How to fix this Lightbound Debacle.

General Discussion
05/09/2018 07:59 PMPosted by Uthos
This sounds EXACTLY like something the Light would do. Xera?! Remember the Naaru expect unconditional blind faith and Loyalty. Why wouldn't Draenei who have no external enemies make sure their is peace on their terms.

In fact, I would be surprised if they don't come to our world to try to convert us!

Haven't you ever had any religious people knock on your door on a Sunday morning? Those people can be relentless!

The shadow artifact mentions elune is/was kin and the Naaru are thought to be born of elune. If the light and naaru are connected via spectrum with void lords then it makes for both spectrum extremes to have problematic effects.

I like the direction this would take. Ion said both sides have to worry about being evil and paladins becoming zealots of light is one of the ways. The scarlet crusade were once part of the human alliance I think and its natural to see dranei wanting to convert other beings.

Even Velen sees how controlling the Naaru can be.

The shadow artifact also mentions there were others before the dranei that the light used to excessively control and do there bidding. This is consistant and without Illidan's free will and genuine intentions the dranei would may have been misdirected in the campaign against the Legion.

In WoD we had a similiar threat keeping the light from prioritizing it's own agenda. Returning to a world where they are free to do there agenda without fear of the world ending like on Azeroth and things would turn out different. We cobstantly use each other to save the world vs AU were there was peace until the light start scheming.
My problem with this scenario isn't that the AU Draenei have turned into militant crusaders.
It's that they're only like that because it's painfully obvious that some outlier Naaru, probably the AU X'era, showed up and made them all that way.

It would have been much more compelling if it just turns out that the Draenei and Orcs tried the peace thing for a few years, something happened that soured the relationship to a truly irreparable level, and in turn the Draenei went full DEUS VULT on the Orcs because they're just tired of looking at freakin' Orcs.

But no. It needs more corrupting and brainwashing.
And it always ends one of two ways.
A) The brainwashed/corrupted character is freed/cured, and they just go about business as usual like nothing happened (Save for, Garrosh)
or B) They come back to their senses right as they're dying, and apologize for being manipulated in their dying words.

This crap is stupid.

If Blizzard is so keen on this "Shades of grey" push they keep salivating over, make the decisions the AU Draenei are making of their own free will. Not from some stupid lightforging that was probably forced on them before they started forcing it on Orcs.

Also no lightbound Orcs like the OP suggested.


If Blizzard is so keen on this "Shades of grey" push they keep salivating over, make the decisions the AU Draenei are making of their own free will. Not from some stupid lightforging that was probably forced on them before they started forcing it on Orcs.


But they are? They are willingly following the Naaru. The Naaru have never been shown capabilities of mind control before. They aren't really being manipulated as the Naaru truly believe their path is the only path. It is just simply the AU Draenei are without their leader and blindly follow the only Light they can see. But stare into the sun for too long and you lose your sight.

AU Draenei are what could have happened to the MU Draenei if Velen kept on following the Naaru without question.
05/09/2018 09:57 PMPosted by Azivalla

But they are? They are willingly following the Naaru. The Naaru have never been shown capabilities of mind control before. They aren't really being manipulated as the Naaru truly believe their path is the only path. It is just simply the AU Draenei are without their leader and blindly follow the only Light they can see. But stare into the sun for too long and you lose your sight.


We literally watched X'era try to force Illidan to embrace The Light against his will because he refused to do so on his own

Also, this line from the broadcast text.
"Their naaru masters compelled them to spread their influence among the orcs. A few converted willingly. Others had the Light forced upon them."

Their Naaru masters compelled them.
Others had the light forced upon them.
That doesn't sound like the Draenei doing it because they want to, but because they were ordered to do so.
And if the Naaru couldn't force people to do what they want, then why would Orcs that once resisted The Light suddenly hop right on board with it after the lightforging process? That sounds like a loss of free will to me.

Then there's the rest of the broadcast text, where the Draenei were parroting the exact same crap X'era was all throughout Legion. Almost word for word in some cases. Sayings regarding The Light that we had never heard until she and the lightforged Draenei had shown up.

