PvP Tier System?

War Mode and World PvP
The different ranking stuff looks like a good step towards getting a solo q of some kind.

However, only getting to choose 3 honor talents at a time seems a bit weak. We probably need a 4th slot to really round it out.
05/09/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Crypticcross
05/08/2018 09:08 PMPosted by Vindi
I like a lot of what I have read here,
Top pvp'ers having gear equal to top raiders will be a welcome incentive.

I was worried at first about glad being too easy but seeing that you will be keeping it a % is wonderful the new ladder sounds great to me.
My only concern is that the system won't be mentioned much to most PvE players. Dungeon journal, some kind of questline explaining it, or a UI that shows it off would all be great.

While participation should be much higher as long as the balance of the game is good and classes aren't too empty from pruning, if your average player doesn't know about this feature then arena participation probably won't change much.


If the gear is good pve'ers will notice.

The reason I first got into pvp way back when (BC) was as a raider on a small server the pvp gear was really good in pve.

I initially tried pvp to help me pve in the end i stopped doing pve because i found i really enjoyed pvp.


New ranking system
We're updating the ranking system to better mirror the other games at Blizzard. WoW via arena is actually one of the first competitive games at Blizzard to have a rating system, so it's fair to say it's time for an update.

To that end we want to bucket players in rankings similar to StarCraft or Overwatch using labels such as Gold, Platinum etc. (We're still going to have our own titles (Challenger, Rival, Duelist etc.)) We feel these rankings have grown to common verbage in the competitive PvP community so we're happy to bring them to WoW. Keep in mind that you'll still be able to see your rating at end of match and within the UI. And we're also looking to add your actual rank in the UI as well (as in, you're rank #10 in the region).

Epic Appearances and other rewards
Different rewards will be tied to different rankings. In Legion you got the entire Epic appearance when you hit 2000 rating, in BfA this will be gradually rewarded to you at different ranks. And you will instantly get the look after you achieve that rank, rather than a end of season calculation.

Season Gladiator mounts (and likely glad titles) will still be a % distribution at end of season like in the past, and we could see new rewards for the upper brackets as we shift some of the others (Epic appearances) downwards.


Snipped a bit here to avoid clutter, but I’d like to point out a few things about what I read here.

Yep, fully understand that like you said, this is subject to change, so I’ll get that disclaimer out of the way.

But one glaring thing I see here...

New ranking system, instant rewards, bucket system...

But % reward for Gladiator mounts and titles? That doesn’t make much sense. What’s the purpose of having a Gladiator bucket if you have to be of a % to get the rewards? Just sounds a little fuzzy.

I agree that the system has gotten a little stale. I got two Glad mounts myself, almost a decade ago. It really is time for it to update.

But it seems like putting the ranks in a bucket but leaving the % title and mount rewards is a little strange.

Also... Is it maybe time to update how the titles and mounts work? It’s nice to go on that character I earned the title (which of course I no longer have and by nature is short-lived for most players because they don’t get it every season) and the mounts on, but it would be nice to finally be able to use those mounts on other characters that I actively play because the game encourages having alts.

I was honestly hoping that eventually the Gladiator title would be retired or reworked and people that got it could finally just wear it as a badge. I don’t expect that to actually happen but I think a change to the mounts should at least be considered!
05/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Phalanx
To that end we want to bucket players in rankings similar to StarCraft or Overwatch using labels such as Gold, Platinum etc.


What exactly does this mean? One of my biggest turn offs in PvP is a less experienced person in arenas like myself constantly queueing into players that clearly dont belong in a bracket. For example I will queue against gladiator rated platers doing 3s at 1600-1800mmr. I never found this exciting in the slightest.

2 Main questions come to mind.

Will these rankings be account wide?

Will they reset at the end of every season or roll over into the next?

05/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Phalanx
Different rewards will be tied to different rankings. In Legion you got the entire Epic appearance when you hit 2000 rating, in BfA this will be gradually rewarded to you at different ranks.


I don't understand, sorry. Will the 2000+ rating requirement still be there. Os is what you're saying you will unlock different slots of the set as you progress higher in the new ranking system?
First of all, while obviously not perfect (yet)...this is a huge step in the right direction for WoW PVP.

