Guardian Druid Feedback

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Just came back to playing Guardian druid since Legion release. In order of importance.....

1) Need slow back on thrash, being the only tank without a slow is ridiculous in M+.

2) Rage of the Sleeper back or Berserk back would be a welcome addition

3) Bear traits need a good strong look at them, most are incredibly ineffective in ALL situations damage or survival.

4) Wild charge or at least hte bear form version of it should be baseline. Warrior charge is... and while the specs should be different, having a tank that cant go cat form, has to take ursols for a fight, basically means we are the actual least mobile class in the game as a tank...

These changes wouldnt make the spec interesting or really fun but it would make them able to to be used for the long-time bear players like me that love the spec for how it was in BC.

What would make it fun, promote the fluidity of druid, Give a CD that makes it so we have all affinities for 30 seconds, give us back tranq ( a weaker version). Make it so druid players feel like druids shifting into all their different forms to be useful to the raid.
Sigh..

I already unsubbed and it's a shame because blizzard doesn't want to listen to feedback when given.
3 changes for PTR. More needed changes. Post over 1000 messages long and still not 1 blue response......
Thrash snare.

Rage of the Sleeper.

Bigger aura buff than the one already on PTR.

Wild Charge baseline.

And some kind of additional utility that even slightly approaches the dungeon utility of Blood's grip/mass grip combo, Vengeance's silence sigil, chains sigil, versatile CC and extreme mobility, Brew's Ring of Peace, versatile CC and high mobility, Protection Paladin's constant silences and versatile CC, and Protection Warrior's... uh, never mind about Warriors. Currently we're a big slow bag of meat who can occasionally sneeze stuff to move it (and we give up our only stun to do so).

Death Knights got our battle rez and can make themselves immune to knockback (taken away from us in BFA) in addition to the vast amount of mob control they have. We need something of comparable power and versatility to grip or a short CD ranged silence (bring back Faerie Fire!) or we just can't compete.
10/31/2018 07:19 AMPosted by Caféaulait
Sigh..

I already unsubbed and it's a shame because blizzard doesn't want to listen to feedback when given.


I've unsubbed as well. My impression from viewing the forums, wow Reddit, and my guild & friends is that Blizz needs to pull off 8.1 correct to fix their failures in BfA launch or this xpac has failed. The most baffling thing is their failure to do some community outreach/ damage control in threads like these to reassure the community that the feedback is being heard.

I had assumed we wouldn't hear any substantive blue posts this week due to Blizzcon, but to then read the general Blue post that Blizzcon really wont discuss 8.1 at all, but instead focus on damage control with "future hype". None of that really matters if they continue to fail at basic class design and balance. I can't think 8.1 is anywhere near ready given the lack of addressing the numerous class/spec failings and if it is, whoa boy are they tone-deaf.
I barely play my druid anymore, I just do one key for a chest, and any azerite emissaries if they pop up.

I've been playing this paladin for about a week and prot just feels so much better to play. Burst damage cooldown, cleanse and heals usable while tanking, aoe snare, self sustain.. it's also fun.

Although paladins have been pruned too since the last time i played mine, so who knows how long this will keep me interested.

Hopefully blizzard gets their act together and adds some fun gameplay back to all the pruned specs. More baseline abilities, and more fun and cool talents.
We need the following

-Wild Charge baseline
-Give us mass root for 5 seconds thats not breakable by damage. This will help in dungeons.
-damage increase
I just noticed that this post has been posting good Bear dialogue for over a thousand posts now. GJ Blizzard with ignoring your players providing constructive feedback. GG WP.
they are probably too busy getting booed by the audience.
- mobile phone game
- re-release warcraft 3
- re-release classic wow

well done blizzard! I can hear all the players re-subbing as we speak!
11/02/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Providence
I barely play my druid anymore, I just do one key for a chest, and any azerite emissaries if they pop up.

I've been playing this paladin for about a week and prot just feels so much better to play. Burst damage cooldown, cleanse and heals usable while tanking, aoe snare, self sustain.. it's also fun.

Although paladins have been pruned too since the last time i played mine, so who knows how long this will keep me interested.

Hopefully blizzard gets their act together and adds some fun gameplay back to all the pruned specs. More baseline abilities, and more fun and cool talents.


100% on the same boat with you.

I got my AOTC on my Guardian but I've since switched over and it's like.. Night and day different. Sad as heck, honestly, because I love my bear, it just doesn't feel like I contribute to anything.
11/02/2018 11:57 AMPosted by Repsyclops
We need the following
-Wild Charge baseline
-Give us mass root for 5 seconds thats not breakable by damage. This will help in dungeons.
-damage increase
While this will certainly help, the reality is that it just is not anywhere close to sufficient to allow Guardian to a competitive tank in the Mythic+ end-game space.

