BFA Feral Feedback

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08/20/2018 11:44 PMPosted by Kaelron
but maybe some folks play specs because they're enjoyable.


Here's the problem. There is no spec besides Feral with a playstyle similar to bleed Feral. DD Feral plays almost exactly like a Rogue. If you want the spammy DD playstyle, go play a Rogue.

Hence why people who like the Bleed spec are so against buffing the DD spec, because it will effectively destroy the bleed spec (since Blizz can't balance both DD and bleeds - whenever DD is good, bleeds are trash, and when bleeds are good DD is trash)
08/21/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Morthra
08/20/2018 11:44 PMPosted by Kaelron
but maybe some folks play specs because they're enjoyable.


Here's the problem. There is no spec besides Feral with a playstyle similar to bleed Feral. DD Feral plays almost exactly like a Rogue. If you want the spammy DD playstyle, go play a Rogue.

Hence why people who like the Bleed spec are so against buffing the DD spec, because it will effectively destroy the bleed spec (since Blizz can't balance both DD and bleeds - whenever DD is good, bleeds are trash, and when bleeds are good DD is trash)


Well that's a generalization and a half right there. Personally, I've got a little more faith in Blizzard's development and balance team, and I think that direct damage and Bleed-focused gameplay can coexist quite nicely in the Feral spec if properly tuned.

And quite frankly, I'm not advocating for a spammy direct damage "rogue-like" playstyle, I'm advocating for direct damage skills to have greater importance in Feral gameplay, rather than just serving as a lackluster way to drive our energy bar into the dirt as they do now.
08/21/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Morthra
Here's the problem. There is no spec besides Feral with a playstyle similar to bleed Feral.
Yeah, that's the kicker of a design that's so outdated. The fundamental basics of the design need to be stripped back. Get rid of this whole DD/Bleed subspec issue as it's obviously not working out.

Design a Feral that's enjoyable to play. Which has the niche in bleeds, but without the complete !@#$heap gameplay of BT. Design talents to augment the base gameplay without having to tune around completely separate subspecs. Honestly sound like a broken %^-*ing record with this issue!!!

Players have every right to avoid BT as it can feel !@#$ing cancerous to play!!!

Problem being if tuning favours one style or another, the players who enjoy a vastly different gameplay gets %^-*ed over, be it DD or Bleed!!!

So Kaelron is absolutely correct in that if they enjoy Feral, and druid as a whole, absolutely should not be obligated to a talent that segregated the playerbase!
08/21/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Morthra
DD Feral plays almost exactly like a Rogue.
No, it !@#$ing doesn't!!! Baseline similarities aside of builder/spender there is the overall Druid options and fantasy. The amount of snapshotting and involvement of spender resources is also very different to Rogue. And if your argument leads to telling people to re-roll, there's no hope for you...

08/21/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Morthra
since Blizz can't balance both DD and bleeds - whenever DD is good, bleeds are trash, and when bleeds are good DD is trash
So in recognising this problem where ploarising subspecs seem only segregate Feral players, something needs to be done to the spec baseline!!!

Again, base gameplay needs to be enjoyable while focusing on bleeds with an enjoyable style. Talents need to only augment abilities while bringing slight advantages into particular encounters. Of which, the talents we currently have which are causing these issues need to be completely scrapped for modern designs.

BT in particular, is objectively cancerous to the problem in how much it promotes the sub-spec issue, and the polarisation of players that have dispute with how it plays.
the best play styles I found for feral was during wraith of the lich king through to the end of mists of pandaria, warlords feral I did not like, legion feral I liked, so why not keep it like legion wraith cata and mop play styles where it was fun
The spec should be playable at a lower ilvl like the other classes. Waiting for scaling to kick in to help is just lazy class design.
08/21/2018 12:03 AMPosted by Morthra
DD Feral plays almost exactly like a Rogue.
No, it !@#$ing doesn't!!! Baseline similarities aside of builder/spender there is the overall Druid options and fantasy. The amount of snapshotting and involvement of spender resources is also very different to Rogue. And if you're argument leads to telling people to re-roll, there's no hope for you...


So, I actually agree with Morthra a bit here. In its current iteration, direct damage-based Feral builds do play very similarly to a rogue. Not a carbon copy by any stretch of the imagination, but too close for comfort.

And I agree that if you opt for the direct damage subspec, you're going to miss out on a lot of the mechanical depth that Feral has to offer.

So this is really at the core of what I think really needs to change for Feral, a new design direction that moves Feral baseline gameplay further away from the space occupied by rogue specializations, while providing reciprocal reinforcement for both direct damage and bleed-based skills i.e. the use of one should encourage the use of the other in some way.

08/21/2018 12:30 AMPosted by Rockford

BT in particular, is objectively cancerous to the problem in how much it promotes the sub-spec issue, and the polarisation of players that have dispute with how it plays.[/b]


Blood Talons is a tricky thing. I don't play it in its current iteration, but at the same time, I don't want to see it removed from the spec. I think it has a good gameplay loop. You build up to a finisher, which triggers a proc, which adds a buff, which adds more damage to another skill. That's kinda cool in theory.

