to be wrong in every sentence you type out. Go read what I said again, take your time.
04/27/2018 08:47 AMPosted by Vaniryn


Had it been Personal Loot that awarded the BiS trinket to the under performing player, how can I avoid future situations? You can't correct an automated system without there being even more negatives.


so you think someone else winning a trinket via personal loot is taking something away from you ? How you can avoid that situation - stop thinking of things that way.
04/27/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Vaniryn
trial comes into raid

trial gets piece of gear

trial leaves raid

ninja'd


You were also complaining about being in a guild that rewarded a piece of loot to a trial through master loot, sounds like your issue is loot in general, not how a certain system rewards it.
04/27/2018 09:33 AMPosted by Mvura
04/27/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Vaniryn
I'm not going through stressful loot situations again, that's not fun for me.


You described stressful loot situations that were only possible because ML exists.

04/27/2018 09:29 AMPosted by Vaniryn
Master Loot was implemented to prevent ninjas


I don't remember master loot ever not existing.


Btw, thanks for showing up in this thread, haven't seen you in a while, but I haven't been around much lately. I always remember you and I somewhat as being 'champions of the unpopular opinion'.

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