Warmode and the future of wPvP: Incentives

War Mode and World PvP
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I had mixed feelings regarding scaling and gear considering WoW is still an MMORPG, but I'll ignore that for now to analyze the possible positives of Warmode.

So, with Warmode we're getting scaling, which will make it much harder to faceroll players with lower gear. This evens the playing field for everyone, making fights actually fair.

If you give players a reason to fight each other, wPvP will happen.

We need a way to make the player experience from Normal / Warmode very distinct from each other:

1) Incentivize wPvP encounters:
Now more than ever, make honorable kills in wPvP matter. Make them count. It's not about gear / player level anymore. Make it feel like a high risk / high reward situation: kill or be killed. Questing has a current issue right now, which is that it's very easy to succeed and hard to fail.

Buff their honor up, make them give experience while leveling, make it fun. Make tokens that you can exchange for cosmetics, conquest, gear, etc. It's time to give honorable kills in wPvP some love. With scaling coming to wPvP, there shouldn't be a reason not to fight in the open world.

2) Reward the risk and negatives of being flagged for wPvP:
Some might disagree here, but for wPvP to happen, I believe that flying mounts should be disabled. Flying mounts make engages and escapes way, way too easy. Escaping and engaging should be done by the player (hiding, ccing and running); not by a mount. Flying trivalizes wPvP and the threat that comes with it.
This would inevitably make questing slower, so I believe some sort of numerical buff to experience, quest rewards and resources acquired during warmode will be necessary.

3) Make content around wPvP:
04/27/2018 07:48 AMPosted by Jharax
Quoting Ion Hazzikostas, from "What's Next" at Blizzcon:

"We have a foundation upon which we can build a new generation of World PvP content."

"We could create all new content, whether it's bounty hunting quests, or quests that send you to assasinate high value targets in enemy territory, and encourage some of that organic conflict and reward it in a way that we never could before."
Avoid Warden Tower type quests; make us fight players or go into zones where interaction between players must happen. Attack / defend targets, zones, etc.

---

I believe that if done correctly, we can have something very, very good going with wPvP. It's not just "wPvP" anymore; it's called Warmode for a reason. Make it live up to its name.

It's on Blizzard to give this side of the game some love.
We hope to have War Mode up very soon for everyone to try out. Until then, I’ll outline a few details:

Honor Talents enabled
As mentioned by Ion and others, Honor Talents are on permanently while War Mode is enabled in the outdoor world. This was the case in Legion as well, but they would only enable when you got into “PvP combat” causing them to enable and disable while playing which ended up feeling a bit “janky.” Players may also find some added benefit with Honor Talents against normal PvE creatures as well, which is designed to be part of a “package of bonuses” to offset the inherit lost efficiency of World PvP.

Gear scaling
In order to create a fair fights and good gameplay, our goal is to limit the extremes in power between players in War Mode that come from gear and level. We want you to have an advantage if your gear is better, but within reason. The experience should be something similar to Unrated Battlegrounds in Legion (but without the stat templates). Keep in mind this is scaling only in PvP combat, so your power against creatures in the world will remain the same as it would be with War Mode disabled.

Conquest and World PvP
In Battle for Azeroth you’ll earn conquest for doing PvP activities similar to how it was gained in the past: Rated Arena and Rated Battlegrounds as well as some light conquest from Unrated Battlegrounds. But what’s new is earning conquest from doing World PvP activities. This gives you an additional source when filling up that “conquest bar” for your weekly conquest item.

Bounty Hunting
How do you earn conquest in World PvP? One source is from killing other players, of course. But the more of the opposing faction you slay, the higher chance they will put a bounty on your head. When a bounty is put on you, it will be announced to all opposing players in the zone and you will appear on the main map for a reward. Good luck!

And more...
While we have one or two other content features in War Mode we’ll share later on, one of our goals is to keep it minimal. As you point out Ion saying, we want to create a foundation first which we can hopefully build upon (with your feedback!) in the future.
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
we want to create a foundation first which we can hopefully build upon (with your feedback!) in the future.


What about flying? That is a core component and should be a major pillar of the War Mode foundation. War Mode should restrict travel to the ground.

