Alliance War Campaign, not so good guys.

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05/12/2018 07:53 PMPosted by Antiman
This is more of a player issue, than it is just an issue with Alliance. Most people do not want to play the bad guy. There's a reason why there are a lot of threads, from Horde players, complaining about Sylvanas's actions. If not because they're evil, because they ruin the reputation of the Horde as a band of survivors trying to make their existence. Most Horde players don't want to be the bad guy either.


Right, there are those of us that don't want to be the "bad guy", however, the Horde is a faction of the more monstrous races, even the peaceful Tauren look like minotaurs of old. I may not want to be the "bad guy" but I can see my faction being brutal, if honorable, I can see them being pragmatic, with ones like the forsaken, I can even see them being darker then the alliance.

My main issue is not what the Horde is doing, but how the races that might have issues with it are being handled, like the Tauren would be against the burning of Teldrassil unless they were told it was corrupted, however they still might want to try and conquer it in order to protect themselves and their allies. There are those of us that, in the battle for Lordaeron, would like the option of providing "mercy kills" to the alliance that are suffering from the blight and/or the ability to try and save our own soldiers caught in it.


thats the thing though.

Its kind of a horrible precedent to set when you think of it that "ugly things are evil, therefore its okay to kill them"

Because even in the real world people have a nasty habit of thinking pretty people are automatically better people.
05/12/2018 07:58 PMPosted by Withpuppys
(unless they changed it to where you can only pick up a spreader)


Thing is, at one point I did hear this is what happened, they could have put it back in, but at one point it was not an option.

05/12/2018 08:01 PMPosted by Elleteil
Its kind of a horrible precedent to set when you think of it that "ugly things are evil, therefore its okay to kill them"


It is, but in my mind it would be better to separate the factions based more on what they would be more like: the alliance, while not good, is more akin to modern societies in deeds and words, where as the Horde, while not evil, would be more akin to indigenous people in areas like Africa or, if one really wants to press it, ancient societies with the more warrior/conqueror mindset (the Huns, Rome, etc.).

Also, we have the Blood Elves and a sect of Pandaren, not "ugly" visually, but the Blood Elves at least have their own misdeeds (to put it mildly) in their past.
05/12/2018 07:43 PMPosted by Cyrellis
05/12/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Elleteil
But there was also the evidence he did it in response to the nobles stiffing him on payment and basically leaving the entire masons guild with no money to feed their families after all the work done rebuilding Stormwind.

That was Onyxia's fault, and no one else's.


I mean. She caused it, sure. But you played right along. Doing a bad thing for good reasons doesnt absolve you of guilt for complicity in actions. Thats what a lot of us horde players feel about Sylvanas atm. We dont want to be the faction that does what she's going to do, but we aint got a choice if we wanna play the characters we love.
05/11/2018 11:59 PMPosted by Dreven
SPOILER WARNING!!!

So this is Alliance War Campaign in Voldun where they kills innocent unarmed archeologists and exiles.
Alliance War Campaign: Blood on the Sand
Halford Wyrmbane: Sunwatcher is, as a member of the Reliquary, here on an archeological mission.
Shandris Feathermoon: Archaeology?
Halford Wyrmbane: Yes. Our intel suggests at least three excavations. I'd like to execute a synchronized incendiary attack on all of their excavations sites.

Reliquary is a non-military organization operated by mainly Blood Elves with the goal of freeing themselves from their magical addiction for good, by using powerful magical artifacts through controlled methods.

So Shandris Feathermoon and the player assassinates Goblins and a Blood Elf, who were all unarmed archaeologists of the Reliquary.

Then they go ahead and kill Zandalari exiles because they wanted their supplies. He justifies his action because Zandalari are all Horde, exiles or not. Do this guy even know the meaning of exiles? Is he aware that Void Elves, exiles, are in Alliance? They also blow-up all the Reliquary digsites and kill another Blood Elf who was in-charge of Reliquary in Vol'dun.

Why is attacking innocent, unarmed archaeologists primary goal of High Commander Halford Wyrmbane, leader of the 7th Legion?

SOURCE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=titccgT6QjU (at 14:44 you can see me gloriously dunking gnome)


Considering that the Alliance kick this whole war off by killing miners... seems to be in keeping with Anduin's leadership style.
05/12/2018 07:36 PMPosted by Elleteil
I mean, sure. But there was also the evidence he did it in response to the nobles stiffing him on payment and basically leaving the entire masons guild with no money to feed their families after all the work done rebuilding Stormwind. And then you guys kind of just took his head off after !@#$ing dancing around his corpse to go get your rewards while his daughter hid in the cabin.


Ooohhh! Crap!

I wonder why the horde, whenever it pulls the history of the Defias to speak as the ally is unjust, always neglects to mention how much lady katrana prestor was manipulating the house of the nobles not to fulfill the agreement and of how much she sabotaged any means of meet the complaints of the stonemason, as a way to cause instabilities in stormwind!

