San'layn/Darkfallen

General Discussion
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Could San'layn be an Allied Race in Battle for Azeroth? We discussed wanting them added, but they have potential to actually be a thing now! SEE THE SPOILERS SECTION BELOW!

We have a discord now too! Please see: https://discord.gg/r3Ckpb8
Original Ideas

The Story
Let's start off with debunking the myth that all San'layn are extinct. Like the Blood elves or high elves, indeed they'd be low in number. We understand however that a race low in number can still be played perfectly fine by the playerbase--see Blood Elves and the new Void Elves. Ren'dorei are a small section of the Sin'dorei, in fact, that ended up being exiled. Take a tiny fragment of an already extremely small population and make an entire race out of that! Blizzard has done it once and they can do it again if it makes sense. But back to the extinct issue. Now, we've seen major San'layn leaders destroyed by the heroes of Azeroth, most notably Lana'thel. But we know that not all were actually killed off--the Blood Princess in the current Legion expansion is a good example of this. While we do kill her in Violet Hold, she is a good indication that the race is still there and did not suddenly keel over dead upon the death of Lana'thel (a ridiculous notion anyway).

I'd like to mention the missing Blood Princes; see: https://wow.gamepedia.com/San%27layn . I will mention the princes here, too: Prince Theraldis, Prince Atherann, and Blood Lord Vorath (he was in the TCG so might not be considered in lore itself, I am not sure on that one.) Any one of the above could be ambassadors for the San'layn joining either faction of the current dynamic (I will get into what faction I see them joining in a moment.)

We see the highest concentration of San'layn in En'kilah, where we are tasked with offing Prince Valanar. There is a huge concentration of NPC San'layn there, and while many of them could have been wiped out, a few could have survived and avoided detection to further work for the Lich King, only to have their wills freed upon Arthas being slain. I will get more into the discussion of 'will' in a moment as well. But anyway, the concentration of San'layn were only seen as NPCs there as well. We never saw the Ren'dorei in any location, including Ghostlands, until right when they were introduced, and they were inserted as potentially being in Ghostlands at some point in time. What's not to say a section of San'layn were hiding out somewhere in Icecrown? Or Grizzly Hills? Or other areas in the Borean Tundra? It's not that much of a stretch to say strategic forces were scattered along Northrend and then found themselves without a leader upon the death of Lana'thel and Arthas.

Now then, would their wills be bound to the new Lich King? Or could they break from the will or even have had broken from the will of Arthas (an odd sect of San'layn, anyway) like Death Knights? The Darkfallen were selected as among the most intelligent of undead. It is not a stretch to say that when the Arthas's control began to fade upon the undead, they broke from him just like the Death Knights. Many simply continued to work for him, but a few could have taken other routes or hidden.

We would have on our hands a shattered force of vampyr Blood Elves all around Northrend in this case--potentially being brought together by these princes. What would these elves seek to do? Continue to spread terror and rip people to shreds? Or could they potentially join a faction and, like the Death Knights, be accepted and integrated back into places they once called home? Remember, Death Knights were seen as mindless killing machines at one point, and we've seen that they did regain their personalities back, with one catch of course. They must continue to cause suffering in one way or another. These elves could have regained themselves with that same catch--the need, however, would be shifted to needing to feed off of living races' blood or energy. Not unlike what Blood Elves have to do in general, really, but with the San'layn they'd benefit much more from blood and its magics in general.

Let's take a look into more lore. We were introduced to more issues on the vampyr this expansion in Stormheim, most notable the vampirates. They were compared to the San'layn, as a matter of fact, which was interesting... and then Lucard enters the picture. We kill him, and he says, "I.. am not... defeated...". Then, Mrrgleton comments, "Vampyr CAN be killed, can't they?" What could this imply? Could Lana'thel potentially be brought back, should those missing princes not be used? Did she really die at all--could she have been weakened or actually have drank enough blood of the heroes to appear dead but actually manage to flee while they were taking on Arthas? Again, this is speculation on how all of this could be possible, and who their leader could be.