One of the changes that has taken a toll on WPvP, has been flying. Up until Cata, we had the Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor. WPvP flourished on these continents throughout B.C/WotLK. When the Cata prepatch launched, we saw an end to that playground. Even to this day, WPvP is a hollowed out shell in the majority zones, mainly due to the freedom flying offers.

If PvP is your focus for War Mode and you plan to extend this to area's outside of BfA (where you can fly), then please help the rest of the world benefit from this new design.

This IS NOT going to create the WPvP environment most are seeking. You Devs should understand why we want this. The same ideology you preach about delaying flying in the last 2 expansion, carrying on into BfA, APPLIES TO WPvP.

Net-o-Matic 5000

Use: Dismounts an enemy player from their flying mount. Can only be used while within War Mode.
"The range is insane!"
(10 sec cooldown)
Requires Level 40


https://beta.wowdb.com/items/163604-net-o-matic-5000
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Gear scaling
In order to create a fair fights and good gameplay, our goal is to limit the extremes in power between players in War Mode that come from gear and level. We want you to have an advantage if your gear is better, but within reason. The experience should be something similar to Unrated Battlegrounds in Legion (but without the stat templates). Keep in mind this is scaling only in PvP combat, so your power against creatures in the world will remain the same as it would be with War Mode disabled.


THANK. YOU.
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Bounty Hunting
How do you earn conquest in World PvP? One source is from killing other players, of course. But the more of the opposing faction you slay, the higher chance they will put a bounty on your head. When a bounty is put on you, it will be announced to all opposing players in the zone and you will appear on the main map for a reward. Good luck!


Yup... I'm in trouble...
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
We hope to have War Mode up very soon for everyone to try out. Until then, I’ll outline a few details:

Honor Talents enabled
As mentioned by Ion and others, Honor Talents are on permanently while War Mode is enabled in the outdoor world. This was the case in Legion as well, but they would only enable when you got into “PvP combat” causing them to enable and disable while playing which ended up feeling a bit “janky.” Players may also find some added benefit with Honor Talents against normal PvE creatures as well, which is designed to be part of a “package of bonuses” to offset the inherit lost efficiency of World PvP.

Gear scaling
In order to create a fair fights and good gameplay, our goal is to limit the extremes in power between players in War Mode that come from gear and level. We want you to have an advantage if your gear is better, but within reason. The experience should be something similar to Unrated Battlegrounds in Legion (but without the stat templates). Keep in mind this is scaling only in PvP combat, so your power against creatures in the world will remain the same as it would be with War Mode disabled.

Conquest and World PvP
In Battle for Azeroth you’ll earn conquest for doing PvP activities similar to how it was gained in the past: Rated Arena and Rated Battlegrounds as well as some light conquest from Unrated Battlegrounds. But what’s new is earning conquest from doing World PvP activities. This gives you an additional source when filling up that “conquest bar” for your weekly conquest item.

Bounty Hunting
How do you earn conquest in World PvP? One source is from killing other players, of course. But the more of the opposing faction you slay, the higher chance they will put a bounty on your head. When a bounty is put on you, it will be announced to all opposing players in the zone and you will appear on the main map for a reward. Good luck!

And more...
While we have one or two other content features in War Mode we’ll share later on, one of our goals is to keep it minimal. As you point out Ion saying, we want to create a foundation first which we can hopefully build upon (with your feedback!) in the future.
Thank you for answering! Looking forward to those bounty hunting quests!
04/30/2018 07:12 PMPosted by River
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
we want to create a foundation first which we can hopefully build upon (with your feedback!) in the future.


What about flying? That is a core component and a major pillar of the War Mode foundation. War Mode should restrict travel to the ground.

One of the changes that has taken a toll on WPvP, has been flying. Up until Cata, we had the Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor. WPvP flourished on these continents throughout B.C/WotLK. When the Cata prepatch launched, we saw an end to that playground. Even to this day, WPvP is a hollowed out shell in the majority zones, mainly due to the freedom flying offers.