So yes, we have enough evidence now to at least assume that Naaru, or in the very least X'era, are capable of forcing their will upon others.
05/09/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Maizou
Simple fix really. Remove all references to Yrel and the Draenei forcing some of the orcs to join the Light. There's only like 2 lines that state this, it's an easy fix.

They also state some orcs joined the Lightbound of their free will. Just make it so that *all* Lightbound Orcs willingly joined. Voila, problem solved.

Yrel and the Draenei were a people persecuted by the Legion and forced to flee multiple planets to avoid being enslaved by them.

They would NEVER force another race to see their way, especially people who helped fight against the Legion side by side.


Why? and why is it a debacle? the problem isn't the light or story its your perception of what the light is... The Light is force of nature that promotes a singular vision with no deviation. Anyone who thinks different is ultimately an enemy... have we forgotten about the Scarlet Crusade? they believed in the light, and followed the light BUT killed COUNTLESS people without any remorse...

The light has always been flawed, people who think that good and evil exist in WoW haven't been paying attention. Just like people might think Fel is super corrupting... but Arcane is arguably just as bad if not worse!

Xe'ra shows us without a doubt that the light is capable of great evil... in the name of justice and righteousness...

I LOVE the idea of the light being just as reprehensible as the void
Nothing to fix, it's something you don't like is all.
05/09/2018 10:22 PMPosted by Falazure
Just like people might think Fel is super corrupting... but Arcane is arguably just as bad if not worse!


Arcane is the power of the titans.
Arcane is the life blood of the very world soul that safeguards us from total annihilation.
Arcane is the metaphysical manifestation of order in the universe.

Without Arcane, Azeroth as we know it would not exist.
At best, it would have remained a primitive hellscape populated almost entirely by barbaric trolls.
At worst, it would have been devoured by the void or converted by The Legion sooner or later.
05/09/2018 07:52 PMPosted by Akemitis
I've been gone for five months, what happened?

Same. Wtf is a "lightbound lrc" and what is this about !@#$ Draenei?
05/09/2018 11:17 PMPosted by Haidivh
05/09/2018 07:52 PMPosted by Akemitis
I've been gone for five months, what happened?

Same. Wtf is a "lightbound lrc" and what is this about !@#$ Draenei?
Mag'har recruitment scenario was datamined.

-Naaru ordered the draenei to launch a crusade against the orcs
-The goal is to Lightforge every sapient being on the planet
-Yrel is High Exarch
-Some orcs were turncoats, the rest were forcibly converted
-Grom's son is among the Lightforged orcs, dubbed "Lightbound"
-Durotan and Draka had a daughter instead of a son
-Durotan was killed off camera. Again.
05/09/2018 07:58 PMPosted by Voshi
GOD I hate time travel


Not time travel its alternate realities.
Or you know...just keep it how it is and have a perceived good group of people lose themselves to the Light like a shadow priest loses themselves to the Void

Or that not allowed because it muddys the water of the Draenei and the Light?
05/10/2018 12:14 AMPosted by Teilvia
05/09/2018 11:17 PMPosted by Haidivh
...
Same. Wtf is a "lightbound lrc" and what is this about !@#$ Draenei?
Mag'har recruitment scenario was datamined.

-Naaru ordered the draenei to launch a crusade against the orcs
-The goal is to Lightforge every sapient being on the planet
-Yrel is High Exarch
-Some orcs were turncoats, the rest were forcibly converted
-Grom's son is among the Lightforged orcs, dubbed "Lightbound"
-Durotan and Draka had a daughter instead of a son
-Durotan was killed off camera. Again.

I suddenly got a massive headache from this
Just give more development to the actual playable draenei. Give us more than 1 major character. Give us a real city. Give us rangari, auchenai, and vigilants.

If Blizzard is going to waste all of WoD's draenei stuff then spend time actually developing the Exodar draenei.
OH NOES, ALLIANCE CAN’T EVER BE THE VILLAINS! YOU CAN’T DO THIS TO US WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS!!!