We also require:

- Snare applied via Thrash
- Rage of the Sleeper or equivalent offensive/defensive ability
- Frenzied Regeneration actually feel rewarding rather than being an empty GCD
- Worthwhile Guardian azerite traits
- Potentially a buff to Ironfur - less rage reqd, longer duration, or more armor

I've come to the conclusion that doing Mythic+ on the Guardian is just a complete chore, it lacks any fun, and only hinders the group. I can easily complete M10 keys on my Brewmaster who is 10 items below my Guardian without a single issue, but replace the Monk with a Guardian and its just a complete nightmare.
11/05/2018 08:11 PMPosted by Naros
While this will certainly help, the reality is that it just is not anywhere close to sufficient to allow Guardian to a competitive tank in the Mythic+ end-game space.

We also require:

- Snare applied via Thrash
- Rage of the Sleeper or equivalent offensive/defensive ability
- Frenzied Regeneration actually feel rewarding rather than being an empty GCD
- Worthwhile Guardian azerite traits
- Potentially a buff to Ironfur - less rage reqd, longer duration, or more armor

I've come to the conclusion that doing Mythic+ on the Guardian is just a complete chore, it lacks any fun, and only hinders the group. I can easily complete M10 keys on my Brewmaster who is 10 items below my Guardian without a single issue, but replace the Monk with a Guardian and its just a complete nightmare.


I would agree to these also, maybe not all of them if we had to play the "bargaining" chip with the Devs.

A slow is most definite, running Tol Dag this evening with some guildies and I had to rely on my Hunt/Mage/Dk's to yank or stop/slow the humunoids from fleeing because I was unable to slow them on my home.

Rage is feel could be negotiated with for a simple dmg buff. Even playing with some high burst deeps in our groups, loosing aggro isn't something I have had much struggle with. Mostly anytime I lose a mob is when it's their mechanic to charge off, and I can yank em right back.

We've been saying it forever it feels like, but FR does need to be changed, whether GCD removal, or buff'd to feel better, but it's doable for the time.

Traits I feel like they can just shove up their blue butts. As bears we did fine before they came along, and can do fine with !@#$e ones. Having some would definitely add to our QOL and performance, but i'd settle for better class fantasy/rotation fixes before a trait fix/rework.

IF, not quite sure what i'd like more, longer dur or less cost, either imo would be sufficient to kind of streamline and benefit it's uses more.

I just wish we'd get more out of the Dev's than a dmg buff and 3 sec mention during Q&A's...

(BTW, where's our bear facts guy? I love reading those xD)
11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
I would agree to these also, maybe not all of them if we had to play the "bargaining" chip with the Devs.
We should not have to bargain for what the spec truly needs.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
A slow is most definite
What I find more annoying that the mobs that run in Tol Dagor is actually the 2nd boss in Siege. I can tank on my Monk or Death Knight, she never jumps because she's snared. As soon as I tank her on the Guardian druid, she's bouncing all over the place; its just absolutely absurd that every tank has this feature but bears.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
Rage is feel could be negotiated with for a simple dmg buff. Even playing with some high burst deeps in our groups, loosing aggro isn't something I have had much struggle with. Mostly anytime I lose a mob is when it's their mechanic to charge off, and I can yank em right back.
Rage of the Sleeper wasn't just viable as a damage buff, but it also served as a defensive option in cases where you needed an extra "oh crap" button to give your healer an extra few seconds before we fall over.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
We've been saying it forever it feels like, but FR does need to be changed, whether GCD removal, or buff'd to feel better, but it's doable for the time.
The problem with FR is the fact its a HoT that typically gets cancelled out by incoming damage, so using a GCD to hit it feels completely unrewarding. In Legion, the fact it scales with damage taken negated the fact it was a HoT, you actually felt it when being used, unlike now.

I believe if the developers want to keep FR as a flat-percentage HoT, it should be buffed substantially so that when used in high-burst windows, it actually is a rewarding button you pressed.

If I had my way with FR, I'd revert to the Legion equivalent. The main reason is that it wasn't too over-powered in trivial content since its potency was directly proportional to the damage taken and actually was a rewarding button press when dealing with far less trivial content.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
As bears we did fine before they came along, and can do fine with !@#$e ones. Having some would definitely add to our QOL and performance, but i'd settle for better class fantasy/rotation fixes before a trait fix/rework.

But again I feel like that's just being complacent and giving the developers an out, which frankly they don't deserve with where we are. We shouldn't have to pick between class fantasy/rotation fixes and trait QoL improvements. We should get both, no question.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
IF, not quite sure what i'd like more, longer dur or less cost, either imo would be sufficient to kind of streamline and benefit it's uses more.

Another idea might be to improve the rage generation for Guardian so that we have more rage to work with and activating more Ironfur stacks. I really dislike the idea that I need to spec into certain talents to get that effect which often directly goes against the talent choices I need in the first place.

11/05/2018 08:39 PMPosted by Dyzfunktion
I just wish we'd get more out of the Dev's

I do too.

I'm a 13 year veteran player with over 11 years as a Guardian druid and this is the first expansion where my subscription hangs in the balance all because of class balance. I love playing my bear, its been my main for years.

Right now this game is a double-edged sword for me.

It's the first time where I would rather play anything but my bear for how poorly it plays in things like M+ but I'd rather not play this game at all than be forced into playing something I don't prefer to play in the first place.