If PvP is your focus for War Mode and you plan to extend this to area's outside of BfA (where you can fly), then please help the rest of the world benefit from this new design.
just make another shell and throw it at people to knock them down its going to get old walking around to do world quests and stuff. This is coming from someone who loves pvp btw
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
Gear scaling
In order to create a fair fights and good gameplay, our goal is to limit the extremes in power between players in War Mode that come from gear and level. We want you to have an advantage if your gear is better, but within reason. The experience should be something similar to Unrated Battlegrounds in Legion (but without the stat templates). Keep in mind this is scaling only in PvP combat, so your power against creatures in the world will remain the same as it would be with War Mode disabled.


Nice, this just makes my multiboxer friend even more unstoppable!
As a long time WPvPer, I would tend to agree that flying is a negative when in that space.

Any naturally evolving WPvP fight is trivialized with flying involved, since, sure, you fight someone and win when they're on the ground, but once they rez they'll probably just fly and get away from you, thus ceasing what would otherwise lead to, ideally, a bigger and bigger, higher stakes, emergent fight scenario.

Also, if you have a group of people on the ground, you tend to see counter groups forming up, but they're just sitting in the air for 5-10 minutes staring down at you until they can jump on top of you from above. Rather than everyone being on the ground, your scout realizes an enemy group is forming, and you can immediately engage them without everyone staring at each other 50+ yards away in the air.
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
We hope to have War Mode up very soon for everyone to try out.


Is that soon or Soon™? This is a serious question.
It's too bad people will still cruise around in a large group and faceroll everyone
04/30/2018 07:39 PMPosted by Floyln
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
We hope to have War Mode up very soon for everyone to try out.


Is that soon or Soon™? This is a serious question.


I think "soon" in the sense of 2 weeks of beta remaining.

04/30/2018 07:39 PMPosted by Necrachilles
It's too bad people will still cruise around in a large group and faceroll everyone


Make friends and your problem is solved.
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx

Honor Talents enabled
As mentioned by Ion and others, Honor Talents are on permanently while War Mode is enabled in the outdoor world. This was the case in Legion as well, but they would only enable when you got into “PvP combat” causing them to enable and disable while playing which ended up feeling a bit “janky.” Players may also find some added benefit with Honor Talents against normal PvE creatures as well, which is designed to be part of a “package of bonuses” to offset the inherit lost efficiency of World PvP.

That's really cool, but kind of bonkers.

For one, doesn't it heavily encourage keeping War Mode turned on, even if you'd rather not deal with PvP due to the immense power gains?

Second, wasn't a primary reason for avoiding tuning abilities differently in PvE and PvP concerning players finding it jarring when their abilities stop functioning the same way when moving from one to the other? With this, zoning into a dungeon or a raid will suddenly cause players to get weaker, move slower, and negatively alter their rotation.

This seems to double down on the original problem of honor talents, that specs feel more "complete" with them. I worry that making them active that much more often is the difference between something feeling like a bonus ("oh I'm in PvP, now I can do this!") to feeling like you're losing something once it's turned off ("90% of the time I'm out in the world, so I can do this, but once I zone into a dungeon, I can't anymore").
04/30/2018 07:44 PMPosted by Archimtiros
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx

Honor Talents enabled
As mentioned by Ion and others, Honor Talents are on permanently while War Mode is enabled in the outdoor world. This was the case in Legion as well, but they would only enable when you got into “PvP combat” causing them to enable and disable while playing which ended up feeling a bit “janky.” Players may also find some added benefit with Honor Talents against normal PvE creatures as well, which is designed to be part of a “package of bonuses” to offset the inherit lost efficiency of World PvP.

That's really cool, but kind of bonkers.

For one, doesn't it heavily encourage keeping War Mode turned on, even if you'd rather not deal with PvP due to the immense power gains?

Second, wasn't a primary reason for avoiding tuning abilities differently in PvE and PvP concerning players finding it jarring when their abilities stop functioning the same way when moving from one to the other? With this, zoning into a dungeon or a raid will suddenly cause players to get weaker, move slower, and negatively alter their rotation.

