Mythic Raiders

General Discussion
So I have a question for mythic raiders, how would you feel about a difficulty beyond mythic? I mean something so hard it's not really ment to be beaten but if your guild manages it you get something incredible?
Sounds like it will be a development nightmare of having to balance between is something actually possible vs is it just hard.
04/27/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Praetorian
So I have a question for mythic raiders, how would you feel about a difficulty beyond mythic? I mean something so hard it's not really ment to be beaten but if your guild manages it you get something incredible?


I can't see how it would function... or why it would need to exist.
04/27/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Primalmatter
04/27/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Praetorian
So I have a question for mythic raiders, how would you feel about a difficulty beyond mythic? I mean something so hard it's not really ment to be beaten but if your guild manages it you get something incredible?


I can't see how it would function... or why it would need to exist.

The best I can think of is if the raid has a timer and trash get buffed in between bosses like a fortified mythic+ week.
04/27/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Illidonkey
Sounds like it will be a development nightmare of having to balance between is something actually possible vs is it just hard.


I wasnt really thinking about the technical aspect, but that is a good point
04/27/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Primalmatter
04/27/2018 12:31 PMPosted by Praetorian
So I have a question for mythic raiders, how would you feel about a difficulty beyond mythic? I mean something so hard it's not really ment to be beaten but if your guild manages it you get something incredible?


I can't see how it would function... or why it would need to exist.


It was just a thought. I mean would more people want a harder challenge, even tho so few actually even raid at that level?
04/27/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Praetorian
04/27/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Illidonkey
Sounds like it will be a development nightmare of having to balance between is something actually possible vs is it just hard.


I wasnt really thinking about the technical aspect, but that is a good point

It is already a problem that they run into when doing mythic raids and as a result i do not think this would be a very good direction for the game to move in. I believe it would detract from overall raid design due to having to spend resources developing this Mythic+ raid environment. I wish there was something cool like M+ for raiding i just don't think this is the appropriate route.
04/27/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Illidonkey
Sounds like it will be a development nightmare of having to balance between is something actually possible vs is it just hard.

Not to mention gear from it would cause a further item level gap.
I'm sure there will be a 5th nightmare difficulty level added.

People cried that Normal was too hard so they made it easier and added Heroic.
People cried that Heroic was too hard so they made it easier and added Mythic.
People cried that Normal was still too hard and pugging is hard so they added LFR.

Now people are saying Mythic is too easy with the final bosses dying in less than a month. Nightmare difficulty is probably coming sooner than later.

Personally, I think part of the problem is they way the PTR Raids. They should take the mechanics of the bosses and test those in different ways not on the actual bosses with the actual boss rotations / effects.

The Raids hit Live Realms will full howtos on wowhead, icy-veins and youtube. My guild cleared Normal Antorus in the first two days after release and we had Heroic Cleared in the second week.
04/27/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Illidonkey
04/27/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Praetorian
...

I wasnt really thinking about the technical aspect, but that is a good point

It is already a problem that they run into when doing mythic raids and as a result i do not think this would be a very good direction for the game to move in. I believe it would detract from overall raid design due to having to spend resources developing this Mythic+ raid environment. I wish there was something cool like M+ for raiding i just don't think this is the appropriate route.


How about if it was just a single extra boss at the end of the final raid
Too many difficulties.
I liked the idea of making a M+ system but for raids. That would be cool.
04/27/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Sinkasumi
04/27/2018 12:33 PMPosted by Illidonkey
Sounds like it will be a development nightmare of having to balance between is something actually possible vs is it just hard.

Not to mention gear from it would cause a further item level gap.


And what if no gear dropped and it was just a single extra boss with the reward being something cosmetic, a mount, or something made specifically for your guild(yes I know that went happen), but off the top of my head I cant think of some incredible reward
04/27/2018 12:40 PMPosted by Praetorian
<span class="truncated">...</span>
It is already a problem that they run into when doing mythic raids and as a result i do not think this would be a very good direction for the game to move in. I believe it would detract from overall raid design due to having to spend resources developing this Mythic+ raid environment. I wish there was something cool like M+ for raiding i just don't think this is the appropriate route.


