Brewmasters & Quality of Life

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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Given that Effuse also reduces damage by 10% at the moment, it looks like that should be part of the rotation.

I did the start scenarios on BrM. Feels aweful compared the DH, DK, Pally, and Bear I created.

Feels squishy as all get out. The others at 110 can just about solo tank normal instances. Brew can barely solo a non-elite mob.
The problem I see with Brewmaster, unlike other classes/specs currently, is that there doesn't seem to be anyone (correct me if I'm wrong) that prefers new Brewmaster over the MoP/WoD version. It's just odd to me that they want to push this version, which besides having access to keg smash and stagger, plays almost nothing like the original. There are a multitude of gameplay mechanics that I would like to see addressed.

1. Rotation is boring and non-interactive.
2. Self-sustain is bad.
3. Our Active Mitigation is not actually Active Mitigation.
4. Our utility toolkit is scarce.


I really feel like this can not be emphasized heavily enough. The devs seem obstinate in their determination (...) to continue pushing ahead with the Legion model for BrM (including things like the BoS haste scaling change that was universally panned) despite none of the community being a fan of it.

If everything has somehow magically been solidified by this point in terms of approach/philosophy, that's fine. I'm even willing to accept (as we have been forced to throughout Legion) that #3 is somehow equitable with more conventional tanks and #4 is some sort of class quirk (or compensation for the perceived power of #3), but items #1 and #2 are just problems, plain and simple. Compounding this, they are problems that were actively created (and doubled down upon) in the face of community resistance.

06/05/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Managan
I have yet to see a brewmaster sound really happy or interested in what we are for BFA. I think a lot of us feel like broken records...but what other venue is there to really voice our feelings on this? It is disheartening that we continue to get nothing at all.

Please address this.
06/07/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Tackattack
06/05/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Managan
I have yet to see a brewmaster sound really happy or interested in what we are for BFA. I think a lot of us feel like broken records...but what other venue is there to really voice our feelings on this? It is disheartening that we continue to get nothing at all.

Please address this.


It feels terrible to have to keep bringing up the same things over and over just to hope for some kind of acknowledgement. Still have my fingers crossed those rumors are true. I'm a Brewmaster at heart, I don't want to not play it.
Just finished a dungeon run on the Beta and this is true on live, that lust isn't that powerful on Legion and BfA BrM vs Mist, WoD BrM. It's sad. As well, BrM is still awful to play, seems the way of Legion will follow BfA.
Just played BrM after the update, which is no update, still awful.
I was about to make a long winded post regarding the current state of Brew, but the folks in this thread have done an excellent job of summarizing my primary concerns. Have all the upvotes.

The loss of rotational complexity, lack of cohesive theme, feeling locked into specific talent choices, and not having the mitigation/self sustain necessary for difficult 5 man content without a very specific group comp (and the fact that a strategy/strength I've used to deal with these inadequacies - kiting - is being actively discouraged by the new dungeon changes) have me extremely concerned about the future of this spec.
.Late again, but couldn't log in on us forums again

06/05/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Auntlers
There's some specifics I might disagree with on Kihra's fixes, but holy hell that would make me one happy boy.


It isn't that difficult to make brewmaster more fun. The good thing about those assumptions is that they could happen unlike complete reworks.
I'm wondering why so many players want Chi wave to be gone. This ablility could be amazing. In mop i often used it right at the start of a pull (especially big pulls in cm's), because each healing almost healed me up. It's a pure balancing issue and I will refuse to skill eye of the tiger, it's a passive with a tab mechanic.

06/06/2018 03:41 PMPosted by Auntlers
There's been a rumor on the guardian druid feedback thread that both Guardians and BrM have changes coming in "the next couple of weeks," I don't know how credible that is though.


Would be amazing, right before prepatch i guess.
Too sad already had to choose my class. However would be still cool playing brm as a twink.
I have a suggestion for making our rotation more dynamic that can be overall DPS neutral.

