Heroic Coven

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
05/02/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Misuzu
05/01/2018 11:44 PMPosted by Hemerick
There are not fixed areas. There are places where they are more likely to appear compared to other areas of the room, but there is no place that is fixed to always have a safe zone.

I said "fixed" because they always appear in the same spots, but in random order. If you do enough tries, you'll guess where the next set of safe zones will appear.

I'm pretty sure that there's not set patterns. What there is is a limited number of pre-set places that they can spawn, and some conditionals to force there always to be safe spots for the safe spots.
For example, I know that if Golg adds are up, I can melee the ones on the sides from a safe spot, but not the ones in front and back because of where the safe zones spawn. However, I can't guarantee that a safe zone will spawn on either side. And when they do spawn, they don't always spawn with the same configuration, even if side area safe zones are a thing.
There is something that really irks me about people that insist that things are "easy" because "they" managed it to the point that it's no longer difficult .... I don't know about you but our guild wiped a lot of times before we got it ....as a matter of fact, we wiped so many times that by the time we finally got it down it jumped straight to a 1or 2 shot deal. Doesn't make it easy, just means it became manageable.
05/02/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Hulaturtle
There is something that really irks me about people that insist that things are "easy" because "they" managed it to the point that it's no longer difficult .... I don't know about you but our guild wiped a lot of times before we got it ....as a matter of fact, we wiped so many times that by the time we finally got it down it jumped straight to a 1or 2 shot deal. Doesn't make it easy, just means it became manageable.


My guild killed mythic coven in 10 tries. If the people in your guild actually know what they are doing, the boss is piss easy.
05/02/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Hulaturtle
There is something that really irks me about people that insist that things are "easy" because "they" managed it to the point that it's no longer difficult .... I don't know about you but our guild wiped a lot of times before we got it ....as a matter of fact, we wiped so many times that by the time we finally got it down it jumped straight to a 1or 2 shot deal. Doesn't make it easy, just means it became manageable.

My old guild wiped some time because the RL, for some reason, wanted to open a path between the adds wall, and make everyone pass there. I kept saying to CC everything until I gave up. When his "strategy" worked, the boss died. The storm never was a problem.
There are situations where you get screwed and can't do anything about it. Mostly when walking adds overlap with storms. Adds can be cc'd and protect yourself that way, but i've seen it where ALL the safe spots were on one side of the room where we didn't cc the wall. Everyone was on cooldown and couldn't get thru. I survived due to turtle but i don't blame anyone who died that pull.


For all the people I see complain about this, I've never once seen a mage portal out and get resummoned to take ring of frost, a monk go take ring of peace, a warlock drop a gateway in a remotely correct location, a hunter use binding shot, druids specced into mass entanglement, shaman specced into earth grab, a VDH go take sigil of chains, or paladins go take blinding light.

It's the easiest fight in the instance. Every mechanic is easily countered, and any "RNG" can be easily handled because DBM gives you 40 seconds advance notice that it's going to happen. If people can't use their talents, or their buttons, or talk within 40 seconds to formulate a plan on a "bad" overlap, then the boss deserves to punish you.

05/02/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Hulaturtle
There is something that really irks me about people that insist that things are "easy" because "they" managed it to the point that it's no longer difficult .... I don't know about you but our guild wiped a lot of times before we got it ....as a matter of fact, we wiped so many times that by the time we finally got it down it jumped straight to a 1or 2 shot deal. Doesn't make it easy, just means it became manageable.


No, that means you spent a lot of time reattempting a boss with a strat that didn't work and when you finally did start using one that worked, the boss died.

I don't understand why people blame the boss and not what they're doing? Everything is extremely telegraphed in this fight.
05/02/2018 10:57 AMPosted by Hulaturtle
There is something that really irks me about people that insist that things are "easy" because "they" managed it to the point that it's no longer difficult .... I don't know about you but our guild wiped a lot of times before we got it ....as a matter of fact, we wiped so many times that by the time we finally got it down it jumped straight to a 1or 2 shot deal. Doesn't make it easy, just means it became manageable.


You died to the wall of adds on your last kill because you were spec'd into Wild Charge (outclassed by Displacer Beast in literally every raid situation btw).

The other Druid in your group was standing in the same part of the room that you were when you died but he used DB to get to a safe spot.

On top of that, I can see that you used Mass Entangle there but still died which means you didn't put much thought into when/where to use it and seemingly just blindfired it.

The rest of your group also failed CCing but as I mentioned with the other Druid, you could have survived that regardless but you didn't have the right talents.

Which part of that was RNG or the fight being difficult through anything other than your groups choices and how they played?

Edit: I don't like it when people complain about how hard things are without looking to find/solve their problems first.
05/02/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Misuzu
05/01/2018 11:44 PMPosted by Hemerick
There are not fixed areas. There are places where they are more likely to appear compared to other areas of the room, but there is no place that is fixed to always have a safe zone.

