Silverknight's thoughts on the Mythic+ system

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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In regard to tanks and healers. First ya it’s a bit concerning when tanks out heal the main healer. Though I’m not against it. What sucks is HOW HARD the healing job is. AND how hard it is for some healers to heal as well as other healing classes. Healing in m+ is an extremely hard job. Made harder by inconsiderate tanks, and dps. So around what could be made better not sure, maybe a system that makes sure everyone is appropriate skilled and geared for the run. And has a good professionalism score(not sure how blizzard might do this last part but it’s needed)
That post was "vague". The sarcasm from the other guy earlier was "vague". A bunch of other posts I made earlier were "vague". Everything will look vague to a dumb person.

More specifically, there's no point in fixing a problem that is only created by the noobs of this game. It's like this for every competitive game. Once in a while, the devs will throw a bone to the noobs if the outcry is loud enough - it still doesn't mean that decision made the game more balanced, all it means is the devs kept people happy even if its under a false pretense.

And I noticed your posts are getting shorter and shorter. I guess you found out the only credible person on your side wasn't actually ever on your side to begin with and therefore lost a lot of confidence.


I never said his post was vague, you however have been making stupid comments like "that's playing to lose, instead of playing to win!" stick that on a poster in your room I guess.

My posts are getting shorter because we're never going to agree. You're completely against giving Brezes to other classes, I can't convince you otherwise. You want to remain one of the few god classes in this game and will apparently only accept change if it satisfies your arbitrary level of uniqueness.
05/27/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Silverknight
I never said his post was vague, you however have been making stupid comments like "that's playing to lose, instead of playing to win!" stick that on a poster in your room I guess.
It's called playing NOT to lose... like seriously open your eyes and learn how to read. This is a very common phrase. It's a loser's mentality. It's a mentality where you expect to fk up instead of just playing better. Take you for example. Instead of whining about brez, why don't you put sac on your actionbar to prevent the need of a brez in the first place? I know you don't have it on there because I looked over your m+ logs. Out of all of them you casted sac 0 times. A broken, overpowered external and the paladin doesn't use it at all and instead runs to the forums and lies how he can't do anything about helping his party. You claim you got nothing to do with your mana and yet I see so many times where you actually do run out of mana, but it's because half your healing is overhealing from direct targets you FoL on. I don't think you even have holy shock on your actionbar because you're spamming the ever living fk out of FoL instead when shock is right there off cd. Almost half your direct healing is targeting directly at beaconed targets.. it's like you don't even know what your spells do. So again why should blizzard toss brezzes out to a few more classes to help with YOUR fk ups? Why is that this so called warlock who you have such a low opinion on knows your own spec better than you?

05/27/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Silverknight
My posts are getting shorter because we're never going to agree. You're completely against giving Brezes to other classes, I can't convince you otherwise. You want to remain one of the few god classes in this game and will apparently only accept change if it satisfies your arbitrary level of uniqueness.
I explicitly said I didn't come here to be swayed by bad players. A very long time ago. So that can't possibly be the reason you stuck around so long. The fact of the matter is: you're starting to slip out of the thread because you managed to convince no one who is worth any salt. Even people who play struggling specs told you this brez idea is stupid af.
It's called playing NOT to lose... like seriously open your eyes and learn how to read. This is a very common phrase. It's a loser's mentality. It's a mentality where you expect to fk up instead of just playing better. Take you for example. Instead of whining about brez, why don't you put sac on your actionbar to prevent the need of a brez in the first place? I know you don't have it on there because I looked over your m+ logs. Out of all of them you casted sac 0 times. A broken, overpowered external and the paladin doesn't use it at all and instead runs to the forums and lies how he can't do anything about helping his party. You claim you got nothing to do with your mana and yet I see so many times where you actually do run out of mana, but it's because half your healing is overhealing from direct targets you FoL on. I don't think you even have holy shock on your actionbar because you're spamming the ever living fk out of FoL instead when shock is right there off cd. Almost half your direct healing is targeting directly at beaconed targets.. it's like you don't even know what your spells do. So again why should blizzard toss brezzes out to a few more classes to help with YOUR fk ups? Why is that this so called warlock who you have such a low opinion on knows your own spec better than you?


Relax, I'm aware I forgot the word "not" in my quote and I'm aware it means you don't want to plan on making mistakes going in. Any reasonable player wants a contingency plan for when someone inevitably makes a mistake. Couple this with the fact that boss health gets so high that losing a DPS without a rez can rip a key pretty easily.

I cast sac plenty, I normally save it for when a tank calls for it, or a dps if they're getting focused. 9/10 times someone dies because they made a mistake, and sac wasn't going to save them, even if I'd have known they were going to make a mistake. I use holy shock all the time so I have no idea what you're looking at. I hardly ever run oom so again I have no idea where you're getting this from.

