State of mistweaving and fistweaving

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
This is a list of shear notes. There's a good amount here so it's straight to the point. please read through entirely because there are connecting points throughout.

General notes:
-having soothing mist be a active spell with the instant casts is nice. casting soothing mist first 'is the cast time' of your next spell which is now instant on that target.
-revival is a little weak in output(currently non-crit ~13-14% targets hp of nontanks).
-the loss of effuse is a big hit to being able to heal efficiently
-vivify without multiple renewing mists/EF up is nothing but a overpriced effuse.
-it takes mana to save mana.
-you feel like you have no control over your spells. (this is a big negative)

tier 1:
mist wrap = fine
chi wave = useless. it's low output, takes a long time to complete, its travel time between targets takes way too long and is random
chi burst = good but a little low in numbers. ~5% of the targets hp, ~10% if it crits.

tier 2:
all good

tier 3:
lifecycles = it's okay. still feels lackluster and again it revolves around renewing mist, EF and the requirement to alternate spells. it fits a constant medium/slightly high damage taken niche.
spirit of the crane = it's okay. as in legion, not viable when pushing. takes too many globals to complete.
mana tea = good

tier 4:
all great

tier 5:
all great

tier 6:
jade serpent statue = Very Bad. very low output and it doesn't benefit from enveloping mists healing bonus.
refreshing jade wind = needs to last longer as well as hps increase with the same ratio if blizzard wants it to be a part of fistweaving. otherwise there's little point to taking it when chi-ji lasts so long, has no location requirement and is free.
chi-ji = good. Needs slight hps increase. currently doing ~2% of hp per tick.
*****needs to stay by casters side. not running around.

tier 7:
essence well = good
focused thunder = good
rising mist = bad. clearly meant for fistweaving which is currently not viable. (see below and above)

The state of fistweaving:

Fistweaving is ALMOST in a very good spot. there are a few problems though.
1: mistweaver is now even more focused around renewing mist than ever and taking "rising mist" talent removes 1 whole application of it via "focused thunder".
2: spells don't do much output and when they do it is somewhat random and require setting up. Again you have almost no control over who you are healing.
- spirit of the crane takes way too long to get through a "full rotation". the big thing with it is that you want to reset RSK with "rising mist" talented but that is completely inconsistent. this required multiple casts/seconds to replace. Thus missing the cooldowns refreshing on other spells. Mainly the reapplication of E.F., renewing mist, enveloping on a focuses target, refreshing jade wind and almost most importantly RSK which is your focal point in the build. As well as what's the point in pressing it when your other abilities aren't up to proc the heals. That is a ton of mana just to force something to somewhat work.
3: there are simply too many things to press and keep up with. everything must go perfectly for this to work even remotely well. and that just won't happen. random damage, movement, mistakes, lag, etc. will occur.

how to fix fistweaving as well as the inability for mistweavers in general to handle long duration random damage.
mistweavers still go oom way too easily when "the unexpected happens".
1: fix tier 7 abilities and get them from good to great.
essence well = make it also increase essence font healing by 20% total and mana cost reduction per stack by 20%.
focused thunder = have it shave off 6 seconds from the "thunder focus tea" ability. bringing it to 24sec.
rising mist = allow it to also double the proc chance of "blackout kick" to reset the cooldown on RSK. So for each kick you have a 30% chance to proc. This will give a bit of a rotation to fistweaving and a much needed reasurrance that your heals are going out at least semi regularly.

buttons to press for basic fistweaving: RSK,RM,RJW,EF,TP,BK,RSK
-rising sun kick, renewing mist, refreshing jade win, (tiger palm, blackout kick alternating until RSK reset), rising sun kick, (repeat)

These are my findings and thoughts. by all means discuss but do not be rude. TY!
Renewing Mist is a very punishing spell to miss casts of, but the 20 sec duration should prevent ever being in a situation where multiple are not up, especially once the auto jump on multiple application fix is put in.

Reducing the number of TotM stacks to 2 and increasing SotC mana return by ~.22 would likely help fit SotC into more rotations (3 global investment rather then 4)

In the same period Refreshing Jade Wind is 20% stronger then Invoke Chi-Ji at 3217% SP to 2700% SP, it is just a considerably higher mana usage at 17.5%.

Rising Mist increases total Essence Font healing by a maximum of ~400% SP, or about 50%, and has a reduced effect on ReM and EvM. Interestingly, because of the spent global on RSK, total usage of double mastery buff is unchanged.

On the basic fistweaving rotation (assuming Rising Mist and SotC are talented)
I believe a more effective rotation would be; RM, RSK, RJW, TP, TP, BoK, RM
switching when necessary to RM, EF, RSK, RJW, TP, RM
the basic idea and thought being to maximize ReM usage and keep the rotation contained within it's 5 global CD.