Now you know how Horde feels about Garrosh being written into a pile of hitler. Sucks doesn’t it?

Edit: BTW, does this mean we get tentacle Jesus spreading to us all the good word of the void? N’Zoth will guide is into the safety of the shadow.
05/09/2018 10:32 PMPosted by Teria
05/09/2018 10:22 PMPosted by Falazure
Just like people might think Fel is super corrupting... but Arcane is arguably just as bad if not worse!


Arcane is the power of the titans.
Arcane is the life blood of the very world soul that safeguards us from total annihilation.
Arcane is the metaphysical manifestation of order in the universe.

Without Arcane, Azeroth as we know it would not exist.
At best, it would have remained a primitive hellscape populated almost entirely by barbaric trolls.

[/quote]

Well, how rude.
05/10/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Adelphie
Just give more development to the actual playable draenei. Give us more than 1 major character. Give us a real city. Give us rangari, auchenai, and vigilants.

If Blizzard is going to waste all of WoD's draenei stuff then spend time actually developing the Exodar draenei.
Developing the Exodar draenei on a cultural level actually requires them going back to the Silvermyst Isles, and you know as well as I do that they will never do that unless it's for destruction.
I actually wanted Yrel back. She was one of those few non-orc characters we got in WoD that gave the Alliance players something to look forward to.

I wonder if this change of events would have been foreshadowed in the cancelled Shatt raid (our lost Raid Tier) which was suppose to give us some sort of dark secret about Yrel (like her MU version was a powerful demon with the Legion or something I imagine).

But this basically takes away (potentally) one of the Alliance's characters, not only without context, but in a completely Horde storyline. If no one reads the datamined text or plays Horde, the Alliance players that only play Alliance will never know about this (unless the story continues on later).

But this also beings something into question. High King Anduin Wrynn, who one day in the future will be leading the Army of the Light. Will it be this new version were the Light can be the evil force converting all to the Light, or will it be the kind we have seen prior to this with Velen's group trying to keep the Void from consuming the universe?
05/09/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Maizou
Simple fix really. Remove all references to Yrel and the Draenei forcing some of the orcs to join the Light. There's only like 2 lines that state this, it's an easy fix.

They also state some orcs joined the Lightbound of their free will. Just make it so that *all* Lightbound Orcs willingly joined. Voila, problem solved.

Yrel and the Draenei were a people persecuted by the Legion and forced to flee multiple planets to avoid being enslaved by them.

They would NEVER force another race to see their way, especially people who helped fight against the Legion side by side.


What would be better is to have the Draenei spreading word and light teachings.

However having their new orc converts become self appointed zealots for the light trying to spread their enlightenment of their own accord.

Orcs warring over territory, resources, and ideology is profoundly rooted in their culture.(Iron horde being the most recent example)

Using their new found faith and powers to cull and convert their own peoples and scattered tribes seems not only plausible but par for the course.

The cause and reasoning for this is the decimation of all tribes under Grom during WoD casuing all the splinted and abused tribes to look for a new sorce of stabilty in their recent allies the Draenei. (Possible idea: New Garrosh being disgusted by his fathers past enslavment and slaughters of both peoples for his own glory before the legion even showed up.)

The roll the Draenei should have is only one of association. Or being drag into the conflict to defend the Lightbound from their reckless attacks on their people. Would make them culpable in the attacks while be mistaken for taking sides.
I just object on the grounds that I wish everything related to WoD was buried in a hole and never spoken of again.
Alliance, I appreciate that Yrel and draenei doing this feels out of left field, but the notion that they wouldn't ever do it EVER smacks of not being able to handle your faction ever doing bad things.

I completely agree it shouldn't be solely part of a Horde quest (this is Silverpine's Gilneas bits all over again) but this is absolutely something the Draenei could do.

It's something that the draenei ought to have internal debate on.

It's something we should see reasoning for by Yrel, and other draenei saying might not be a good thing.

We should see development from there.

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