Now, what faction would they join? Who is the most likely to take them in? Easy. The Horde. Sylvanas needs more soldiers for her war against the alliance in the upcoming expansion. Her own kind is there within the San'layn, and they'd be very powerful assets to add to her ranks. She could give them purpose again and a chance to return to society rather than hide as creatures that should be killed on sight. Sylvanas is sure to know about the San'layn and the vampyr within Stormheim. What if she journies to Northrend and sends out messages to these princes, or sends out search parties, or even is contacted by a member of the San'layn who seeks to ally with her for a number of reasons?

I know a lot of these ideas are a stretch, but I figured I'd bring them up anyway. Rather than say 'no' or 'no more elves', I'd appreciate actual, well thought-out feedback on this matter.

The Classes
->Mage
->Rogue
->Hunter
->Death Knight (like forsaken Death Knights, they could have been around then as well!)
->Priest
->Paladin (This one is a big stretch but we do see San'layn Blood Knights in the Blood Halls)
->Warrior
->Warlock

Potential Racial Mounts
-Skeletal Hawkstriders
-Skeletal Lynxes
-Bats (Land bats, there wouldn't be flying as it is a racial mount)
-Spiders
-----------------------------

Support for this has been greatly appreciated!

Disclaimer: I'm not saying to add this race before others like ogre, dwarves, and other races people really want, because we have a lot of elves already. I merely would like to bring ideas to the table in this thread and talk about ideas SHOULD the San'layn be considered for an Allied race. I understand if you have no interest in this and encourage you to make or support a thread on an Allied Race you would like to see!

04/18/2018 03:17 PMPosted by Drede
Might as well post this here too.

Designs for Undead Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Black marks under their eyes like Sylvanas.
-Darker more muted hair colors. With White/Grey hair options.
-Grey/Black/White skin.
-Red Eyes.

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Bandages to hide rot because they are more vain than other undead.
-Slightly skinnier because they are dead. Ribs showing etc.
-Sylvanas's "Banshee" form as a racial. Possibly Vampiric Racials as well?
-Gothic themes to tie it all together.

Recruitment concept
A small group of San'Layn survived Ice Crown and returned to their homeland to live out their "lives" in peace. They live with other undead elves and have taught them the use of Blood Magic and the powers of Vampirism. Sylvans wants to use their powers to augment her Dark Rangers and tries to get them to join the Horde.

Or

Sylvanas has you raid Icecrown Citadel for a mysterious coffin. After almost dying you find a San'Layn inside and Sylvanas makes him an offer he can't refuse.

Any additional thoughts?
----------------------------

Joke ideas:
(Mine)
-At least we don't sparkle either.
-What am I doing? Nothing much, just San'layin around.
-It's so hard getting dental work done when every dentist you see runs screaming.
-I vant to suck your blood! Or have it in a smoothie. That sounds nice too.
-No, we don't consume void energy--that's the Ren'dorei. Totally different emo elf.
-My favorite color is red. For the Horde, why would you think there's other reasons?
-I actually don't mind the worgen all that much, aside from their constant yapping.
-Too many elves, you say? You haven't met the murlocs yet.
-I see a black door and I want it painted red.
-You think we're hot? You haven't seen Bolvar yet, have you?
-We take the 'Blood' in 'Blood elf' very seriously.

Flirts:
Madrigala="Don't worry, I won't bite. At least, not unless you want me to...."
Nicrowy="I hunger for you... not your blood, of course"
Nicrowy=
- if you were a blood type, you'd be my favorite
- Is that Bloodlust I'm sensing - or just lust?
- Is there room for two in your coffin?
- You're so beautiful I think my heart just stopped. Wow it really did!
- You're like the sun you're so hot you make my blood boil
- Will you turn into bat for me? A long, hard one?

