We do not "steal" trial loot

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05/05/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Spotti
Yes, could you take the rest of my post a bit more seriously since people seem to be veering into some silly comparisons.

Again, I'm all for sticking with how things are and not removing ML but when I read someone mentioning verbally abusing someone and that they can, it seemed to be going into the wrong direction ><! /just saying.


I feel like you're misunderstanding here. My point is that just because you CAN abuse a system to do something wrong, does not mean the entire system is inherently bad and should be removed.
05/05/2018 02:53 AMPosted by Rydanis
you can't say that there has never been a guild to abuse their system, or that there have never been trials purposefully taken advantage of.


You can never say never. Agreed.

That being said - I find it hard to beleive a guild like this would be able to stick around for a "long" time.

Recruitment would suffer and they would eventually hemorrhage players until disband.
05/05/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Singularis
05/05/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Spotti
Yes, could you take the rest of my post a bit more seriously since people seem to be veering into some silly comparisons.

Again, I'm all for sticking with how things are and not removing ML but when I read someone mentioning verbally abusing someone and that they can, it seemed to be going into the wrong direction ><! /just saying.


I feel like you're misunderstanding here. My point is that just because you CAN abuse a system to do something wrong, does not mean the entire system is inherently bad and should be removed.


And I think you misunderstood what i said , even if it was very clear...

I am not arguing anything, I said I want ML to stay... it gives Guilds options. I've regurgitated that a thousand times that it's becoming nauseating.

I just said that people shouldn't be using such thing as verbally abusing someone as a comparison to abusing ML. It's not a productive counterpoint to build your argument around. It's a tad unnecessary to use to be honest. But please,

Do continue.
Its worth mentioning that your getting a minor inconvenience, and in exchange major injustices are being corrected. In the view of the majority, this is an acceptable price to pay.
05/05/2018 09:41 PMPosted by Spotti
I just said that people shouldn't be using such thing as verbally abusing someone as a comparison to abusing ML. It's not a productive counterpoint to build your argument around. It's a tad unnecessary to use to be honest. But please,


The chat is a system that players use well every day. They can use it to communicate effectively, deliver information, assistance and advice.
It can also be used to abuse other players and spout profanities.
If this behaviour were to continue, the player would be muted/banned very soon.

Master loot is a system that players use well every day. They can use it effectively gear up the players that need the gear the most in a mythic raid setting, funnel tier to get set bonuses faster and ensure that dps or healing checks are met on upcoming bosses.
It can also be used to funnel gear to an inner circle, or friends of the loot master. If this behaviour were to continue the guild would fall apart very soon.

See the comparison?
05/05/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Lohannes
Its worth mentioning that your getting a minor inconvenience, and in exchange major injustices are being corrected. In the view of the majority, this is an acceptable price to pay.


That's your perspective though. A perspective that doesn't have the experience in a raid that progresses through tough content.

You see it as a minor inconvenience, but for a lot of guilds, it's a major inconvenience as they can't distribute loot to best benefit the raid's progression. They're going to have to rely on RNG more so than before, they won't be able to trade loot when it's soulbound even if it's not the best item for that one raider despite it being BiS for another.
05/05/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Lohannes
Its worth mentioning that your getting a minor inconvenience, and in exchange major injustices are being corrected. In the view of the majority, this is an acceptable price to pay.


LFR hero number 10 thousand trying to spout wisdom lol
05/05/2018 09:33 PMPosted by Lohannes
05/05/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Singularis
...

Just because very few, bad guilds abuse ML does not mean an effective system that so many of us use should be removed.
None of this has anything to do with Blizzards reasons for getting rid of ML, they did it to slow progression down. But for many people, the fact that corrupt guilds are being regulated more, its a significant plus.


They can slow progression down in other ways, stop spreading misinformation. No one ever said this.
05/05/2018 09:50 PMPosted by Singularis
05/05/2018 09:41 PMPosted by Spotti
I just said that people shouldn't be using such thing as verbally abusing someone as a comparison to abusing ML. It's not a productive counterpoint to build your argument around. It's a tad unnecessary to use to be honest. But please,


The chat is a system that players use well every day. They can use it to communicate effectively, deliver information, assistance and advice.
It can also be used to abuse other players and spout profanities.
If this behaviour were to continue, the player would be muted/banned very soon.

Master loot is a system that players use well every day. They can use it effectively gear up the players that need the gear the most in a mythic raid setting, funnel tier to get set bonuses faster and ensure that dps or healing checks are met on upcoming bosses.
It can also be used to funnel gear to an inner circle, or friends of the loot master. If this behaviour were to continue the guild would fall apart very soon.

See the comparison?


I see the comparison, again, I saw it without the explanation so while it's nice of you, was unnecessary. Just as unnecessary as the comparison that was made but at this point who am I to say since I am not arguing for or against, nor was I arguing about the comparison you made to the whole ' verbally abusing people ' comment.

I just wanted to point out it's really an ''unnecessary'' comparison to make.

Keeping the discussion on LOOT is more productive then veering off onto tangents that are a whole different problem on it's own.