05/27/2018 04:09 PMPosted by Bwuahahahaha

I explicitly said I didn't come here to be swayed by bad players. A very long time ago. So that can't possibly be the reason you stuck around so long. The fact of the matter is: you're starting to slip out of the thread because you managed to convince no one who is worth any salt. Even people who play struggling specs told you this brez idea is stupid af.


I'm here because I'm defending my stance, I don't care if you're not "here to be swayed". I'm simply making some statements and giving support for my argument, you're the lunatic who keeps attacking me personally like I'm trying to ruin your class or the game in general. Instead of responding with anything meaningful, you report to looking at logs to just attack the messenger instead of the message.

Your acting like 30 people have come in and voiced their opinion, only a hand full have, unfortunately. If a couple people "worth their salt" in your eyes supported my idea, would that change your mind? This is why it isn't worth discussing, you have your opinion and it's not worth my effort to discuss this with you for 2 more pages.
Drop the act already. Your logs.show.everything. You're bad.

And there's no such thing as "if" you could convince those sort of people. I already knew the answers to this brez "problem" before I came into this thread. My friends list is capped full of 5-6k players. Not a single one of them views brezzes with such retarded notions, it's that 1 sided. But yes, "if" you somehow manage to convince someone as such, then it would at least get my attention because whatever reason you gave must've been actually good. The reasons you gave were not good.

And let's stop playing as the poor messenger. The very fist post I made here was brushed aside because I'm not a healer. The next few posts were brushed aside because I'm a warlock. You called this a debate but you chose to hear only what you wanted to hear, at least I was honest and straight up admitted I didn't come here to debate anything. If you call yourself a so called messenger, you were a pretty sh**ty one from the start. You had all of pages 1-5. I only started critiquing your horrendous healing on page 6 so let's not pretend like you've been "personally" attacked the entire time, yea? And even then this critiquing isn't entirely pointless. You actually are a bad healer who's trying to salvage himself with brezzes, that's a large part why you think brez is so important. There's hardly any other explanation as to why you're so addicted to brez. The people you play with also do stupid sh**, hence they want brez to fix their bad play. In higher m+ keys people normally use brezzes to intentionally sacrifice players due to lack of other utility to cheese mechanics. In lower m+, it looks to me like people want brezzes because they're too autistic to move out of fire.
referring to yourself in third person is the most egotistical thing you can do
Drop the act already. Your logs.show.everything. You're bad.

I already knew the answers to this brez "problem" before I came into this thread. My friends list is capped full of 5-6k players. Not a single one of them views brezzes with such retarded notions, it's that 1 sided. But yes, "if" you somehow manage to convince someone as such, then it would at least get my attention because whatever reason you gave must've been actually good. The reasons you gave were not good.

I only started critiquing your horrendous healing on page 6 so let's not pretend like you've been "personally" attacked the entire time, yea? And even then this critiquing isn't entirely pointless. You actually are a bad healer who's trying to salvage himself with brezzes, that's a large part why you think brez is so important. There's hardly any other explanation as to why you're so addicted to brez. The people you play with also do stupid sh**, hence they want brez to fix their bad play. In higher m+ keys people normally use brezzes to intentionally sacrifice players due to lack of other utility to cheese mechanics. In lower m+, it looks to me like people want brezzes because they're too autistic to move out of fire.


Yeah, this is just more of the same. You're just making stuff up and arguing against points I'm not even making. I don't *need* more Brezes because I currently find players that have them, same as 95% of groups that pug. I get it, you think you and your friends are wow-gods and anyone not rated 6k who may die occasionally are scrubs. Wow, haven't heard this on the internet before. You started talking #&$# about me on page 3. My friends have different views than yours, and apparently a hand full of designers do too considering it looks like an engineering rez is getting added.

My point from the start wasn't to get Brezes (for struggling classes) so that I could time more keys, it's so I could include more people in my keys.
I think that 2k is pretty solid for most players and that 3-4K is where the very top folks reside at. The gods are around 5k but they can get arrogant.
05/28/2018 08:14 AMPosted by Silverknight
My point from the start wasn't to get Brezes (for struggling classes) so that I could time more keys, it's so I could include more people in my keys.
Then invite those people into your keys jfc. There is nothing in this game stopping you from inviting 3 shadow priests and a warrior (or whatever other comp for that matter) into 1 party. You said you didn't want brezes to time keys, so whats the problem? Your friends oppose otherwise? Surely there must be -some- reason why you won't run with such a comp but since you said it wasn't to time keys, there must be some magical barrier stopping you from clicking "activate" on keys when there's no brez in your party. Like right before you click activate on the key, god himself gives you a seizure to stop you from your misdeeds and tells you brez has to there. What's worse is that I even played with some of the people you played with because they ended up transferring to horde and none of them had this backward attitude on brezzes, so I can't even say your friends (or.. former friends) even believe in the same sh** you do.