I believe that leaving Glad Titles/Mounts and designing new rewards for percentage based placement (top 10%,3%,1.5%,etc.) nullifies your original concerns OP (Which I totally understand).

I can't wait for more details, this is all very exciting news!
Rewards should be tied to rating range and not %, like in others games (hots for example), simple like that. Whats the point of making "Gladiador" be 2.4 if he'll not get the mount? That makes no sense.
Rewards should be tied to rating range and not %, like in others games (hot for example), simple like that. Whats the point of making "Gladiador" be 2.4 if he'll not get the mount? That makes no sense.


Don't change the way old rewards worked, that warps the perception of past achievements and pvp rewards. Simply create new ones.
05/09/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Glenne
Rewards should be tied to rating range and not %, like in others games (hot for example), simple like that. Whats the point of making "Gladiador" be 2.4 if he'll not get the mount? That makes no sense.


Don't change the way old rewards worked, that warps the perception of past achievements and pvp rewards. Simply create new ones.


Sure, but... making a “Gladiator” bucket and then percentage of ladder “Gladiator” rewards just doesn’t make sense. So not everyone in the “Gladiator” bucket is going to get the “Gladiator” rewards?

They can do some renaming, I guess? It might make more sense then.
05/09/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Glenne
Rewards should be tied to rating range and not %, like in others games (hot for example), simple like that. Whats the point of making "Gladiador" be 2.4 if he'll not get the mount? That makes no sense.


Don't change the way old rewards worked, that warps the perception of past achievements and pvp rewards. Simply create new ones.


But the rewards can't be tied to both ratings and %.

If a Mythic Quality item is set to 2000 rating, and the season inflammation takes rank 1 to 3000+, you'll see people who are normally "rival" in mythic level gear.

Or vice versa, if a season is low on players, like the first few seasons of an expansion usually are, you will see rank 1 players stuck at 2100 rating. Unable to obtain the 2300 "Platinum" status and the mythic gear it rewards.

Being rank 5 in the Nation, receiving heroic quality gear, unable to access your Epic Shoulders Xmog, doesn't feel good.

Edit: I guess, if you want both, you have to make rewards tied to rating while giving different end of the season rewards to the top rated players.

Take the data from the last 24 seasons, and find the average. Make the brackets be the same titles they are now because they are iconic to World of Warcraft. Being "gold league" is redundant with rating and titles already having such a history.

Find the Average duelist ranking of the last 20 seasons and make that the bracket for an Un-armored version of the Gladiator Drake. Also, change the mount from the protos, that's just lazy art development.

Unranked: 0 - 1400 - Normal Dungeon Level gear
Combatant: 1375 - 1600 - Belts Boots Bracer Xmog - Heroic Dungeon Level gear
Challenger: 1575 - 1800 - Pants and Chest Xmog - LFR level gear
Rival: 1775 - 2100 - Helm and Shoulders Xmog - Normal Raid level gear
Duelist: 2075 - 2400 - Unarmored Faction Based Mount - Heroic Raid level gear
Gladiator: 2375+ - Armored Faction Based Mount - Mythic Raid Level gear

Top .1% - Season Title
Top 1% = Enchant
Top 5% = Tabard

Reaching 2400 and "sitting for glad" is really no different than reaching 2400 and instantly receiving a glad mount. May help encourage people to play on alts too.

RBG could then be changed to be the High warlord /grand marshal Rankings with faction based ground mounts for Marshal/Warlord and armored ground mounts for High Warlord/Grand Marshal level.
05/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Phalanx
No pony promises.


:thinking:
05/09/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Glenne
Rewards should be tied to rating range and not %, like in others games (hot for example), simple like that. Whats the point of making "Gladiador" be 2.4 if he'll not get the mount? That makes no sense.


Don't change the way old rewards worked, that warps the perception of past achievements and pvp rewards. Simply create new ones.


The other thing too is they already changed how rank 1 titles worked. To a newer player, someone who got Brutal Gladiator probably isn’t viewed much differently than someone who got Warmongering Gladiator, even though the Brutal Gladiator was actually on a team that was rank 1 and the Warmongering Gladiator may have just been in the cutoff.
My guess is it’s going to be very unlikely the PvP gear will be relevant for high level PvE. For

1. Trinkets.

2. I am guessing that the PvP Azerite traits will be designed with PvP in mind. Dungeon Azerit traits with dungeons in mind. And raid Azerite traits with raids in mind.

