Heroic Coven

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
What is the hardest fight in H-Antorus, and why is it Heroic Coven?
Coven is easy
Because there are many ways to die, and sometimes they are up simultaneously (RNG can make it harder on some pulls).
And many of them require movement and dodging other stuff at the same time.

Go look at anyone's raid kills and almost all of them will have fewer H Coven kills than H Aggramar or H Argus kills.
It's easy since they fixed the storm to not automatically tick before you have a chance to react
Coven is the hardest for first kill. Aggramar is the hardest for farm. Neither should be that hard after a few kills on both.
It's the many different combinations of death that could happen.
My least favorite is when there are Fulminating Pulse and Chilled blood at the same time because I'm so focused on healing that I tend to die to other mechanics that are easy to dodge otherwise.
....or the time I ran for safety behind the wall of old men and got hit by a shadow blade in the narrow walkway which sent me flying into the pile of old men rooted behind me.
I'm sure everyone has a bunch of stories of the absolutely ludicrous and non repeatable ways they died.
05/01/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Hulaturtle
It's the many different combinations of death that could happen.
My least favorite is when there are Fulminating Pulse and Chilled blood at the same time because I'm so focused on healing that I tend to die to other mechanics that are easy to dodge otherwise.
....or the time I ran for safety behind the wall of old men and got hit by a shadow blade in the narrow walkway which sent me flying into the pile of old men rooted behind me.
I'm sure everyone has a bunch of stories of the absolutely ludicrous and non repeatable ways they died.


Those ways aren't non repeatable or anything, they are easily avoidable?
It's the one boss with the most RNG of everything in Heroic ABT, so while not the hardest mechanic, it can have some situations where you just get a bad combo of affixes, or can also be super easy if you luck out.
05/01/2018 10:06 AMPosted by Sxq
It's easy since they fixed the storm to not automatically tick before you have a chance to react


It is easy 90% of the time since they fixed that. The other 10% you CAN get completely screwed by RNG. I'm normally fine due to turtle but i feel for classes that don't have an immunity.


Those ways aren't non repeatable or anything, they are easily avoidable?


Oh yeah ... Easily avoidable. How many times have you died to "easily avoidable"? I'll bet it's only easily avoidable after the first time.
I still don't understand this RNG stuff. If it was truly RNG then you would expect to encounter situations where you just get screwed and can't do anything about it (this would be TERRIBLE encounter design btw) ... but in my experience there is always a skill play that can be made to survive.

Raiding isn't a solo activity though so it's always possible for your party members to fail something that kills you but RNG party members are a lot different than RNG mechanics and no amount of tuning will fix them.
05/01/2018 03:14 PMPosted by Brissandy
I still don't understand this RNG stuff. If it was truly RNG then you would expect to encounter situations where you just get screwed and can't do anything about it (this would be TERRIBLE encounter design btw) ... but in my experience there is always a skill play that can be made to survive.

Raiding isn't a solo activity though so it's always possible for your party members to fail something that kills you but RNG party members are a lot different than RNG mechanics and no amount of tuning will fix them.


There are situations where you get screwed and can't do anything about it. Mostly when walking adds overlap with storms. Adds can be cc'd and protect yourself that way, but i've seen it where ALL the safe spots were on one side of the room where we didn't cc the wall. Everyone was on cooldown and couldn't get thru. I survived due to turtle but i don't blame anyone who died that pull.

Sure we could have saved someones cooldown specifically for this situation, but having to expect something like that to happen is a bit beyond what you'd normally expect for heroic difficulty.
05/01/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Sightblindër
Adds can be cc'd and protect yourself that way, but i've seen it where ALL the safe spots were on one side of the room where we didn't cc the wall.

Just CC every wall. You don't need to CC all adds, just have some holes to pass.
05/01/2018 03:14 PMPosted by Brissandy
I still don't understand this RNG stuff. If it was truly RNG then you would expect to encounter situations where you just get screwed and can't do anything about it (this would be TERRIBLE encounter design btw) ... but in my experience there is always a skill play that can be made to survive.

Raiding isn't a solo activity though so it's always possible for your party members to fail something that kills you but RNG party members are a lot different than RNG mechanics and no amount of tuning will fix them.


There are situations where you get screwed and can't do anything about it. Mostly when walking adds overlap with storms. Adds can be cc'd and protect yourself that way, but i've seen it where ALL the safe spots were on one side of the room where we didn't cc the wall. Everyone was on cooldown and couldn't get thru. I survived due to turtle but i don't blame anyone who died that pull.

Sure we could have saved someones cooldown specifically for this situation, but having to expect something like that to happen is a bit beyond what you'd normally expect for heroic difficulty.