This seems to double down on the original problem of honor talents, that specs feel more "complete" with them. I worry that making them active that much more often is the difference between something feeling like a bonus ("oh I'm in PvP, now I can do this!") to feeling like you're losing something once it's turned off ("90% of the time I'm out in the world, so I can do this, but once I zone into a dungeon, I can't anymore").


If you want carebear, you get carebear ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Phalanx what about gear acquisition? Is it going to go back to MoP/WoD model where we can use conquest to buy a piece of gear (this includes different secondary stat gears) or will it be more Legion-esque where it is random? Currently the major issue with PvP gearing is it is all random. I may be alone in this but I hate not knowing when I can get gear and if it has the stats I want. I loved how in MoP/WoD I could use Honor Points or Conquest Points to target the piece of gear I want with the secondary stats I want. If gearing is still going to be randomized then it will be a failure in my opinion. PvPers should be able to target gear to use in WPvP or Instanced PvP.
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
When a bounty is put on you, it will be announced to all opposing players in the zone and you will appear on the main map for a reward.


And how will this work for stealth characters? Bad enough we have Demon Hunters finding us like nobodies business...
I assume if you're out of stealth, you'll be on the map, and when you're stealthed, you won't.
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
We hope to have War Mode up very soon for everyone to try out. Until then, I’ll outline a few details:

Honor Talents enabled
As mentioned by Ion and others, Honor Talents are on permanently while War Mode is enabled in the outdoor world. This was the case in Legion as well, but they would only enable when you got into “PvP combat” causing them to enable and disable while playing which ended up feeling a bit “janky.” Players may also find some added benefit with Honor Talents against normal PvE creatures as well, which is designed to be part of a “package of bonuses” to offset the inherit lost efficiency of World PvP.

Gear scaling
In order to create a fair fights and good gameplay, our goal is to limit the extremes in power between players in War Mode that come from gear and level. We want you to have an advantage if your gear is better, but within reason. The experience should be something similar to Unrated Battlegrounds in Legion (but without the stat templates). Keep in mind this is scaling only in PvP combat, so your power against creatures in the world will remain the same as it would be with War Mode disabled.

Conquest and World PvP
In Battle for Azeroth you’ll earn conquest for doing PvP activities similar to how it was gained in the past: Rated Arena and Rated Battlegrounds as well as some light conquest from Unrated Battlegrounds. But what’s new is earning conquest from doing World PvP activities. This gives you an additional source when filling up that “conquest bar” for your weekly conquest item.

Bounty Hunting
How do you earn conquest in World PvP? One source is from killing other players, of course. But the more of the opposing faction you slay, the higher chance they will put a bounty on your head. When a bounty is put on you, it will be announced to all opposing players in the zone and you will appear on the main map for a reward. Good luck!

And more...
While we have one or two other content features in War Mode we’ll share later on, one of our goals is to keep it minimal. As you point out Ion saying, we want to create a foundation first which we can hopefully build upon (with your feedback!) in the future.


Awesome stuff, love the sound of the bounty system and can’t wait to test it out!

Here’s hoping for more time based pvp objectives (similar to stv arena), something like every hour a random chest appears in a zone and it appears on the mini map, everyone has 5 or 10 minutes to get to it then the battle starts and it can be opened (doesn’t have to be ffa can be faction based and rewards go to the players in the area or something). That’s just off the top of my head but I’m sure there’s plenty more random events that you could add in to help add flavor!

Keep up the good work :)
04/30/2018 08:36 PMPosted by Bishojo
04/30/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Phalanx
When a bounty is put on you, it will be announced to all opposing players in the zone and you will appear on the main map for a reward.


And how will this work for stealth characters? Bad enough we have Demon Hunters finding us like nobodies business...


Pretty sure stealth characters will already have a huge advantage in wpvp, untrackable as well would be too strong imo.

It’s only on the minimap so it will show that you are in the area but they will still have to find you out of stealth. Yes demon hunters will be a counter but I think it’s good counters exist in the game I.e hunters counter mage, a good mate can still win but it’s an uphill battle (probably more so than dh v rogue thanks to subterfuge)
Whats to prevent someone from just hearthing and turning wpvp mode off as soon as they get marked as a bounty? Will you be unable to?

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