[Old] Balance Druid: Rotation & Talents

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05/17/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Tewdee
A bandaid on a bleeding wound doesn't staunch the bleeding but it's better than nothing and it's all we can expect with such a short time table left.

At this point, PTR of the prepatch looms and we'll be losing our artifacts soon. They're likely not iterating very much on anything except numbers and a few precise class changes.

If Druid was going to get any significant changes, we wouldn't have been left with 0 changes for almost the entirety of the testing period.

Blizzard is likely pleased that Druid talents go against their core philosophy, that our gameplay is stagnant and that the GCD rules we've got our arbitrary (mostly for Feral) and I fear all they're doing now is figuring out how much they want to tune Wrath's damage.

They gave us Hibernate so we can cast it on each other to make our characters represent how we feel.

I lol'ed at your hibernate joke. I'm not against the bandaid fixes. They're all we can hope for now. I just don't agree that OI makes boomkin a great spec to play. It just makes it less bad. I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom. The spec isn't beyond redemption it's just boring.
I just changed my loot drop to resto. Gonna have raid heal next expac and just hope Boomkin is sufficient for questing if nothing else.

This expac is really turning out to be a huge disappointment. I’m not sure my sub will survive it at this rate.
While number tuning isn't done yet, Resto leveling on beta is just as efficient as Boomie.
05/17/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Tewdee
While number tuning isn't done yet, Resto leveling on beta is just as efficient as Boomie.


My experience was pretty poor with resto leveling. Was getting murdered by the 110 bugs in silithus.
05/17/2018 05:43 PMPosted by Aforethought
05/17/2018 05:40 PMPosted by Tewdee
While number tuning isn't done yet, Resto leveling on beta is just as efficient as Boomie.


My experience was pretty poor with resto leveling. Was getting murdered by the 110 bugs in silithus.


Exactly.
05/17/2018 03:58 PMPosted by Delekii
If you were writing a bot for Moonkin, it would be 5 spells, but in a 100% predictable ordering, with no reason to ever change. With the current iteration of moonkin, you can calculate right now the exact spell that the moonkin will be casting at 5 seconds, 500 seconds, 5000 seconds, or 50000 seconds into combat. That is beyond dull.
Sounds like a 5-box Boomy bot dream.
05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
  • Solar Empowerment and Lunar Empowerment do not provide rewarding gameplay.
  • Single-target rotation can be optimized by a CastSequence macro.
  • This is two-parts and our two most important goals for the spec’s changelist going into BfA (and they tie in with each other):

    First is to add something interesting to the base rotation. As many have pointed out, Balance Druid’s baseline rotation is pretty predictable, and doesn’t offer much in the way of procs or reactionary gameplay. New baseline passive: Solar Wrath has a 20% chance to grant Lunar Empowerment. Lunar Strike has a 20% chance to grant Solar Empowerment. The goal here is to break up the monotony of chain-casting of only one generator with procs that incentivize you to use the other generator.

    Second is to make Solar/Lunar Empowerments more meaningful. The damage bonus they provide on live isn’t negligible, but they don’t provide anything interesting other than damage. It’s hard to make a damage bonus with no created gameplay feel like a bonus psychologically, when you know in the back of your mind that everyone’s damage is tuned to be similar at the end of the day. We’re trying two changes here:
    • Solar Empowerment is changing into: Causes your next Solar Wrath to explode for an additional X% of its damage to all nearby enemies (also hits the primary target). This helps to differentiate the two Empowerments a bit mechanically and visually. It also gives Solar Empowerments, which are now granted by Lunar Strike, an AOE component so that when it procs while you’re AOEing with Lunar Strike, you feel good about getting and using the Solar Empowerment proc. Currently the Solar Empowerment bonus is half the value of Lunar Empowerment’s damage bonus, and scales by Mastery at the same half rate.
    • Starlord talent is becoming baseline, making Lunar and Solar Empowerment always reduce the cast time of their affected spells by 15%. This is a simple and direct way for Empowerments to be felt and desired. Starlord is being redesigned into: Starsurge grants you 3% Haste for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times. Gaining a stack does not refresh the duration. (Tier 20 4-pc bonus)

    This doesn't instantly make Empowerments the most interesting class mechanic in the game, but it should be a step forward.
    05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
  • Fury of Elune, Sunfire, and Lunar Strike do not share the same splash radius.
  • We’ve increased/standardized the splash radius of Lunar Strike, Fury of Elune, Full Moon, and Sunfire to 8 yds. Many of the 3-5 yd radius AOEs in the game started off as: Let’s make this spell effect that looks explosion-y, but won’t impact AOE damage too much, so let’s make it a small 3 yd radius. In practice, having AOE capability means players want to make use of it, and when it’s 3-5 yds it’s very difficult to and thus can be frustrating. 8 yds means you can more easily hit a basic clump of enemies on you or the tank.
    05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
  • Lunar Strike is insignificant in AOE despite having a splash mechanic.
  • Lunar Strike’s radius increasing from 5 to 8 yds should be noticeable, but we can probably safely nudge up the splash damage a bit (25->33%) and see how it plays. Note that next week you’ll see a 10% reduction to Lunar Strike’s base damage – that’s to mirror a new 10% reduction to its base cast time (2.5->2.25 sec). This makes Lunar Strike’s cast time and Astral Power generation to be each exactly 50% higher than Solar Wrath, and makes it no longer slower resource generation/ramp with Lunar Strike than Solar Wrath.
    05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
    Stellar Flare suffers from a very heavy cost. A Starfall that costs 60, plus the Stellar Flare (10), plus the fact we aren't casting a filler (8), means Stellar Flare costs a bit too much.
    Stellar Flare requiring a Starfall to be down to get a large portion of its damage felt bad – it’s a kind of weird negative synergy with both being Astral Power spenders. We’ve removed the Stellar Empowerment portion of it, and instead its damage is increased by Balance mastery (the portion that increases Astral Power spender damage), and kept its 10 Astral Power for now.