There will be a massive power difference between Azerite pieces even with the same ilvl.

Similarly, this would keep PvP gear being best for PvPers.
With the direction this is taking, it will be like playing Russian Roulette every week, with the slight promise that this bullet is the real one. The 7 same trinkets in a row for 2 months are incoming, brace yourselves.
05/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Phalanx
In result we're changing the distribution instead to be something of a bell curve, to match the new ranking system.


My statistician senses are tingling. Did Sigma have a hand in this?!?!?
05/09/2018 10:31 AMPosted by Glenne
...

Don't change the way old rewards worked, that warps the perception of past achievements and pvp rewards. Simply create new ones.


Sure, but... making a “Gladiator” bucket and then percentage of ladder “Gladiator” rewards just doesn’t make sense. So not everyone in the “Gladiator” bucket is going to get the “Gladiator” rewards?

They can do some renaming, I guess? It might make more sense then.

This.

People who hit "Gladiator" but then don't get the "Gladiator" mount are going to be rightfully upset when they see they're not getting one of the biggest incentives in the game for their efforts. (Mounts are by far one of the biggest motivators I've seen for folks in the genre.)

Just slap the mount onto the rank, or change the name of the mount and advertise it as something else. Changing things now doesn't take away from the past accomplishments as those items are still 100% unobtainable.
I like the idea in principle, since PvP gear right now is a complete joke ilvl wise for the relative effort involved...

That bein said, I also have some pretty large concerns with
(via mmo champ)
Unranked: 0 - 1400
Combatant: 1375 - 1600
Challenger: 1575 - 1800
Rival: 1775 - 2100
Duelist: 2075 - 2400
Gladiator: 2375+

And the idea that the elite sets are going to be gated piece by piece through the ratings, given those numbers.... Since it either makes unlocking the entire elite set too easy (clearing 1800 instead of 2k), or more diifficult than the current system (clearing 2100 instead of 2k... or 2400 if you make it "gladiator" level)....

You aren't going to improve participation by locking things behind unattainable barriers to the vast majority of the population, so the relative difficulty should ideally remain unchanged.

Also, rewards wise...Just something about the community in general.... Let's say for example that the cutoff is 2400 for the shoulders appearance. People who are clearing the 1800 or 2100 thresh holds still aren't going care about the xmog.... because the way this community works is that getting everything else isn't a sign of personal prestige that you cleared 1800/2100.... but rather your lack of shoulders/complete set is a sign that you weren't good enough to complete 2400.
05/09/2018 11:02 AMPosted by Ythisens
05/08/2018 08:31 PMPosted by Phalanx
No pony promises.


:thinking:


DELETE THIS NEPHEW......
I absolutely love this proposed system. It seems that everyone at blizzard is listening to many of the concerns and requests from players. I truly believe this will boost ranked PvP Participation. However, I really would like to see you create a definite bracket for Gladiator, as many games with similar systems propose a percentage based system only for Rank 1 Status. I think that would encourage many players who are close to Gladiator to continue their push, and achieve a bracket that garners much respect. Additionally, achieving the gladiator bracket might close the gap between Rank 1 & Gladiator players, and in tern bring the community together. Finally, I believe that the Rank 1 bracket, similar to Top 500 in OverWatch, will still be desired for the respect from players as well as the permanent title. Great Job!!
05/09/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Felicìa
I absolutely love this proposed system. It seems that everyone at blizzard is listening to many of the concerns and requests from players. I truly believe this will boost ranked PvP Participation. However, I really would like to see you create a definite bracket for Gladiator, as many games with similar systems propose a percentage based system only for Rank 1 Status. I think that would encourage many players who are close to Gladiator to continue their push, and achieve a bracket that garners much respect. Additionally, achieving the gladiator bracket might close the gap between Rank 1 & Gladiator players, and in tern bring the community together. Finally, I believe that the Rank 1 bracket, similar to Top 500 in OverWatch, will still be desired for the respect from players as well as the permanent title. Great Job!!

This.

Give em' a shiny portrait border with a number like in HoTS or something too.

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