Edit: switched a rotation because I forgot EF cast time, dumb of me.
yes renewing mist is very punishing to miss which happens relatively frequently. renewing mist isn't going to save the vast majority of lives when they are plummeting. So you must cast something else, especially since it cancels soothing mist (i.e. enveloping mist or vivify)

Both ToTM passive and SotC need adjustments. 3 globals AT MINIMUM is too much when you have 4 other spells to use that are on roughly 7, 8, 10 and 12 second cooldwons (jade wind, renewing mist, rising sun kick and essence font). there is absolutely zero room for adjustment. and if you do use other abilities you are simply wasting talents. not even in a raid scenario will you be able to blinding use a rotation.

refreshing jade wind is technically stronger but it has to meet many more requirements. On top of that you will be spending 20-25% of all your mana on it to keep it up. without SotC this spell will make you oom in 3-3 1/2 minutes alone.

the heal from rising mist will heal a dps/healer for ~1.4% of their total hp. This is the culmination of a tier 7 talent and the use of a damaging ability global at minimum. from scratch that's a renewing mist, essence font and rising sun kick which adds up to 4 globals/6 seconds/12% total mana for a grand total of ~30% of someones hp when all healing is combine along side several crits (basically equal to a enveloping mist but you regain multiple globals). Rising mist is junk.

the rotation was there for a basic idea. No encounter will allow you to follow it and thus no one should. It shows how tight the rotation is in order for it to be mildly effective.

we're in a okay spot. Just need to be tuned better. But again fistweaving is still obsolete. You can do more with less mana and globals with straight healing.
The vivify change is shaping up to be a nerf. It now mandates ReM being used on cooldown and severely punishes any missed application.

Best case scenario is that ReM is on 3 targets and thus Vivify is the same as live version. Using TFT with FT means ReM could be on 5 targets for about 4 seconds out of every 30 seconds but usually this doesn't happen because ReM overlaps at some point. Without FT it's more like 3/4 ReM targets once every 30 seconds.

It makes TFT being a "choice" between ReM/Viv/Env/EF a noob trap to choose anything but ReM.

Gusts feels about half as strong as it does on live as a % of HP. Having EF on a target at about 80% HP and proccing double Gusts on them with ReM won't top them off.

My main issue at the moment healing Heroics is that mana is a complete joke and Mastery has been messed with but left unchanged, if not weaker than live. Doing nothing but using ReM on CD and channeling Soothing on the tank or a DPS for incidental damage will still drive you OOM which seems ridiculous. This is a healing pattern that does nothing but slowly healing up low incoming and incidental damage. Actually healing with Viv/Env/EF can burn through half a mana bar in 15 seconds which feels horrible.

I fear Vivify just isn't powerful enough to warrant it's RNG nature and ReM limitations while also not being dependable enough to make choices as a player with. Having ReM sit on a target on 90% HP while someone sits at 10% is a huge weakness of the spec.

I'd like to see Vivify be changed such that each cast of Vivify splits the longest duration ReM into 2. So having a 10s ReM out and casting Vivify would split that into 2 x 5s ReM's. You could press Vivify with 3 ReM's out and know that the next Vivify would heal 4 targets, then 5 but by that point ReM's would be expiring. It would allow for more reliable Vivifies and better spread healing without getting out of hand due to ReM expirations.

The bottom line is that I find myself spamming single target heals when AoE damage is hitting my group because my AoE healing spells aren't reliable enough or powerful enough to keep people alive. I've done enough M+ in Legion to know that that isn't going to be viable. Other healers have AoE healing buttons for AoE healing situations that are powerful enough to deal with them and MW not having that is going to be the reason they're not viable in BfA dungeons at any serious level.

Unless mana issues are addressed and Mastery is massively buffed (by 100-200%) and HoA/Azurite traits allow for further spreading of ReM, I don't have high hopes for MW in dungeons.
Rather than tying more things to RM, I think a better way to give an element of Fistweaving back would be to just add eminence back to JSS, or make JSS baseline and have a talent replace it with another statue that has eminence or something similar (in the other thread I suggested getting a better mana option baseline, ditching tier 45 entirely to make room for a statue tier + AoE talent tier but you could also just more simply do something with JSS).

JSS not working with the EM buff seems like something that should be changed.

In terms of Vivify I think it should just be changed from an uplift mechanic to a effuse/Legion style vivify combo where it heals the main target for X and 3 other targets for Y. Another option would be a talent that changes it in that way from the uplift style. That talent could go up against the other AoE talents (which would require a baseline statue or removing and moving other talents around).

One thing that's odd about (Legion)/BfA fistweaving is you'll have to constantly interrupt any kind of meleeing with other casting since you can't do much actual healing via attacking. A return of an Eminence style mechanic (or the crane statue idea from the other thread) would help with that, but another idea could be a return of a teachings of the monastery/vital mists buff where you build up a free instant cast every so often. That's less jarring to a fistweaving playstyle than frequent hard casting or SooM + instant casting another spell frequently. IE: every blackout kick could give a stack of vital mists, reducing the cast time and mana cost of your next EM/Vivify by 25% (fitting it into existing mechanics, it use to be 5 tiger palms and 20% each). You could also reduce the mana cost reduction if it allowed for too much free healing.

I have no idea what their plans are for mastery, but if they aren't making major changes to it, at the very least I think SooM should proc a gust every tick for ~1/8th the strength. That would bring back mastery scaling to our efficient heal.

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