And that stuff wasn't personal attacks on page 3. It's more like I'm calling out autistic monkeys who run their mouth off with some of the dumbest and uninformed posts I've ever seen, regardless I don't know why you care because I still bothered to write a reply of substance otherwise.

Yea the devs might go through with their engi brez item. But like I said they're just throwing a bone to the noobs, it doesn't really fix anything other than a perceived problem that the noobs come up with. Just like how people thought implementing brez charges would do anything but o wait... the same ultra meta classes are being invited anyway and in fact warlocks got a buff from that change.
05/28/2018 09:32 AMPosted by Bwuahahahaha
Then invite those people into your keys jfc. There is nothing in this game stopping you from inviting 3 shadow priests and a warrior (or whatever other comp for that matter) into 1 party. You said you didn't want brezes to time keys, so whats the problem? Your friends oppose otherwise?


Yes, most people don't want to run high keys without a battle rez, often two. That includes a number of my friends, and plenty of pugs. I don't take this game as seriously as many people, like you for instance. I don't keep to any kind of schedule like I used to for raiding. I just log in and play keys, and I'm tired of standing around with a buddy or two looking for the god classes before starting to actually play.

I asked a couple friends online today if they thought Brezes should be spread to a couple more classes/specs. A holy paladin / mage (4-5k on both) said definitely. A prot warrior (4.5k) said absolutely for mythic + . And a hunter (4.8k) said I don't know I just shoot things.

05/28/2018 09:32 AMPosted by Bwuahahahaha

Yea the devs might go through with their engi brez item. But like I said they're just throwing a bone to the noobs, it doesn't really fix anything other than a perceived problem that the noobs come up with. Just like how people thought implementing brez charges would do anything but o wait... the same ultra meta classes are being invited anyway and in fact warlocks got a buff from that change.


You say throwing a bone to newbs, I say attempting to fix a problem. Personally I don't love the engr idea but it's better than what we have now.

Brez charges was still a good change in my opinion.
05/28/2018 08:20 PMPosted by Silverknight
You say throwing a bone to newbs, I say attempting to fix a problem. Personally I don't love the engr idea but it's better than what we have now.

Brez charges was still a good change in my opinion.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. The jokes write themselves.

https://i.imgur.com/s3uJ1gr.png

Bunch of bads cry over brez stacking so blizzard throws them a bone. After the changes the same people suddenly shut up about it as if it greatly simmered down on the "brez stacking" and yet statistically nothing changed other than windwalkers who nickel and dimed everyone else's % usage that wasn't a druid/warlock/paladin/dk, and that was mostly to do with ww's getting massive buffs in t21 than anything else.

Blizzard knows their changes weren't going to do much. They're not stupid. They have good players in their company. They also talk to a lot of the high m+ players. They went through with this change anyway because the bads were too loud and they knew these sorts of mindless puppets can never be reasoned with. People like you. I'm sure even after looking at this, you're going to come up with yet another way to shove your anecdotes above reason, logic, and factual information available from reliable sources.

Anyways I see you're starting to pull out the life card so you're running on your last leg it seems.
Na they went through with the brez change is because of the honestly comp in mdi2k17 where it's 4 brez (edited). Which was the main goal of that group comp. It's not cause bads were too loud. Interview is below if u wanna see.

It's cause it will create a degenerative environment where people assume brez is everything, plus it balances out brezzes as depending on how many brez classes u have in the group.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman/2017/10/01/how-warcrafts-mythic-dungeon-invitational-is-changing-the-game/#23f51c1b6700
If you ask me that's a large part of the reason why bads were being loud over it last year. They see something at mdi. It must be the way. It noticeably got worse after mdi happened. Silverknight sees a single no healer comp (which failed horrendously) at this mdi, he's melting is brain over it as if it's a real problem. It's the same thing. Statistically, nothing actually changed for the rest of 7.3.0 even though the brez came in much later in t21
However that brez change was already hinted post MDI, and the top end m+ all knew it wasnt an issue or rather it was a buff to the old brez, as the only spec that can "bank" a brez is a warlock, being soulstone 15min buff 10min cd, and that the "pressure" of having multiple brez classes alleviated to bank for safeguards and/or cheeses.

I dont think that the change was made because people cried foul over a comp that stacked multiple brez. But was made to prevent an edge case from happening.

I wont deny that overall there was not much change because there really wasnt any for dps or healers. druids/pallies were top for heals since ever, and lock / rogue / boomies / mages / hunters has always been good stable picks, with ww / dh really picked more after t21 came in.
(Have to compare 25-29 for 7.3.2, vs 20-24 for 7.3 and before) as thats top end status.