05/01/2018 04:44 PMPosted by Misuzu
05/01/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Sightblindër
Adds can be cc'd and protect yourself that way, but i've seen it where ALL the safe spots were on one side of the room where we didn't cc the wall.

Just CC every wall. You don't need to CC all adds, just have some holes to pass.


And then the only safe zones are INSIDE the wall and you have to break said cc. You have about 3 seconds to react to complete randomness before storm starts killing people.
05/01/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Sightblindër
And then the only safe zones are INSIDE the wall and you have to break said cc. You have about 3 seconds to react to complete randomness before storm starts killing people.

There's a lot of safe zones, and you can tell where they'll appear because they have fixed areas to spawn. You can always have someone hold a CD like Ring of Peace to stop some adds going to your safe zone.

My first heroic kill I just opened a path with RoP in a place where I knew the safe zone would spawn (https://imgur.com/a/h3FIPxO). For mythic we just CC'ed all adds (I don't know why the RL form my old guild never wanted to CC everything).
05/01/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Misuzu
05/01/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Sightblindër
And then the only safe zones are INSIDE the wall and you have to break said cc. You have about 3 seconds to react to complete randomness before storm starts killing people.

There's a lot of safe zones, and you can tell where they'll appear because they have fixed areas to spawn. You can always have someone hold a CD like Ring of Peace to stop some adds going to your safe zone.

My first heroic kill I just opened a path with RoP in a place where I knew the safe zone would spawn (https://imgur.com/a/h3FIPxO). For mythic we just CC'ed all adds (I don't know why the RL form my old guild never wanted to CC everything).


There are not fixed areas. There are places where they are more likely to appear compared to other areas of the room, but there is no place that is fixed to always have a safe zone.
05/01/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Sightblindër
05/01/2018 03:14 PMPosted by Brissandy
I still don't understand this RNG stuff. If it was truly RNG then you would expect to encounter situations where you just get screwed and can't do anything about it (this would be TERRIBLE encounter design btw) ... but in my experience there is always a skill play that can be made to survive.

Raiding isn't a solo activity though so it's always possible for your party members to fail something that kills you but RNG party members are a lot different than RNG mechanics and no amount of tuning will fix them.


There are situations where you get screwed and can't do anything about it. Mostly when walking adds overlap with storms. Adds can be cc'd and protect yourself that way, but i've seen it where ALL the safe spots were on one side of the room where we didn't cc the wall. Everyone was on cooldown and couldn't get thru. I survived due to turtle but i don't blame anyone who died that pull.

Sure we could have saved someones cooldown specifically for this situation, but having to expect something like that to happen is a bit beyond what you'd normally expect for heroic difficulty.

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Just CC every wall. You don't need to CC all adds, just have some holes to pass.


And then the only safe zones are INSIDE the wall and you have to break said cc. You have about 3 seconds to react to complete randomness before storm starts killing people.


The safe spots aren't as RnG as you think, there tends to be a few areas that spawn safe spots pretty frequently. Also having a BDK mass grip, or a druid's mass root, monk's ring of peace (not as ideal) and having the co-ordination to mark the room and assign players to cc various walls and this is the easiest mechanic to deal with. When our guild did it we had a BDK grip one side, and 3 druids each mass root a side, this CCed the vast majority of the adds, boom, no problem (this is how we dealt with it in mythic). Mythic there's no RnG, but you're guaranteed to get the walking adds with storm, it's guaranteed.

Even in heroic it's not random, you will get the adds first and then the safe spots. If you co-ordinate your CC so that everyone knows what side of the room they CC and they do it instantly, you're fine. There's 5 adds per wall. 3 can be mass rooted by druids, so use single target roots/stuns/monk incap/hunter trap whatever your raid has for the remaining guy that gets through if you're unlucky. Tar trap to slow, freezing trap to CC, etc. There's tons of utility available for those adds and they are the easiest adds to deal with by far.
There will ALWAYS be a safe zone along each of the 4 sides of the room. Therefore you never need to move more than 1 "square" if you're already waiting in the middle of one of the sides. The wall doesn't cover the safe zones unless you're too slow to cc them.

4 druids/blood dks completely negates the mechanic, or with less than that you just chain whatever ccs you do have
05/01/2018 11:44 PMPosted by Hemerick
There are not fixed areas. There are places where they are more likely to appear compared to other areas of the room, but there is no place that is fixed to always have a safe zone.

I said "fixed" because they always appear in the same spots, but in random order. If you do enough tries, you'll guess where the next set of safe zones will appear.
Aggramar is the hardest boss in heroic.

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