Guardian Druid Feedback

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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10/10/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Antaris
Being constructive with zero acknowledgement since alpha is tricky

It is and we definitely need a place to vent our frustration. What I was trying to convey is to turn that frustration into something productive that has a better chance to resonant with Blizzard, that's it.

It's tricky, it's hard to eliminate emotion and frustration. If any of my guild mates were in this thread, they'd tell you I complain damn near daily about where this spec is relative to other specs like Blood and BrM. So I'm in the thick of it too.

10/10/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Antaris
I personally feel guardian could use damn near a complete overhaul.. it was such a bare bones spec in legion and they pruned so much for bfa and just left it

It really does, no question.

I have said for a while now that the notion of stacking 3 thrashes as a means to maximize our threat/damage output is an archaic ideal that should have died expansions ago. The designers moved Warriors away from that model for a reason and it makes no sense why Guardian still exists in that era.

There has been an abundance of ideas shared in this thread by some really great and creative Guardians. Not only have some of those ideas been great, but we've also demonstrated how those ideas relate to real world bears and the synergy and fantasy that such abilities could bring to the spec as a whole.

The fact that the transition to Legion meant we gave up baseline spells in order to just have something to gain by powering up the artifact was bad design. The fact they then didn't return those baseline options to the spec when removing artifacts was nothing short of a slap to the face.

We do have some versatility left, but I do often wonder if that gets lost in translation by the designers because its effectively locked away due to forms and without having the tools to make shapeshifting really possible as a tank, we can't really take advantage of our full potential.
To add to my prior post:

I firmly believe that Guardian has lost its niche in the tank world. We no longer are the "meat shield" by any past definition. While we may have the highest AM based armor of any tank, that's really all we bring anymore.

I could see a world where Guardian druid is a true shape shift based tank. If we were to be overhauled, that might be a really neat niche. It might not fit for everyone, but it would at least provide us a very clear, unique niche.
10/10/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Antaris
Being constructive with zero acknowledgement since alpha is tricky

It is and we definitely need a place to vent our frustration. What I was trying to convey is to turn that frustration into something productive that has a better chance to resonant with Blizzard, that's it.


We were constructive, introspective, and provided a wealth of well-meaning feedback. We got ignored.

Others threw tantrums, complained, and threatened. They got feedback and improvements.

I feel like the messaging being provided on this forum hasn't been optimal.
10/10/2018 08:48 AMPosted by Kozuk
You are absolutely right, i m so frustrated with this lack of response, that makes me think they left us to rot.

That's an absolutely fair and justified feeling, no doubting that.
Guardians: Hey guys we could really use some help. We simply are not as strong as other tanks, warriors are in pretty bad shape too. What can you do to help us? We have lower threat, we soak damage well but our sustain outside of that is pretty poor. Frenzied regen doesn't feel as meaningful as it did in legion.

Blood DKs: Hey guys we can 5 man these Mythic+ dungeons as all tanks and beat timers, lawl we have amazing damage and sustain, we are literal blood gods!

Blizzard: -silence-
I'm sorry for you guys having it rough. I never did more than off tank as guardian occasionally in raids and for running guildies through numerous dungeons, my main was a feral for pve. However as someone said you should keep one thread for constructive feedback and maybe vent in a separate thread/s. Just imo, seemed to have kind of worked for ferals for what it's worth. Good luck to you!

P.S. Yes the feral thread still had occasional venting but there was a continuous flow of feedback as well.
How about this?

Remove Corruption
**Castable in all forms**

**Predatory Swiftness**
(Guardian)
Your Mangle critical strikes have a 50% chance to make your next Regrowth or Entangling Roots instant, free, and castable in all forms.

Bear Form
Armor increased by 220%.
Stamina increased by **50% (up for 45%).**
**Mouvement speed increased by 15%.**
Immune to Polymorph effects.
Guess I'll cross-post this here. In the "nerf blood" thread, people kept saying we should bring other tanks to Blood/Brewmaster levels, instead.

Here's what would be required to bring Druids up to the level of Blood in raiding and Mythic+:

*Increase damage of all abilities by 20%
*Increase health by 20%
*Restore Pawsitive Outlook
*Restore Rage of the Sleeper including Leech and immunity to loss of control
*Make Frenized Regen a reactive heal again like in Legion
*Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD
*Remove Bristling Fur from GCD
*Increase Galactic Guardian proc to 7%
*Add to Incarnation that it increases all damage by 15% while active
*Thrash slows nearby enemies
*Add Faerie Fire, which silences targets (15s cooldown)
*Make all abilities in spellbook castable in bear form
*Balance & Resto affinity abilities castable in bear form, if that talent is selected
*Primal Fury restored
*And POSSIBLY add Challenging Roar back

Do all of that, and you might just bring bear up to Blood's level.