Either 8.1 delivers or I'm afraid its time to move on.
^ Agree with everything Naros said.

We shouldn't have to "settle" for a bad character because Blizzard is playing some bizarro zero-sum negotiation game with class design, where they have only so many grapes to pass out to everyones' baskets and we have to negotiate for our cooldowns so that they have grapes to give to the Elemental Shamans or whatever.

The entire thing is just insane.
And I want to say again how angry I am that Intimidating Roar is being removed.

I was running M+'s tonight (12 Waycrest and 10 Boralus) and I rely on this spell to save my neck. Kept thinking all night about how M+ is going to be even worse after it's removed.

I use Intimidating Roar to stop incoming damage for 2 seconds so my healer can catch up.
I use Intimidating Roar to stop spellcasting. Including some non-interruptable spells.
Ursol's Vortex isn't going to do any of that. All Ursol's does is stop things like Ghuun parasites from running away but Intimidating Roar already does that, too.

I really feel like we're getting nerfed (AGAIN) in 8.1. Not buffed.
- 20% damage increase (not 12%) to make us middle of the pack according to wclogs, but like actually still lower because the top druids are using feral affinity to cat dps half the fight.

- 5 rage off ironfur cost

- Slow on Trash returned

- RoTS returned

I feel like this would fix sooo many of the bear issues. The lower utility is already being fixed with the stamp roar fix so thank you for that. We will still be weaker in M+ but thats okay.
11/06/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Faildead
The lower utility is already being fixed with the stamp roar fix so thank you for that.

The reduction is nice; however, I don't feel that addresses our lack of utility. There is still a laundry list of abilities that we should be able to cast while in bear form but simply are not such as Remove Corruption, Entangling Roots, etc.

By having access to simply Remove Corruption and Entangling Roots while in bear would open the door allowing us to help cleanse curses and poisons while tanking, something that Paladins and Monks can already do themselves.

By having access to Entangling Roots, that opens the door allowing us to have access to a CC, something that Demon Hunters and Monks can already do themselves.

11/06/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Faildead
We will still be weaker in M+ but thats okay.

I'm sorry, but it isn't acceptable.

In a raid environment, we can get by being weaker at certain things than others for the sole reason that your raid has access to 2 tank classes. If your spec is not the best at handling mechanic X and your co-tank is, then your co-tank gets that job. If neither of you are the best at it, you can easily compensate with an extra healer.

But in M+, there is a limited number of spots, 1 tank and 1 healer. It's one thing to do slightly less damage but you can compensate by bringing certain damage class to compensate, but that's literally about all one can cave upon.

All tank classes should be able to deal with all mechanics in a satisfying, rewarding, and fun way. Right now that isn't the case. There are mechanics that some tanks can trivialize while others struggle or out right fail at. Some tanks have access to loads of utility and sustain while others have none of that.

I'm not saying homogenization needs to be the answer, but if content is being designed to be competitive and yet accessible to all specs, then Blizzard needs to check its designs before releasing them.

What I mean is ...

either their class design team needs to do a much better job at making sure that all specs of a role, especially tanks and healers, have access to toolkits to deal with encounter mechanics equally

OR

their encounter design team needs to revisit how dungeon content is being made because so far it favors a small subset of specs and none of the rest get an opportunity to shine because none of their strengths have a point where they're actually useful.
Today marks 6 months since the start of this thread, 6 months of great ideas, 6 months to save the spec, 6 months of silence in return.
I heard someone was missing their bear facts, so I have returned!

Regarding our lvl 30 talent choices.

I can definitely see where Tewa is coming from with regards to the frustration over losing Intimidating roar as an option. Yes Incapacitating roar does still accomplish many of the same things (AoE interrupt, giving healers a quick breather etc), but it’s less effective in many of those situations, and to bears who are used to taking Intimidating roar this patch can definitely feel like a nerf.

While Ursol’s Vortex and Wild Charge off the GCD definitely are good additions to the spec, (and there are good arguments on both sides as to whether the changes to this talent row are a Net-Gain or Net-Loss for bears) we cannot deny that this is still another case of Bears losing something.

Yes we are gaining something in return, but frankly we need to have much larger net-gains if we are going to be viable in future BFA tiers .

Part of me wants to suggest that Blizzard keep intimidating roar as an option and have Ursol’s vortex replace Tiger Dash. (Personally I don’t view the massive movespeed as worth it when I have to lose most of my tankiness)... but then it’s just another case of Bear’s losing some utility to gain another utility.

Basically, Bears need utility added BASELINE, not just in talents.

The real frustrating part is that we are asking for Utility that all other tanks have baseline
-AoE Slow
-ability to use our utility without losing our tankiness

Basically, while 8.1 might seem like a step in the right direction, it's such a small step that it doesn't really do much to help our current situation in the WoW Tank Meta.

Bear trivia:
The bile from a Bear’s gallbladder is extremely valuable in many parts of the world. In Hong Kong, legally sold Bear Gallbladders can cost anywhere from $30,000 to $50,000 per kilogram. (To put that in perspective, that is around the same value of Gold, which goes for around $39,000 per kilogram)

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