I said "fixed" because they always appear in the same spots, but in random order. If you do enough tries, you'll guess where the next set of safe zones will appear.


I've been killing this boss since day one and there are no definable patterns, outside of the cheese they put in on golgonoth and healer add spawns because melee complained. The rest of the fight i've seen some complete BS spawns. Again, i'm literally invincible, so it's not much of a problem for me, but it's hard to argue against that particular RNG factor.
05/02/2018 02:50 PMPosted by Sightblindër
05/02/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Misuzu
...
I said "fixed" because they always appear in the same spots, but in random order. If you do enough tries, you'll guess where the next set of safe zones will appear.


I've been killing this boss since day one and there are no definable patterns, outside of the cheese they put in on golgonoth and healer add spawns because melee complained. The rest of the fight i've seen some complete BS spawns. Again, i'm literally invincible, so it's not much of a problem for me, but it's hard to argue against that particular RNG factor.


Agree that it does see pretty random though they do seem to have specific places they can spawn ... i.e. its not just completely random but the "layout" you get might change each time.

That said ... nearly every class has a skill play there.

DKs can mass grip, Druids can root/blink/typhoon (resto even has a vortex), Mage can blink or iceblock, Rogues/Hunters/Paladins can just walk through it, Warlocks can use demonic circle, Monks have ring of peace AND that teleport move ... not gonna list out every single ability that everybody can do but almost every class/spec either has a strong CC, a movement ability, and/or an immunity that can get them through that.

Nothing is going to help if you're playing with a bunch of potatoes though.
05/02/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Brissandy

Edit: I don't like it when people complain about how hard things are without looking to find/solve their problems first.


Ah yes. Comprehension issues from a level 1. ...share an anecdote about a retarded death and all of a sudden the shady level 1 attempts to elevate his dubious position as forum troll by changing "anecdote" into "complaint" and than attacking with his profound knowledge of other peoples problems based off of other other peoples discoveries.
05/02/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Hulaturtle
05/02/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Brissandy

Edit: I don't like it when people complain about how hard things are without looking to find/solve their problems first.


Ah yes. Comprehension issues from a level 1. ...share an anecdote about a retarded death and all of a sudden the shady level 1 attempts to elevate his dubious position as forum troll by changing "anecdote" into "complaint" and than attacking with his profound knowledge of other peoples problems based off of other other peoples discoveries.


I'm sorry that you're salty that I debunked your claim and pointed out where your group and you personally were failing.

Lets start over ...

Man, this fight sure is hard ... its no fun how all the abilities come out completely randomly and there's no way to counter them without just pure luck

Is that better?
05/02/2018 05:10 PMPosted by Brissandy

I'm sorry that you're salty that I debunked your claim and pointed out where your group and you personally were failing.

Lets start over ...

Man, this fight sure is hard ... its no fun how all the abilities come out completely randomly and there's no way to counter them without just pure luck

Is that better?


Another strawman. It's almost like you change the story to "win" a fight that never happened.

I'll guess that me being "irked" by a certain behavior must have hit pretty close to the mark.

It's okay, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by pointing out how annoying it is when others get a condescending tone just because someone else is having a more difficult time on an especially fluid fight.
05/02/2018 03:50 PMPosted by Hulaturtle
05/02/2018 02:14 PMPosted by Brissandy

Edit: I don't like it when people complain about how hard things are without looking to find/solve their problems first.


Ah yes. Comprehension issues from a level 1. ...share an anecdote about a retarded death and all of a sudden the shady level 1 attempts to elevate his dubious position as forum troll by changing "anecdote" into "complaint" and than attacking with his profound knowledge of other peoples problems based off of other other peoples discoveries.


Her being level 1 has no bearing on how correct she is in this situation. She literally went into your log and told you exactly how you could have done it better.

The fight. Is not. Difficult.

..................assuming good players
05/02/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Hulaturtle
05/02/2018 05:10 PMPosted by Brissandy

I'm sorry that you're salty that I debunked your claim and pointed out where your group and you personally were failing.

Lets start over ...

Man, this fight sure is hard ... its no fun how all the abilities come out completely randomly and there's no way to counter them without just pure luck

Is that better?


Another strawman. It's almost like you change the story to "win" a fight that never happened.

I'll guess that me being "irked" by a certain behavior must have hit pretty close to the mark.

It's okay, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by pointing out how annoying it is when others get a condescending tone just because someone else is having a more difficult time on an especially fluid fight.


Didn't hurt my feelings. I quite literally don't care if you kill Coven ever again. I tried to help and was relatively polite about it considering how much whining you've been doing about "unfair" mechanics ... was tempting to flame you harder but it's low hanging fruit and that's not fun.

You might be interested to know that I actually had my first Coven death in nearly 4 months tonight though.