Tiger Palm has an X% chance (that scales up conservatively with Haste) to reset the CD of Keg Smash and make the next Keg Smash cost zero energy.

Nerf Keg Smash damage and Brew reduction from it as needed to compensate for being able to Keg Smash more often.

(1) The Breath of Fire rotational hole that would otherwise occur without taking Rushing Jade Wind goes away (as long as you get enough procs).

(2) Keg Smash lighting up will feel great to any Brewmaster. This makes the rotation dynamic and gives us something to watch for.

(3) Keg Smashes that cost energy will be spread further apart, so we'll run out of energy a little more slowly. This might devalue Black Ox Brew somewhat relative to other options, making the other talents more attractive.

(4) It adds value to Haste as a stat, which sharply drops off in DPS value once you get Keg Smash to 7ish seconds.
.Late again, but couldn't log in on us forums again

06/05/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Auntlers
There's some specifics I might disagree with on Kihra's fixes, but holy hell that would make me one happy boy.


It isn't that difficult to make brewmaster more fun. The good thing about those assumptions is that they could happen unlike complete reworks.
I'm wondering why so many players want Chi wave to be gone. This ablility could be amazing. In mop i often used it right at the start of a pull (especially big pulls in cm's), because each healing almost healed me up. It's a pure balancing issue and I will refuse to skill eye of the tiger, it's a passive with a tab mechanic.


Actually Eye of the tiger isn't even a tab mechanic. You are only able to have 1 out. If you tiger palm another target the first target loses its debuff. Its pretty bad lol.
Various things to expect next build:

New talent: Guard (replacing Elusive Dance on L100). "Guard against future attacks, causing the next X damage you Stagger to instead be prevented." 30s cooldown.
(The Guard Honor Talent will be renamed).

New talent: Spitfire (replacing Gift of the Mists on L45). "Tiger Palm has a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Breath of Fire."

Part of the value of Black Ox Brew is being moved baseline, by lengthening its cooldown to 2 minutes, and speeding up the baseline recharge time of Brews. This should help the row be more competitive, without losing total Brew charges.

Ironskin Brew's duration will come up to 7, also freeing up more Brew charges.

Blackout Combo no longer buffs Purifying Brew. This usage wound up mostly being a trap, and 4 modes still a good amount of choice for the talent.

Gift of the Ox healing increased about 30%. We expect the overall spawn rate to be lower than Legion, and this helps make up for that.

Balancing is still preliminary, but a few tweaks on that front:
HP reduced for Brewmaster by around 10%. Brewmaster's heavy resistance to killing spikes means they're not a tank that needs as high an HP pool. This does have the side effect of making Ox orbs spawn slightly more often.
Stagger's effectiveness against Magic brought back up to 35%.
Awesome! Excited to see Guard back and some dead talents replaced, as well as hopefully making Black Ox Brew non-mandatory. Some solid looking changes, fingers crossed it helps alleviate the feel of buff maintenance with only marginal interaction to the spec.

Overall I'm just happy to see some blue feedback. Very much appreciated!!

Sock eating contest on the Brew discord incoming!!
These are some serious Monk buffs. -_-
Uff, I dislike anything in the same tier row as Blackout Combo. Blackout Combo is the only interesting piece of BrM to play with, and having to drop it to gain more mitigation is just.. bleh.

Who has played their BrM in the past year without BoC? I want to like guard, but the spec feels utterly brain dead without BoC.
I agree that BoC lends weight to pressing Blackout Strike, but honestly it only tended to be used on Tiger Palm for the damage. Combo with Ironskin was very niche and rarely used so I'm ok seeing it disappear, and the only other meaty interaction is with Keg Smash.

I'm all for making Blackout Strike feel more impactful, but I think BoC is a bit overrated in it's impact. Guard will be miles ahead for survivability so it's more a matter of single target damage vs damage absorb.
wow nice
06/08/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Sigma
New talent: Guard (replacing Elusive Dance on L100). "Guard against future attacks, causing the next X damage you Stagger to instead be prevented." 30s cooldown.
(The Guard Honor Talent will be renamed).