    One use case for Stellar Flare was that it can be a spender for targets that can’t all be covered by a single Starfall (even though Stellar Drift covers the entire world and pulls the floor above), and this use case pointed even more toward removing the Stellar Empowerment requirement portion of it. I think Stellar Flare is still looking for its place on the spec - we’ll continue to look for opportunities to improve/change it.
    05/01/2018 12:21 AMPosted by Cyouskin
    AOE gameplay is too reliant on Shooting Stars. Other talents do not come close to the performance of Shooting Stars.
    Shooting Stars looks/feels cool, but provided just a little too much Astral Power. Especially considering that the talent row it’s now on (with Stellar Drift and Stellar Flare) provides no other resources generation, reducing its Astral power proc makes sense.
    05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
    Force of Nature suffers from scaling issues. The other talents have a notable effect on Astral Power generation.
    Agree that summoning some Treants on a long cooldown doesn’t bring much in terms of mechanical interaction. It now generates some Astral Power over its duration.
    05/01/2018 12:21 AMPosted by Cyouskin
    The current rate of Astral Power generation is pretty low.
    Starsurge’s cost hasn’t been changed, but some amount of Astral Power generation has been added to a few places – Warrior of Elune, Force of Nature, Fury of Elune (now a generator instead of spender), Nature’s Balance (new design). Additionally, the average cast speed of your two generators has been meaningfully sped up, with Starlord’s 15% cast time reduction becoming baseline. Definitely will be keeping an eye on pacing feedback.
    05/01/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Maruul
    And for the love of god remove Nature's Balance, I have never seen a talent that makes me more depressed. I dread the day I have to pick it because it's the best, it is horribly unexciting and makes the rotation even more wrath spam. Don't make it baseline, don't buff it, just delete it.
    Agree here. The bonus it provided ended up making the single-target rotation less engaging, even if it was sometimes nice to have in multitarget situations.

    The new/redesigned version of Nature's Balance is: While in combat, you generate 2 Astral Power every 3 sec. While out of combat, your Astral Power rebalances to 50 instead of depleting to empty. It's a combination of the live Blessing of An'she talent (which has been removed and one half folded into this one) and the new effect which removes out-of-combat Astral Power degeneration while below half, allowing you to enter combat with up to 50 Astral Power, which allows a Starsurge or Starfall on the opener.
    05/08/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Gärzen
    Welp the new build came out today and another nerf in the form of Soul of the Forest only reduces the cost of starfall by 10 down from 20. Thats the nail in the coffin right there, destroyed the rest of our niche. This was the build we were looking forward to.
    Starfall’s base Astral Power cost has been reduced to 50. We probably should have waited to make that change to Soul of the Forest along with the rest of the changes to the spec. Overall, that reduction to Soul of the Forest is still the right thing (I think many of you agree) - 1/3 off the cost of Starfall for a talent is pretty overboard – but without the context of the rest of the changes it’s understandable that it doesn’t look right.
    05/13/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Comfybundles
    Please give us a way to spread Moonfire on multiple targets.
    Twin Moons is a new talent that causes Moonfire to deal additional damage and also hit a second nearby enemy within 20 yds of that target. (a.k.a legendary shoulders) This was useful functionality that helped with ramp in multitarget situations and was also visually satisfying.

    One other change is to Celestial Alignment/Incarnation. Instead of providing +50% Astral Power generation on Lunar Strike/Solar Wrath, they now provide 15% Haste (and their damage bonus has been tuned down slightly for now). The spec’s resource is a bit of a not-super-stable balance of Astral Power and Lunar/Solar Empowerment generation/consumption, and Celestial Alignment/Incarnation sometimes caused resource/Empowerments overflow, a problem that a Haste bonus doesn’t have.

    Thanks for all the well-written and constructive feedback, especially from the original poster.
    PRAISE ELUNE
    Excellent changes. :heart:
    05/17/2018 07:35 PMPosted by Seph

    Thanks for all the well-written and constructive feedback, especially from the original poster.


    THANK YOU
    Almost could cry. Thank you, Blues. Sounds AMAZING!!!!
    Thank you Blizz *cries tears of joy. Thank you.
    Awesome changes, thanks for listening to the feedback.
    I didnt think it would happen....

    Thank you Seph.
    Seph thank you for your feedback, it is appreciated more than you know. Regardless of the reaction to these changes I just want you to know that we are grateful for your feedback!
    Thank you so much Cyous for your thread breaking down the spec. I'm really glad we got a blue poster in here and the amount of details they gave us is quite welcome. I am really excited to test these changes out and start providing feedback!

    Edit: Thank you Seph for taking the time to break it all down. We really were wondering what was going on and it is a good feeling to finally get a blue in here.
    Wow, legit shocked Beta's almost over and we're getting a very nice list of changes. Thank you for this!

    One thing I'd like to point out though, consider making Starlord also proc from Starfall or that talent will be shied away from for AoE, since both WoE and FoN are useful in AoE and ST situations, and 4P T20 does work off both spells.
    By the Earth Mother this is fantastic. I'll admit there are a couple points I was a bit bummed about but this rework will be a HUGE breath of fresh air.

    Just a word to the wise - give us a heads up to potential changes next time so we're not in total despair ;)
    Back off the bench boys!
    well done.

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