In the way they tell it, it seems to have been a natural act of Stormwind's authority and not the result of Lady Prestor's conspiracies!
After the death of Tiffin, Varian had no moral strength or willingness to deal with the case and Prestor began to take command.
Blizzard said that both sides would do bad stuff, but this really isn't enough to live up to that statement. Both sides have been killing each other's archaeologists for a long time. Still waiting to see what bad things Blizzard plans to have the Alliance do that are on the same scale as what they are making the Horde do.
05/12/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Teria
They aren't unarmed.
They have pick axes and shovels.


Ah yes. Those shovels will do a great deal against plate armor and fire magic. I'm sure they're truly a threat to us all!
05/12/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Stayinmylos
05/12/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Teria
They aren't unarmed.
They have pick axes and shovels.


Ah yes. Those shovels will do a great deal against plate armor and fire magic. I'm sure they're truly a threat to us all!
shovel knight confirmed
Alliance are not the good guys, that is BS.
Alliance has done a bunch of horrible stuff but so has the Horde, but who cares really? It makes for compelling story.

It would suck no matter which faction you are on if the faction did no wrong, it would be boring.
05/12/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Stayinmylos
05/12/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Teria
They aren't unarmed.
They have pick axes and shovels.


Ah yes. Those shovels will do a great deal against plate armor and fire magic. I'm sure they're truly a threat to us all!


Yes! Are! Ask Sylvannus!
Those farmers and fishermen in South coast, also had the same "tools" and because they were so threatening, she had to use the blight to kill them!

If your leader considers shovels and picks a threat large enough to use the Blight, then ally must also take energy measures against a threat of this size!
05/12/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Stayinmylos
05/12/2018 12:17 AMPosted by Teria
They aren't unarmed.
They have pick axes and shovels.


Ah yes. Those shovels will do a great deal against plate armor and fire magic. I'm sure they're truly a threat to us all!


WoW takes place in a world where automated turrets, rifles, cannons, mortars, spaceships. magical laser beams and plate armor all exist at the same time, yet everyone is somehow equal in their ability to damage each other.

You don't get to pull the realism card when you're grasping at straws to justify an Alliance "war crime," even more so when you're the faction of necromancy, WMD's and torturing prisoners of war on a massive scale.
05/12/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Arlindia
Alliance has done a bunch of horrible stuff

..Like? Every time people mention this, nobody can answer this question. What have the Alliance done that comes anywhere close to the things Horde has done?
05/12/2018 09:34 PMPosted by Cyrellis
..Like? Every time people mention this, nobody can answer this question. What have the Alliance done that comes anywhere close to the things Horde has done?

Rounded the defeated orcs up instead of committing genocide, as the orcs had done to the draenei. Being wiped out and thus not helping the high elves. Garithos. Err...

A lot of singular characters that nobody defends and, "could have been worse"'s.
Alliance attacks horde during a war time. That's not bad at all. Now, do we use their souls or life as a substance?

Horde attacks a kingdom's people that arent on the alliance's side. Horde treats it somehow comparable...
O my god

The amount of horde playing the victim in this thread is nauseating. Pointing out the crime of an opposing faction so you can ignore all the bad stuff your own people do? Get over yourselves. If you are just now realizing that both factions have ‘crimes’ on their hands in this 14 year old video game or 24 year old franchise then I don’t know what to tell you.
Well Worgen are said to be monstrous. So I'll gladly play that monster in exchange for Sethrek on Alliance and updated Worgen models.
I sincerely hope the Alliance does some Sylvanas-tier stuff, but this example is grasping at straws at best.

Hey, maybe we can get a Bronze Dragon to go back to AU Draenor too? Wouldn't mind slaying some Orcs with Yrel.

(Too bad this seems like it's going to be another Horde-exclusive lore development though.)
you know whats funny about all of this? (i mean, other than the circular nature of the arguments) is that the alliance keeps posting a claim that the horde never makes

alliance "how can you pretend to have the moral high ground when you..."
horde "who tf said anything about us being moral? we are just pointing out that the rotten corpse that is our morality is just as disgusting as your morality. neither of us are saints, but you certainly pretend to be.."
alliance "how can you act like your morally superior when you..."
horde "where are you getting your info from? we just said that we are both slime balls..."
alliance ...

argument continues forever

some points that crack me up. so people get pissed that the forsaken raise undead against their will. fair enough, that sucks. but why does no one get upset at the worlds burned by the space goats to aid in their own survival. in the moral arithmetic, it would seem that the survival of the light demons is far more costly than the survival of the forsaken, and yet somehow the forsaken are the bad guys?

also, theramore wasn't nuked to infinity...nice try though =)
05/12/2018 10:01 PMPosted by Djasie
"how can you pretend to have the moral high ground when you..."


The only pretending is you thinking this happens.

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