The problem that Guardian continually has is that peoples' immediate reaction (including, presumably, Blizzard) is "that's too much". But the people in the other thread seemed to think the list was fine if that's what it takes to bring us up to par and avoiding nerfing DK & Monk tanks. And we definitely need everything on this list to bring us to par with them, assuming they don't get hit really hard by the nerf bat.

So there you have it. This still doesn't bring us to Blood's level of self-healing (especially with the longer cooldown on Frenzied Regen, which I didn't touch on my list but maybe should have). Nor does it bring us close to Monk mitigation (Stagger being a fundamentally busted mechanic). But it brings us closer to both.

(It also uses existing or prior mechanics and avoids needing a "class re-design". It's just tinkering with some stuff that should be easily doable.)
Class Changes
Threat received tooltip changes but threat bonuses will receive a change.
Blizzard detailed plans for Elemental Shaman, some of which are visible in 27826 data.
Protection Warriors will get defensive buffs.


I think this is what hurts the most imo. Shaman's have been on the forefront of almost every mentioned "Class Change" coming or spoken of by the blues and posted about. Feral's right behind in a way. Full write -ups have been dropped or things have been datamined for them already that we don't need to hear about it in another Q&A sess.

I am happy my Prot peeps out there are getting some much needed attention and getting some spotlight, good for them. But not a single mention of us anywhere, not even a shot out on the page for intended points/discussion. Seriously hoping tomorrow we get some kind of acknowledgement, from any Blue/Dev anywhere, is welcomed at this point.

(Available here for anyone who hasn't seen https://www.wowhead.com/guides/tides-of-vengeance-bfa-patch-8-1-overview )
10/10/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Tewa
Guess I'll cross-post this here. In the "nerf blood" thread, people kept saying we should bring other tanks to Blood/Brewmaster levels, instead.

Here's what would be required to bring Druids up to the level of Blood in raiding and Mythic+:

*Increase damage of all abilities by 20%
*Increase health by 20%
*Restore Pawsitive Outlook
*Restore Rage of the Sleeper including Leech and immunity to loss of control
*Make Frenized Regen a reactive heal again like in Legion
*Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD
*Remove Bristling Fur from GCD
*Increase Galactic Guardian proc to 7%
*Add to Incarnation that it increases all damage by 15% while active
*Thrash slows nearby enemies
*Add Faerie Fire, which silences targets (15s cooldown)
*Make all abilities in spellbook castable in bear form
*Balance & Resto affinity abilities castable in bear form, if that talent is selected
*Primal Fury restored
*And POSSIBLY add Challenging Roar back

Do all of that, and you might just bring bear up to Blood's level.


The problem that Guardian continually has is that peoples' immediate reaction (including, presumably, Blizzard) is "that's too much". But the people in the other thread seemed to think the list was fine if that's what it takes to bring us up to par and avoiding nerfing DK & Monk tanks. And we definitely need everything on this list to bring us to par with them, assuming they don't get hit really hard by the nerf bat.

So there you have it. This still doesn't bring us to Blood's level of self-healing (especially with the longer cooldown on Frenzied Regen, which I didn't touch on my list but maybe should have). Nor does it bring us close to Monk mitigation (Stagger being a fundamentally busted mechanic). But it brings us closer to both.

(It also uses existing or prior mechanics and avoids needing a "class re-design". It's just tinkering with some stuff that should be easily doable.)

They could baseline our entire talent tree and Bear would still not be stronger than DK/DH in M+.

I doubt it would put us to competitive levels for single target dps against the other tanks.
10/10/2018 08:21 PMPosted by Arceval
They could baseline our entire talent tree and Bear would still not be stronger than DK/DH in M+.


I disagree, I think if you had all of 15 75 90 and 100 rows guardian would be clear leader.

Getting all of the 60 row solves utility too.
10/10/2018 09:06 PMPosted by Blackstannis
I think if you had all of 15 75 90 and 100 rows guardian would be clear leader.

I think the only real talents that might raise an eyebrow here would be making Earthwarden baseline and then having access to both RnT and Pulverize.

10/10/2018 09:06 PMPosted by Blackstannis
Getting all of the 60 row solves utility too.

I disagree, particularly when so many mobs tend to be immune to stuns or dazes. That completely negates the usefulness of Mighty Bash and Typhoon.

Mass Entanglement is nice but with the fact it breaks on any damage, its super unreliable. This gets exacerbated by the fact that azerite traits that deal damage, such as dagger in back procs off some of the dumbest things, including disorients. So imagine casting mass entanglement only for it to break because dagger in back procs.