I died because I wasn't watching where I was standing and I overlapped my lightning with another player ... I knew well in advance those adds were coming and that I needed a safe spot ... I wasn't paying attention and failed the mechanic.

That's my fault ... not RNG or bad luck.

That my friend is called personal responsibility and accountability ... try it out some time.
05/02/2018 08:55 PMPosted by Brissandy
05/02/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Hulaturtle
...

Another strawman. It's almost like you change the story to "win" a fight that never happened.

I'll guess that me being "irked" by a certain behavior must have hit pretty close to the mark.

It's okay, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings by pointing out how annoying it is when others get a condescending tone just because someone else is having a more difficult time on an especially fluid fight.


Didn't hurt my feelings. I quite literally don't care if you kill Coven ever again. I tried to help and was relatively polite about it considering how much whining you've been doing about "unfair" mechanics ... was tempting to flame you harder but it's low hanging fruit and that's not fun.

You might be interested to know that I actually had my first Coven death in nearly 4 months tonight though.

I died because I wasn't watching where I was standing and I overlapped my lightning with another player ... I knew well in advance those adds were coming and that I needed a safe spot ... I wasn't paying attention and failed the mechanic.

That's my fault ... not RNG or bad luck.

That my friend is called personal responsibility and accountability ... try it out some time.


There's no excuse to die to the lightning adds though. Don't get me wrong i'm not harping on you for messing up, but i've SEEN situations where someone got gibbed by storm/walkers and had no real options. Bad combination of CCs, or just incredibly bad safe zone placement. Walking adds alone should never kill you, but storm doesn't always give you time to adjust. You CAN get screwed on that fight, assuming you don't have an invulnerability.
Heroic Coven was tough at first, especially for groups who have't gotten it down yet, or theyre only on their second or third run of the fight. I know for our group, it took us 20 tries to get them down the first time. Now, we are able to 1-2 shot it depending on RNG o where the safety circles spawn during what add phase. After you do it often enough, as with most fights in general, it becomes a lot easier.

For my group, we had a harder time with aggramar than we did coven. We usually get stuck on him more than coven! If anything, I find that fight to be harder, but only because it requires a lot of communication and coordination. Coven is one of those fights where self survivability comes big into play and knowing whether staying alive is more important that getting a spell off. Sometimes you gotta stop attacking. A living DPS still does more damage than a dead one.
05/10/2018 05:30 PMPosted by Shuyi
Heroic Coven was tough at first, especially for groups who have't gotten it down yet, or theyre only on their second or third run of the fight. I know for our group, it took us 20 tries to get them down the first time. Now, we are able to 1-2 shot it depending on RNG o where the safety circles spawn during what add phase. After you do it often enough, as with most fights in general, it becomes a lot easier.

For my group, we had a harder time with aggramar than we did coven. We usually get stuck on him more than coven! If anything, I find that fight to be harder, but only because it requires a lot of communication and coordination. Coven is one of those fights where self survivability comes big into play and knowing whether staying alive is more important that getting a spell off. Sometimes you gotta stop attacking. A living DPS still does more damage than a dead one.


To comment on this, I'd agree largely. An alt of mine raids with a heroic only guild (they dipped into 2/11 mythic for funziez). Clearing heroic, Coven took them 40 pulls, Agg took 10. Now on farm, Coven is always a one shot, but Agg can take 2-3 pulls.

I find it funny. All the bosses we once had trouble with we steamroll, but Agg, due to his add mechanics, stubbornly refuses to be "true" farm.
Aggramar has almost no rng whatsoever in that fight. Try to have ccers do same targets every clear and it's total ezmode. Also ccers need to let their adds go so dk never has to move to pull.

Coven really isn't hard just random can truly be random sometimes
I had an interesting situation last night. Something really slowed my movement speed right before a storm came and so I died as I was trying to get to the safe spot.

Is that something that could/should have been dispelled?
05/15/2018 08:54 AMPosted by Qualanthar
I had an interesting situation last night. Something really slowed my movement speed right before a storm came and so I died as I was trying to get to the safe spot.

Is that something that could/should have been dispelled?


No, it's not something that can be dispelled.

There is an orb of frost that gets dropped by Diima that will greatly slow anybody in it's area. Spawns on a random ranged player. You just have to avoid it.
05/10/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Seriousbacon
Aggramar has almost no rng whatsoever in that fight. Try to have ccers do same targets every clear and it's total ezmode. Also ccers need to let their adds go so dk never has to move to pull.


It's still objectively a harder fight.

The only difference between Aggramar and Coven is people are smart enough to know that Agg is impossible without preassigning CC's out. The majority of groups just don't communicate what they're going to do for walls, the DPS split for healing adds, or positioning of kaz adds.

The only way that Aggramar is easier than Coven is if you're full 960 raid. Well, congrats you can brute force the majority of the mechanics on Agg. Coven is well designed because you CAN'T brute force the mechanics, which is why people whine and cry about it.

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