Protect Trials from Loot abuse

Classic Discussion
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As you have heard, in BFA, Blizzard argued that Removing ML is to protect Trials.

So in Classic, we can say that Trials are going to be open to Loot abuse again??? Because of no changes?

Such conflicting beliefs - can we look to standardise it? Either Force PL for both games or keep ML for both games.
There will be no Personal Loot in Classic..

And do you mean Class Trials? There is no such thing in Classic either..
BFA is that way ----------------------->
My question is why do they allow Trials to have a risk of getting loot abused on Classic but not in BFA?

It is a conflicting principle. Get a whole of yourself purists, I know you are eager to start Ninja looting whenever you can - Idc, I just want to know why.
The OP appears to be just another poorly disguised "Let us keep ML in BFA" thread.

It is not even the first thread to try to use classic as a means to try to bully Blizzard into leaving guilds the option to funnel the best loot to members of the loot council or their cronies.
05/15/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Aerlys
Such conflicting beliefs - can we look to standardise it? Either Force PL for both games or keep ML for both games.

Simple answer, no, there's no way to standardize this. Why? Because in Vanilla / WOW: Classic:

(1) the internal loot tables are not designed for PL
(2) there is no spec selection, and no locked spec = role = desired stats
(3) gear stats are all over the place

I'm sorry you don't like what Blizzard is doing in BfA, but it has nothing to do with WOW: Classic because so much has changed.

Do you even realize we aren't even going to have the automatic Disenchant option, or the Group Loot option, because this is the original game "warts and all"? We accept that.
05/15/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Visaenya
And do you mean Class Trials?

For those who haven't been following the QQ in General Discussion, Blizzard is taking away Master Looter. They mean players applying to their guild and being taken along on a raid as a trial. It's a HORRIFYING thought to them that someone that comes along on a raid and contributes might randomly win loot because that's how PL works, instead of a guild Master Looter being able to prioritize their guild members.
If Classic is like Vanilla there probably won't be any class trials.

Keep in mind that in Vanilla there were only 2500 players per server. This meant the available pool of players from which to find raiders from was VERY small.

Unguilded high-end raiders were virtually unheard of. All the higher end raiders were in established raiding guilds. Those players also fought like crazy to maintain their raid slot since they knew that if they lost it, it might be impossible to find a comparable replacement guild with compatible raid times.

Vanilla raiding guilds sometimes experienced a phenomenon unheard of in today's WoW: "The Death Spiral".

When a guild got stalled on raiding progression for awhile it would tend to lose some of its best players. They'd get poached by higher progressed guilds.

If those players were in key positions (such as tank), the entire raiding group's progression would halt as the guild recruited replacements from lower progressed guilds. These replacements would never be up to par in gear or skill, so all progression was stalled for several more weeks while the guild farmed farm bosses to try to gear up the replacements.

Remember that in Vanilla catchup mechanics were much more limited than on live. The only place to gear up a tank sufficiently for later AQ40 bosses was earlier AQ40 bosses, which the raid could only clear once a week. Same for Naxx.

While progression was stalled gearing up the replacements more veteran raiders would quit, forcing the guild to recruit more replacements and gear them up. Eventually the rate of quitters would exceed the rate of recruits. The guild was in "The Death Spiral".

A guild might survive the death spiral and raid again. But it would be a pale shadow of what it was with an entirely different and inferior roster of players.

Also, because the only place to find recruits was from less-progressed guilds, when a guild experienced "the Death Spiral", it caused a chain-reaction effect that hit just about every less-progressed guild downstream.

Why do I think Classic won't have abuse of class trials? If they keep it authentic to vanilla the available pool of players is simply too small to allow a guild to throw away potential recruits.

Eventually word will get around and players will choose not to toss their valuable raid slot just to take their chances with a guild known for abusing and discarding recruits.
05/15/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Ratsmats
The OP appears to be just another poorly disguised "Let us keep ML in BFA" thread.

It is not even the first thread to try to use classic as a means to try to bully Blizzard into leaving guilds the option to funnel the best loot to members of the loot council or their cronies.


I am not. I am trying to clarify why is it that they protect Trials in BFA but not in classic.

No one seem to be able to answer.

And you don’t need spec specific to implement PL. Just make sure the correct armor type goes to the right class will do.
05/15/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Mistwynd
Keep in mind that in Vanilla there were only 2500 players per server. This meant the available pool of players from which to find raiders from was VERY small.
3500 according to the lead dev.
05/15/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Ratsmats
The OP appears to be just another poorly disguised "Let us keep ML in BFA" thread.

It is not even the first thread to try to use classic as a means to try to bully Blizzard into leaving guilds the option to funnel the best loot to members of the loot council or their cronies.


I am not. I am trying to clarify why is it that they protect Trials in BFA but not in classic.

No one seem to be able to answer...
You want some answers? How about the following:
  • Recruit abuse was much more difficult in Vanilla. Back in vanilla pool of potential recruits was so small due to 3500 player limit per server and there was no cross-realm gameplay other than paid server transfer introduced late in Vanilla.

    As such, it was not practical to use and discard recruits like it is in BFA. Any guild that tried would run out of recruits. And word would get around that that guild was a bad place to apply. The guild would effectively be blacklisted.
  • Virtually no details have been announced about Classic yet. For all we know, Blizzard actually might implement something to prevent this kind of abuse.
  • Recruit abuse wasn't a problem I recall ever reading about on these forums back in Vanilla. But it does appear to be a problem in Legion, so is worth correcting for BfA
  • Classic has different goals from BfA. Classic's goal is to recreate the Vanilla Experience, while BfA is about advancing the game into the future. As such, it makes more sense to get rid of ML in BfA than it does for Classic.
05/15/2018 11:33 AMPosted by Faceroll
05/15/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Mistwynd
Keep in mind that in Vanilla there were only 2500 players per server. This meant the available pool of players from which to find raiders from was VERY small.
3500 according to the lead dev.
Good to know. Still much, much smaller than the population of today's linked servers with free cross-realm gameplay.
05/15/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Aerlys
No one seem to be able to answer.

Seriously? Do you not read replies? Or do you just decide your ranting is right? I gave three major reasons why PL won't be in WOW: Classic. Here, I'll help you by quoting just those:
05/15/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Eilethalua
(1) the internal loot tables are not designed for PL
(2) there is no spec selection, and no locked spec = role = desired stats
(3) gear stats are all over the place


Not to mention what another player brought up:
05/15/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Mistwynd
Keep in mind that in Vanilla there were only 2500 players per server. This meant the available pool of players from which to find raiders from was VERY small.
This game has nothing to do with the mess known as BFA.
This wont be a problem because there is no trials in classic wow.
Personal loot would be good for classic, would cut out abuse and that super bad dkp system.
05/15/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Mightylink
This wont be a problem because there is no trials in classic wow.
You're off-topic. That's not what this thread is about.

The OP is not talking about trial subscriptions. Rather, he is talking about applicants to high end raiding guilds.

In Legion, some high-end guilds sometimes put applicants through a "trial" probationary period where the applicant goes to raids and participates in kills, but is ineligible for loot due to guild rules (and enforced via master loot).

Sometimes abusive guilds then kick the trials for no reason and find new trials. This means more loot to the veterans without having to share anything with the recruits.
They are two different games entirely? Might be a reason... my god keep this personal loot crap away from classic
I am all for PL. prevents abuse, and I guess guilds would need to be community selective.

I do remember ML being very abusive back in the days.

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