Can High Tolerance be adjusted to provide something other than haste? Haste is not very useful to Brewmaster at the moment.

Not sure I agree with the HP reduction given the DTPS for Brewmaster is significantly higher than other tanks, even if the damage is "smoother"...

Black Ox Statue should be baseline and replaced with something else. It has very few applications as it is right now.

Chi Wave could be replaced with Stormstout's Last Gasp as a talent.

Agree with others BoC should just be baseline.. it's just too useful (and fun) a talent.

Lastly: can you please adjust the cooldown on Fort Brew? We don't have Face Palm anymore and it still has a 7 minute cooldown.

Appreciate the changes and feedback thus far.
i like that the first thing out of peoples mouth's after getting a blue post and significant changes is asking for more changes.

good work.
Thanks for a response! It's actually very nice to see. It feels like some feedback has been looked at! Is there a better way we, as a community, can better provide our thoughts?

I think most of this sounds fairly reasonable in terms of giving us some options and a bit more interesting play possibly. Though it depends on how valuable some of these choices end up being.

The idea of the talent Spitfire seems like a fun choice to an extent. Though at the moment BoF is not a very fun button to hit. It doesn't feel it really carries the power that proc based moves tend to. Is there a plan to make BoF more powerful in some way? or perhaps add something else to this talent choice?

I think BoB often provided some damage so I can understand the placement ultimately. Light Brewing being possibly worth it is welcome! Though I think it still ends up a bit lower (napkin math) in value than BoB. Which isn't inherently awful since the passive move being a bit weaker isn't a bad thing. It was just too much so before.

Guard is back and it's good to see! how good it is remains to be seen but I am very happy to see some mitigation around. I can't say how I fully feel about without numbers. Since stagger can get quite high, I hope it's fairly powerful!

Is healing meant to sort of be net neutral? I'm still a bit nervous about BrM's ability to stay afloat compared to other tanks.

Finally....Black out Combo is sort of looking weaker and weaker. Not that removing an effect is bad for it, but the other choices are much better now. Guard or HT are both very powerful theoretically. However BoC seems to lack anything but making combat feel a bit more interactive. Even then it only really feels useful to empower TP, and i'm not sure how valuable that will be without Face Palm relics. Will anything be added to it? What is the value you see it bringing over the other talents? I'm having a hard time seeing what it brings to the table, especially compared to the potential of guard or just with how good HT tends to be.
honestly im upset blizz gave into all the guard memers. I am happy for them, but still a little upset.

I'm just happy it only affects stagger dmg and not all dmg
06/08/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Sigma
New talent: Guard (replacing Elusive Dance on L100). "Guard against future attacks, causing the next X damage you Stagger to instead be prevented." 30s cooldown.
(The Guard Honor Talent will be renamed).

Can High Tolerance be adjusted to provide something other than haste? Haste is not very useful to Brewmaster at the moment.

Not sure I agree with the HP reduction given the DTPS for Brewmaster is significantly higher than other tanks, even if the damage is "smoother"...

Black Ox Statue should be baseline and replaced with something else. It has very few applications as it is right now.

Chi Wave could be replaced with Stormstout's Last Gasp as a talent.

Agree with others BoC should just be baseline.. it's just too useful (and fun) a talent.

06/08/2018 07:32 PMPosted by Sigma
New talent: Spitfire (replacing Gift of the Mists on L45). "Tiger Palm has a 25% chance to reset the cooldown of Breath of Fire."

Spitfire isn't as good as it was in Legion, because you lack the artifact trait that provides you a DR when applying Breath of Fire. It's purely a DPS talent with no defensive value, so I think the talent as you have described it is quite weak.

Lastly: can you please adjust the cooldown on Fort Brew? We don't have Face Palm anymore and it still has a 7 minute cooldown.

Appreciate the changes and feedback thus far.


BoF does have the Damage reduction baked in now. It makes targets deal 5% less damage to you if they are burning for 12seconds.

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