This also brings me to Intimidating Roar and Incapacitating Roar. The baseline Incap roar is helpful as an AoE interrupt of spell casters, but I've found that the talented version seems to be less reliable because it breaks much quicker than the advertised 3 seconds.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the Level 30 row needs to be overhauled and Wild Charge needs to be made baseline for Guardian druid.
10/10/2018 02:41 PMPosted by Tewa
Guess I'll cross-post this here. In the "nerf blood" thread, people kept saying we should bring other tanks to Blood/Brewmaster levels, instead.

Here's what would be required to bring Druids up to the level of Blood in raiding and Mythic+:

*Increase damage of all abilities by 20%
*Increase health by 20%
*Restore Pawsitive Outlook
*Restore Rage of the Sleeper including Leech and immunity to loss of control
*Make Frenized Regen a reactive heal again like in Legion
*Remove Frenzied Regen from GCD
*Remove Bristling Fur from GCD
*Increase Galactic Guardian proc to 7%
*Add to Incarnation that it increases all damage by 15% while active
*Thrash slows nearby enemies
*Add Faerie Fire, which silences targets (15s cooldown)
*Make all abilities in spellbook castable in bear form
*Balance & Resto affinity abilities castable in bear form, if that talent is selected
*Primal Fury restored
*And POSSIBLY add Challenging Roar back

Do all of that, and you might just bring bear up to Blood's level.


The problem that Guardian continually has is that peoples' immediate reaction (including, presumably, Blizzard) is "that's too much". But the people in the other thread seemed to think the list was fine if that's what it takes to bring us up to par and avoiding nerfing DK & Monk tanks. And we definitely need everything on this list to bring us to par with them, assuming they don't get hit really hard by the nerf bat.

So there you have it. This still doesn't bring us to Blood's level of self-healing (especially with the longer cooldown on Frenzied Regen, which I didn't touch on my list but maybe should have). Nor does it bring us close to Monk mitigation (Stagger being a fundamentally busted mechanic). But it brings us closer to both.

(It also uses existing or prior mechanics and avoids needing a "class re-design". It's just tinkering with some stuff that should be easily doable.)


Honestly we could get basically all of this and I think it would put us in a decent position. It only looks like a lot of stuff because other tanks have so, so many more tools than Guardian does.

With my "I play several tank specs" hat on, there's nothing here that would make me choose Guardian 100% of the time over my other tanks, but it would absolutely stop me from feeling like I just got nerfed hard when I switch from another tank to Druid.
I miss challenging roar, almost forgot we had that at one point. There are a number of abilities I would love to see bears get back, but I wonder if Blizzard is afraid that the delicate tank balance will be thrown askew if they do anything to improve bear performance?

I try not to be too negative, but it's been an age since Blizzard responded to guardian issues. Some form of acknowledgement would be greatly appreciated.
Are we the only spec that hasn't recieved a blue post since alpha? I'm trying to think of one.
10/11/2018 04:00 AMPosted by Duskhawk
I miss challenging roar, almost forgot we had that at one point. There are a number of abilities I would love to see bears get back, but I wonder if Blizzard is afraid that the delicate tank balance will be thrown askew if they do anything to improve bear performance?
dude, what tank balance? Long time no see guys but I kinda broke and rerolled BrM :/ still hoping for the day i can come back to my Trippy, but that day is not today. But on to my point, there is no balance dude, you know how people say BrM is king? Maybe for raids, but my 376 brew can't get into high mythic groups to save his life, and he's over 800 io. This isn't balanced at all man
Almost 900 posts and no blue response that is disappointing but not unexpected. There are many great suggestions on this thread on how to fix guardians. I guess we should keep this going but why won't a blue even respond. They can at least say we have read this and we are not or are going to do something. My guess the are just ignoring us.
I think they saw how well guardian scaled in legion and were afraid that might happen again so they overnerfed us going into bfa. We should have higher health right now, and I think mastery should scale a little better.

We definitely need our snare back on thrash, because not only are we the only tank without one, but we basically cant tank mythic plus dungeons without a frost mage to snare for us.

We also need berserk back, since burst threat is an issue and also initial threat on a pull. Guardian currently puts out the lowest threat of any tanks and at times it can be an issue.

Its commonly discussed that guardian is s very boring spec, both rotationally and overall kit wise. I think a big help for this would be to make pulverize baseline, Galactic guardian baseline, or both.
ION said Guardian Druids!!!! VALIDATION! xD
10/11/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Dyzfunktion
ION said Guardian Druids!!!! VALIDATION! xD


we weren't forgotten!

just ignored ;.;

Edit: We also apparently have ironskin

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