Chat abuse, people getting verbally abused, do not equate to ML abuse. Nor is the comparison a healthy one to continue said debate if YOU people want to argue for keeping Master Loot.
05/05/2018 10:00 PMPosted by Demo


They can slow progression down in other ways, stop spreading misinformation. No one ever said this.


No one has to say it, it's common sense. PL works on RNG, get unlucky and your core team goes another while before they get what they need to progress Mythic. Master Loot provided a more efficient and more quicker way of gearing things so essentially, you are getting slowed down.
05/05/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Spotti
05/05/2018 10:00 PMPosted by Demo


They can slow progression down in other ways, stop spreading misinformation. No one ever said this.


No one has to say it, it's common sense. PL works on RNG, get unlucky and your core team goes another while before they get what they need to progress Mythic. Master Loot provided a more efficient and more quicker way of gearing things so essentially, you are getting slowed down.


It slows down gearing initially, after months it leads to more gear.

Also wrong common sense leads to believing that ML automatically leads to better gear. It only leads to better itemization, and if Blizzard does what they said that higher ilvl should always be an upgrade, personal will actually lead to more gear. (Because personal loot drops roughly 25% more loot)

But claiming it as THE REASON that ML is going away is ignorant and just a flat out lie.
Imagine mythic guilds having to recruit even more because they're getting members poached from not only class, skill, and role, but also because they were lucky enough to have randomly won the best X trinket available

Imagine guilds trying to have old friends who come back to the game that every raider knows and loves, but you can't funnel them loot as quickly as you used to because now that's all left to chance

Imagine being so incredibly unlucky with loot drops that you can't do current content, so your guild sits you over someone else who simply was just luckier.

This is going to be fun.
05/05/2018 04:15 AMPosted by Singularis
Then this shouldn't affect you in the slightest bit.
Why are you complaining about it? Everyone will still get getting their share of your success.


Because personal loot is in every way, objectively worse than master loot for gearing in a progression raiding environment.

I understand that success to you means picking up gear and boosting the magic item level number, but to mythic raiders success isn't achieved until the next boss is dead.


This...Killing Mythic Mannoroth/Archimonde in HFC and Mythic Argus in Antorus were 1000x more rewarding than any piece of gear could be and we locked out on Argus for like 7 weeks (8 hour a week raiding guild)
05/05/2018 10:12 PMPosted by Demo
05/05/2018 10:08 PMPosted by Spotti
...

No one has to say it, it's common sense. PL works on RNG, get unlucky and your core team goes another while before they get what they need to progress Mythic. Master Loot provided a more efficient and more quicker way of gearing things so essentially, you are getting slowed down.


It slows down gearing initially, after months it leads to more gear.

But claiming it as THE REASON that ML is going away is ignorant and just a flat out lie.


I agree, just the by product of said change. To be honest it wouldn't too crazy to wager a guess that they do want to slow down consumption of their content. But that could very well just be on the list of things for reasons for this change since I don't think people got the full answer, just a PR-type answer.
Issues have been going on for years, here is one post 2 years ago stating how there is 12 posts a day or more on forums every day about getting robbed with master loot.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/16718592106

To you it means nothing and it never happens... but to some (that don't just sit there and deny facts) it is proof of thieving.

No matter how many posts and how many people you get to try to trick Blizz into keeping it, i highly doubt ML is staying. You are wasting your time.
05/05/2018 10:19 PMPosted by Perky
Imagine being so incredibly unlucky with loot drops that you can't do current content, so your guild sits you over someone else who simply was just luckier.

If my luck stays the same this is gonna be me. It took me so long to get 4 piece and a scourge wing running LFR, Normal, and Heroic every week.
Issues have been going on for years, here is one post 2 years ago stating how there is 12 posts a day or more on forums about getting robbed with master loot.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/16718592106

To you it means nothing and it never happens... but to some (that don't just sit there and deny facts) it is proof of thieving.


And even in that thread, on the first page, people are telling the OP and others who have such concerns to run with PL groups.

The advice to counter it has been around for years, ever since Personal Loot came into the game. Players could have always taken action to avoid it, shown more care and caution with the groups they're joining; you know, shoulder some sense of responsibility.
05/05/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Solarslam
ssues have been going on for years, here is one post 2 years ago


Someone using hyperbole without showing facts yea? Also you can't use masterloot in pugs anymore so that issue now cannot happen, even back then if you joined a mloot group run by people you have no idea who they are its sorta your own fault.
05/05/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Solarslam
Issues have been going on for years, here is one post 2 years ago stating how there is 12 posts a day or more on forums every day about getting robbed with master loot.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/16718592106

To you it means nothing and it never happens... but to some (that don't just sit there and deny facts) it is proof of thieving.

No matter how many posts and how many people you get to try to trick Blizz into keeping it, i highly doubt ML is staying. You are wasting your time.
That was already addressed as PL is forced in PuG groups. Doesn't apply to the current situation.

It's one thing to "steal" from strangers, it's another thing to "steal" from potential guild mates. While both are of terrible things to do, they are apples to oranges.
Cant believe I read that.

And I cant believe I have to share this game with people like you.

#makewowsingleplayer

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