------------
[SPOILERS]
There is no guarantee of the San'layn being allied races yet, however we do see a genuine BLOOD PRINCE in Battle for Azeroth!
See: http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=138795/blood-prince-dreven

Also, take a look at this broadcast text:

Blood Prince Dreven and Gallywix
We will deal with Blood Prince Dreven soon, General. But this is a rare opportunity to cripple the Horde's military. Everything else must wait.
We can kill that gluttonous goblin any day! If Dreven escapes, we may never find him again.
Gallywix funds the Horde's war campaign and understands Azerite better than the rest of them.
You saw what Dreven was capable of, Wyrmbane. What if there are more like him?
Forgive my interruption, but I believe you're both right.
We cannot let either of these opportunities escape us... And we don't need to.
Allow your new allies, the void elves, to lead the charge in eliminating Gallywix.
We will hunt him down and bring you his head, while Shandris maintains our focus on tracking that Blood Prince.
A wise strategy. I approve.
Thank you, Alleria. Your aid is most welcome.

Edit: More broadcast text here! Please see: http://www.wowhead.com/news=284052/broadcast-text-for-26530-voljin-shandris-sanlayn-gallywix-mia-greymane-cant-hug-#shandris-and-blood-prince-dreven for more information, this is exciting!

Previous post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20762287862?page=1
Counter Arguments
(Credit to Balesong from the previous thread, on page 25!)
"I don't understand why people have to come to this thread if they dislike the Sanlayn so much. We get it "No more elves." "I want something else." "Not gonna happen." Well, you guys aren't Blizzard and until Blizzard says "no" we are allowed to dream and debate. This shouldn't bother them this much. If they support another race, they're wasting the time they could be spending rallying support for the race they do want.

Arguments debunked:

Numbers (By the void elves)

Faction blurring (Sanlayn are for the Horde)

Too much like Belf (Have you seen the Blood Prince Models? Do Belves have wings? *not including Demonhunters*)

No High Elves, No Sanlayn (Nonsense, Sanlayn look vastly different than Belves and this argument doesn't make sense.)

Other races first (Fine with me.)

So yeah, you're not going to rain on our parade or make us agree with you. For those of you who want other allied races, I hope you get them."
Previous Discussion Topic, Continued!

Post by Mardrigala, on page 26 of Part 2 (link in post above!)
"It would be giving horde a gryphon option, but I was looking through pictures from the chinese WoW client (to show the differences because they're not allowed to show bones, gore, ect...even their abominations have sealed bellies), and instead of the stupid boney chicken gryphon they originally gave death knights, they have a cool essentially 'dark' gryphon. (top of the picture, the bottom is the lame one we got)

https://ibb.co/nnYdBx"

My response

I love that dark gryphon. Imagine that, but a gryphon with bloodied wings or something? Granted, the Alliance would have to get a Wind Rider option too, but I don't mind giving them that. Also, we should have a skeletal wind rider for some mount! No idea from what, but I think it'd be neat.
Here to show my support as always. I hope you guys get what you want in the end :)
+1 Support
Here for support and to enjoy others thoughts on this.
Supporting! San'layn would be badass for Horde!
Blood Princes can resurrect conscious undead right? If so we may see Sylvanas try to recruit them before long.
04/29/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Hordehighelf
Blood Princes can resurrect conscious undead right? If so we may see Sylvanas try to recruit them before long.
Yeah she could see it as a opportunity to raise dead if she rans out of Val'kyrs. But it's still vague if San'layn can raise dead or do they turn living one into San'layn? Is San'layn even undead? Lol, many questions.
Would their voice overs have a dracula inspired accent or would they be more like the standard elf voice but maybe a little more vain or decadent.
I would prefer to see more variants like they did with the mag'har. Maybe add in an array of undead, Dark rangers, san'layn, undead orcs or mummy trolls. More undead at all would be cool.
Might as well post this here too.

Designs for Undead Elves
Likely alterations/additions-
-Black marks under their eyes like Sylvanas.
-Darker more muted hair colors. With White/Grey hair options.
-Grey/Black/White skin.
-Red Eyes.

Possible Additions/Alterations-
-Bandages to hide rot because they are more vain than other undead.
-Slightly skinnier because they are dead. Ribs showing etc.
-Sylvanas's "Banshee" form as a racial. Possibly Vampiric Racials as well?
-Gothic themes to tie it all together.