However, it is a pain point for tuning and spec feel. After all, if a bleed can be buffed by Bloodtalons, how do we make it feel effectual and meaningful without that buff? Plus, with a 25% damage boost attached to it, it seems like its a talent that's really hard to rein in balance-wise over the course of an expansion's worth of gear upgrades.

And on top of that, I don't want to say its "clunky", but it really fails the spec fantasy and its kinda unintuitive. I heal myself or someone else, whether or not they need it, so I get a damage buff to my next two melee abilties? What if I need to use that proc to heal, but I'm not in good position to put out a 5-point rip or rake? Basically, it's a talent that feels great to use when everything lines up, and awful when it doesn't, and having something like that be the crutch that props up a spec's damage potential...well, that's just poor design.

Ultimately, I think that if Bloodtalons were changed from "Your next two melee abilities" to "Your next two bleeds or finishers", it'd be a lot smarter talent. The feeling of accidentally burning one charge of the buff on a shred is just patently unfun, but with this iteration, you could still choose to pump some extra damage into a Ferocious Bite or Maim, even though it would ideally be used on bleed damage skills like Rake, Rip, or Thrash
Being patchwerk kings and aoe !@#$ters is a dead dream. That was fine 8 years ago but the game has moved on and dungeons are now half (or more) of endgame content. We need burst, and we need aoe, to be relevant.

Feral since vanilla so please don't "old guard" me, thanks. My nostalgia is tied to stuff older than MoP and bloodtalons.
08/21/2018 07:56 AMPosted by Ginobili
Being patchwerk kings and aoe !@#$ters is a dead dream. That was fine 8 years ago but the game has moved on and dungeons are now half (or more) of endgame content. We need burst, and we need aoe, to be relevant.

Feral since vanilla so please don't "old guard" me, thanks. My nostalgia is tied to stuff older than MoP and bloodtalons.
Feral since vanilla. I'd love to see Blizzard manage to get Feral to a point where it maintains its bleed-and-snapshotting-centric playstyle *and* is competitive for AOE and add fights. But I don't necessarily think they will manage that, and given the choice between the current playstyle with all its weaknesses in various types of content, and 8.3 Feral which could actually compete in Mythic+, I'll take 8.3. I like to do dungeons.
We're currently working through a tuning package for Feral Druids.

Specifically, we're adjusting Feral performance relative to other specs in dungeons and questing. Please know: we've been reading all of the incoming feedback and keeping a close eye on player results in-game.

Thank you for all of this feedback. Much of it has been very useful in determining the substance of this adjustment.

This is something that we're testing carefully, and probably won't be finished and available to put into the live game until later this week. I'll let you know as soon as we have final numbers, and I'll post about it a final time when it goes live.
Thanks for the update Kaivax. Glad to know we’re being heard!
08/21/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Kaivax
We're currently working through a tuning package for Feral Druids.

Specifically, we're adjusting Feral performance relative to other specs in dungeons and questing. Please know: we've been reading all of the incoming feedback and keeping a close eye on player results in-game.

Thank you for all of this feedback. Much of it has been very useful in determining the substance of this adjustment.

This is something that we're testing carefully, and probably won't be finished and available to put into the live game until later this week. I'll let you know as soon as we have final numbers, and I'll post about it a final time when it goes live.


Thank you <3
My feral dungeon experience: guardian AoE is pretty good!!!

Sigh.
Sweet mother mary
I'll finally be able to play my druid, thanks blizz.
08/21/2018 01:11 PMPosted by Littleraven
08/21/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Kaivax
We're currently working through a tuning package for Feral Druids.

Specifically, we're adjusting Feral performance relative to other specs in dungeons and questing. Please know: we've been reading all of the incoming feedback and keeping a close eye on player results in-game.

Thank you for all of this feedback. Much of it has been very useful in determining the substance of this adjustment.

This is something that we're testing carefully, and probably won't be finished and available to put into the live game until later this week. I'll let you know as soon as we have final numbers, and I'll post about it a final time when it goes live.


Thank you <3


Glad to see that you are putting out ideas to fix the class, big props to you!
Hopefully it will help us come back up
sqwippy like this
08/21/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Kaivax
We're currently working through a tuning package for Feral Druids.

Specifically, we're adjusting Feral performance relative to other specs in dungeons and questing. Please know: we've been reading all of the incoming feedback and keeping a close eye on player results in-game.

Thank you for all of this feedback. Much of it has been very useful in determining the substance of this adjustment.

This is something that we're testing carefully, and probably won't be finished and available to put into the live game until later this week. I'll let you know as soon as we have final numbers, and I'll post about it a final time when it goes live.

Dream come true. Thank you so much for the response ^^
I'm so happy can keep working on my feral set, was so discouraged...thank you Blizz for listening!
Will ele shaman ever be fixed also?

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