How about if it was just a single extra boss at the end of the final raid

That has been tried before and the main problem you run into with that is that the majority of the player base will not be able to see that content. I personally would be fine with it but mythic raiders do not make up the majority of the WoW
player base. As a result you would get massive backlash for having exclusive content for cutting edge raiders.
That has been tried before and the main problem you run into with that is that the majority of the player base will not be able to see that content. I personally would be fine with it but mythic raiders do not make up the majority of the WoW
player base. As a result you would get massive backlash for having exclusive content for cutting edge raiders.[/quote]

Are you referring to Ra Den in ToT. I mean you are right many people (like myself) wouldnt see it when it was current or at all if they took it out, and the outrage would probably happen I just thought it would be cool to have some near impossible obstacle.
Mythic was already made with that idea, what if we make a difficulty harder then heroic? The extra boss at the hardest difficulty has been tried before, but it seems blizzard has moved to "extra phase" on some last bosses on the hardest difficulty approach. Also mythic is tuned pretty nastily so just upping the damage/health m+ style would quickly cap out.

A m+ style system for raids would have to be segmented otherwise you end up with several hours nonstop with 10-30 people and would probably have to be on a lower difficulty so that the scaling actually matters beyond +2 or +3 which would be the unreasonable limit for mythic. But if they start it at lfr or normal level alot of the bosses will be too easy mechanically speaking and the whole thing becomes a dps/healer patchwork affair with extra emphasis on pulling every single trash pack at once between bosses.

Honestly the best thing i can imagine in that style would be a challenge mode for raids with say a 5% increase to boss health/damage and a timer, with a challenge mode achievement/transmog/pet/mount reward.
04/27/2018 12:39 PMPosted by Geofferson
I'm sure there will be a 5th nightmare difficulty level added.

People cried that Normal was too hard so they made it easier and added Heroic.
People cried that Heroic was too hard so they made it easier and added Mythic.
People cried that Normal was still too hard and pugging is hard so they added LFR.

Now people are saying Mythic is too easy with the final bosses dying in less than a month. Nightmare difficulty is probably coming sooner than later.

Personally, I think part of the problem is they way the PTR Raids. They should take the mechanics of the bosses and test those in different ways not on the actual bosses with the actual boss rotations / effects.

The Raids hit Live Realms will full howtos on wowhead, icy-veins and youtube. My guild cleared Normal Antorus in the first two days after release and we had Heroic Cleared in the second week.


Someone mentioned that they lowered the difficulty on raising because normal was to hard, but should raising be hard? Maybe notch up the difficulty on it again? Again tho I'm not a raider so idk how the raiding community would feel.
04/27/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Fevirin
Mythic was already made with that idea, what if we make a difficulty harder then heroic? The extra boss at the hardest difficulty has been tried before, but it seems blizzard has moved to "extra phase" on some last bosses on the hardest difficulty approach. Also mythic is tuned pretty nastily so just upping the damage/health m+ style would quickly cap out.

A m+ style system for raids would have to be segmented otherwise you end up with several hours nonstop with 10-30 people and would probably have to be on a lower difficulty so that the scaling actually matters beyond +2 or +3 which would be the unreasonable limit for mythic. But if they start it at lfr or normal level alot of the bosses will be too easy mechanically speaking and the whole thing becomes a dps/healer patchwork affair with extra emphasis on pulling every single trash pack at once between bosses.

Honestly the best thing i can imagine in that style would be a challenge mode for raids with say a 5% increase to boss health/damage and a timer, with a challenge mode achievement/transmog/pet/mount reward.


I like where you are coming from, and you said a lot of things I didnt even consider, but for the challenge mode would a 5% increase be enough?

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