Nothing shifted because the m+ meta is already fixed, with only the main change were tanks being guardians dropping in power(from MoU removal), brms showing signs of falling behind to magic damage as the keys go higher, in favor for bdk/vdh (which both also recieved a tooooon of buffs heading into 7.3), with both having cheat deaths and absurd mob manipulation and massive on demand hp pools, and vdhs getting stronger with t21 was just icing.

Not to mention the rising popularity of m+ streams, showcasing what the top end players could do with their classes. Masses follow the path of least resistance, and with readily accessible information, its ripe for picking.
I mean sure but I don't think we're differing a whole lot on our opinions.

When you say blizzard didn't want to create an environment where people assumed brez was everything, that's a very polite way of saying blizzard wanted to preemptively force the pacifier into these guy's mouths. At the end of the day, it's the same demographic we're talking about, and it's the same problem. It's just as you said, the high end m+ players aren't the ones who sees this sort of stuff as a problem. Blizzard is all for creativity, and I'm sure they won't do anything about the no-healer comp that was used this year, it's only when they think people will make a big deal out of things that they're forced to play their hand, even if nothing truly changes out of it.

And I showed a comparison of middle tier keys because that's where the paladin falls under.
05/29/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Bwuahahahaha
I mean sure but I don't think we're differing a whole lot on our opinions.

When you say blizzard didn't want to create an environment where people assumed brez was everything, that's a very polite way of saying blizzard wanted to preemptively force the pacifier into these guy's mouths. At the end of the day, it's the same demographic we're talking about, and it's the same problem. It's just as you said, the high end m+ players aren't the ones who sees this sort of stuff as a problem. Blizzard is all for creativity, and I'm sure they won't do anything about the no-healer comp that was used this year, it's only when they think people will make a big deal out of things that they're forced to play their hand, even if nothing truly changes out of it.

And I showed a comparison of middle tier keys because that's where the paladin falls under.


Fair enough.

No healer comp is a such a niche, that it doesnt really make sense aside from doing keys that isnt prog, and speed runs, 0 healer comps has existed for the longest time just to clear weeklies and what not.

I mean the main meme was that 1 bdk 4 warlock shenanigans with warler's crew in early 7.3 that they want to push it as high as possible, and blizzard nudged it by nerfing the drain talent just a tad bit just to say hey we're watching you.

But in all things aside, 0 healer comps is not viable for general populace and is infact very fragile.
Why sweat over things that are likely not going to bother you?

I'm not even 3k though I been slowly working my up towards doing 18-19's consistently and want to start doing 20-21's eventually...I haven't had a single run so far even with more competent people than myself in mythic plus that would have been possible without a healer.

Whatever happened to just having fun clearing keys and not worry about such absurd things?
I wasn't implying that the Brez charges was a game changer, my comment was to be taken at face value: it was a good idea. It prevented people from doing things in dungeons that were kind of dumb. You, as always, read into it the way you wanted and made snide comments based around something I didn't actually say or even imply.

Hypothetically if they introduced Engr rez tomorrow, the groups saying "need Brez class only" would go away completely, and some of the skilled players who want to play these keys wouldn't have to deal with this crap. You're right that overall, comps would probably not change much, but at least one small problem would be fixed.

My comment about the no-healer comp was just to show that as keys get higher, I personally would like to see that healers are challenged similarly to the other group members, and that if a group chooses not to bring one, it'd be just as detrimental as choosing not to bring a tank.
This paladin always complains how his posts are constantly misinterpreted. He comes here and b****es to no end how I'm the one being vague about my posts. Meanwhile he posts these 1 liners with 0 explanation or context and whines some more when people obviously are forced to start guessing some of his motives since you know... there's 0 explanation attached to them. Not like it really matters since you backpedaled into something you were once again: wrong about. It's really noble that you're oh so concerned about people doing stupid stuff with the old brez system. Except virtually nothing changed at all and if anything, whatever these things that may be remotely considered "dumb" were abused even harder with the changes that came in.
05/29/2018 08:32 PMPosted by Bwuahahahaha
It's really noble that you're oh so concerned about people doing stupid stuff with the old brez system. Except virtually nothing changed at all and if anything, whatever these things that may be remotely considered "dumb" were abused even harder with the changes that came in.


I never said I was concerned about it, I assume they implemented the change because they didn't like what they saw. The rest of your post was more of your signature made up nonsense.

Also, you mentioned before that they'll implement changes just to appease people who scream about problems on the forums. Which is the same logic you're using now as to why they might go forward with an engr rez. But, I'm looking around the forums and I don't see any threads with complaints about brez, likely because it's a localized problem within higher M+ keys. And you can't blame me for the engr rez because this thread didn't exist when it as pitched. So why do you think they did it?

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