Recruitment concept
A small group of San'Layn survived Ice Crown and returned to their homeland to live out their "lives" in peace. They live with other undead elves and have taught them the use of Blood Magic and the powers of Vampirism. Sylvans wants to use their powers to augment her Dark Rangers and tries to get them to join the Horde.

Or

Sylvanas has you raid Icecrown Citadel for a mysterious coffin. After almost dying you find a San'Layn inside and Sylvanas makes him an offer he can't refuse.

Any additional thoughts?
I really hope they can deliver on the eyes. I think that some options should have a mixture of intense red and black to maybe to show some deep hunger.
God damn, you people sure have a bunch of raging hard ons for "more race variants" of existing races. Y'all need a hobby outside of WoW me thinks.

I can't support this for anything at all. Now, if you want to introduce some sort of Vamparism condition, similar to what you find in Elder Scrolls, that I can support.
04/29/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Drede
Any additional thoughts?
As for recruitment concept, I think Blood Princes looking for aid of Horde to survive and joining would make sense as Blood Prince Dereven seemed like he was being chased by Alliance.
04/29/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Medeoan
God damn, you people sure have a bunch of raging hard ons for "more race variants" of existing races. Y'all need a hobby outside of WoW me thinks.

I can't support this for anything at all. Now, if you want to introduce some sort of Vamparism condition, similar to what you find in Elder Scrolls, that I can support.

It's easier to add an allied race then it is to add whole new systems.

I think most people would rather full races to allied races, but it's easier to add animations and customization to an existing model. So nothing? or some more customization options.
04/29/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Medeoan
God damn, you people sure have a bunch of raging hard ons for "more race variants" of existing races. Y'all need a hobby outside of WoW me thinks.

I can't support this for anything at all. Now, if you want to introduce some sort of Vamparism condition, similar to what you find in Elder Scrolls, that I can support.


I mean, they've asked several times now to hear what people would like to see for future allied races, and to post those suggestions to the forums and elsewhere.

Allied races can be new races, but they also support introducing variants of existing races. I don't see the problem here, sorry.
04/29/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Medeoan
God damn, you people sure have a bunch of raging hard ons for "more race variants" of existing races. Y'all need a hobby outside of WoW me thinks.

I can't support this for anything at all. Now, if you want to introduce some sort of Vamparism condition, similar to what you find in Elder Scrolls, that I can support.

...Need a hobby....outside of WoW... told this by someone on the forums...when Blizzard asked for what we want to see on Allied Races... the hypocrisy is strong with this one.

04/29/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Xoroth
I really hope they can deliver on the eyes. I think that some options should have a mixture of intense red and black to maybe to show some deep hunger.


That would be really cool. I think people would be annoyed with a 'hunger' mechanic, but perhaps an 'enrage' sort of racial, a buildup out of combat, could work? Interesting idea. Could lead to an increase in leech before activation the longer one is out of combat.

04/29/2018 08:32 PMPosted by Dotbringer
04/29/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Drede
Any additional thoughts?
As for recruitment concept, I think Blood Princes looking for aid of Horde to survive and joining would make sense as Blood Prince Dereven seemed like he was being chased by Alliance.


Yeah very promising, and no doubt we'll be seeing more of him as things are datamined.
04/29/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Granfaloon
04/29/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Medeoan
God damn, you people sure have a bunch of raging hard ons for "more race variants" of existing races. Y'all need a hobby outside of WoW me thinks.

I can't support this for anything at all. Now, if you want to introduce some sort of Vamparism condition, similar to what you find in Elder Scrolls, that I can support.

It's easier to add an allied race then it is to add whole new systems.

I think most people would rather full races to allied races, but it's easier to add animations and customization to an existing model. So nothing? or some more customization options.


Exactly. "Allied races" are not that difficult to add, from what I've come to see. Plus, like I said, people have been asked for feedback. My gods people are ignorant sometimes.
Eh they would need to be a third faction. They are part of the scourge and only Bolvar could make that happen.

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