The state of Marksmanship

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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lol I forgot about this thread. weird how the spec with the most feedback in beta ended up being the least played spec.
Not weird at all. It's slow, clunky, sluggish, and has really bland azurite traits.

I play it because it's not TERRIBLE... and I can't tolerate melee or menagerie. And the content in BFA is, so far, pretty good. But... MM hunter is just... not in a good spot right now.
09/18/2018 09:40 PMPosted by Eleshakai
Not weird at all. It's slow, clunky, sluggish, and has really bland azurite traits.

I play it because it's not TERRIBLE... and I can't tolerate melee or menagerie. And the content in BFA is, so far, pretty good. But... MM hunter is just... not in a good spot right now.


I totally feel you mon` I wanted to play MM in PVP but since it's too clunky, slow and unimpactful, it's not ideal to use and doesn't have much going for it at the moment. Currently forced to play BM for maximum damage output (even though I'm not a big fan of the mechanics for BM spec)

It'll only be a matter of time before I decide to whether re-roll for a new class or just deal with the depression and inefficiency that MM's state is currently in.

Really hoping they would listen to the OP's suggestions since everything he has stated so far is true and definitely needs to be looked into.
Sad to say but they will likely do nothing.

Everyone's just migrated over to Survival or Beast Master and that's exactly how they want it. Who cares if people want to play without a pet, we're going to be cornholed into this role whether or not we like it.

We have devs that are so far divorced from our gameplay that it makes minimal difference how much we squawk about the rotation or how I can play with three fingers and half a lobotomy.

Why not make Trueshot actually matter? It's the least inspiring of all the DPS cooldowns I've seen; why can't it benefit our damage directly outside of a haste buff?

There was a post a while back (in this thread) about a dev rolling back Lone Wolf to 10% from 18% "Because people were complaining about the percentage" but I don't think that was meant to be permanent, [EDIT to add that he specifically stated that "There will be tuning." Where is it?]. The dev did some quick, contrived change and then just left MM to rot. And let's not talk about how MM gets shafted for utility for god-knows-why. Why am I not allowed to have my pet's ability when I dismiss it, why am I cornholed into a DR? That's not a meaningful choice.

I just can't really fathom why MM gets such bad passes at simple rotational and interactive gameplay mechanics. Make Trueshot give us insta-cast Aimed Shot for the duration, adjust the damage if you must; that alone adds more depth to our gameplay. Give us Tranq Shot back! It was there in beta! Who said to remove it?! There's literally no reason to remove it other than to force everyone to go BM to get it. Let us have the option of dismissing our pet for their special ability OR the passive buff; you can even make that a talent et voila, an interesting choice!

There have been pages and pages and pages of more talented and detailed feedback than what I am willing to produce. The fact remains that we have been unequivocally and abjectly ignored.

Someone seriously dropped the ball on MM and nobody is coming forth to take responsibility for their decisions and iterate further on the design. I would very much like the development team to interface with us on this issue and get my favorite spec fixed.
whoa whoa whoa indomitous don't mistake my intent. I love my pet. I would NEVER play a hunter without a pet. Pets are such a core and integral part of the class dating back so many years and I am so glad MM has them. (Just to clarify - I do not have an issue with the option to be petless existing, but I do not want to partake of such an option myself)

However... pets are supposed to be your companion - your friend. Not a meaningless weapon you throw at your enemy. BM is a menagerie spec that is built on a swarm of beasts they care nothing about that they use as little more than animated weapons. That's why I hate it. Not that I want to be petless.
09/19/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Eleshakai
whoa whoa whoa indomitous don't mistake my intent. I love my pet. I would NEVER play a hunter without a pet. Pets are such a core and integral part of the class dating back so many years and I am so glad MM has them. (Just to clarify - I do not have an issue with the option to be petless existing, but I do not want to partake of such an option myself)

However... pets are supposed to be your companion - your friend. Not a meaningless weapon you throw at your enemy. BM is a menagerie spec that is built on a swarm of beasts they care nothing about that they use as little more than animated weapons. That's why I hate it. Not that I want to be petless.


uhh have you played BM in bfa? the zoo keeper dire beast spam is gone, it's just you and your pet now. i actually think BM is the best it's been in a long time.
You and I have different definitions of 'just you and your pet'(however this isn't the place to argue BM), but I'm really glad you're liking BM.
Just unsub honestly. It’s what I did until this is fixed.
I think this is your (MM hunters in general here not anyone specific) penance for saying that BM deserved to be dumpster tier cause it was easy. Sucks now that you're marginally less complicated than BM, exactly like BM was marginally less complicated than MM in Legion and that was the excuse that the damage difference was justified, doesn't it?
FIX MM FIX MM FIX MM FIX MM FIX MM FIX MM FIX MM
09/19/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Nyhlia
I think this is your (MM hunters in general here not anyone specific) penance for saying that BM deserved to be dumpster tier cause it was easy. Sucks now that you're marginally less complicated than BM, exactly like BM was marginally less complicated than MM in Legion and that was the excuse that the damage difference was justified, doesn't it?


Not many said things like that, most of us just wanted our class to be fun. Which it hasn't been since what... Mists?
I gave up MM in Beta and started my Hunter as BM after hitting 330 ilevel on a Blood DK and Veng DH.

I can pull just as much as them while doing more dps while being 100% mobile. With cc and traps from warmode plus pet management and using chimera I have enough buttons to satisfy me.

It's actually quite fun, not WoD MM fun or even Mop Surv, but it's good.
I gave up MM in Beta and started my Hunter as BM after hitting 330 ilevel on a Blood DK and Veng DH.

I can pull just as much as them while doing more dps while being 100% mobile. With cc and traps from warmode plus pet management and using chimera I have enough buttons to satisfy me.

It's actually quite fun, not WoD MM fun or even Mop Surv, but it's good.


THAT is the part I don't understand, MM has to not move to do its damage and get punished if they have to move YET we have a BM hunter jumping around doing damage equal OR more then a MM hunter due to uptime and more tools.

WUT? THE CLASS that has to NOT move does less damage to one that is mobile.
my Request for MM for the nth time:
1) a more interesting rotation, removing rapid fire would be a start since you literally never use it in single target pve. We all knew it was too hard to balance in the rotation (either insanely OP or completely useless).

2) A way to self set up traps, MM lacks stuns but I think we should get something like trackers net or scatter shot off DR of trap. MM used to be about roots (entrapment on frost trap and improved wing clip) so we could get distance and hold people down to do damage. I think MM core competency should be preventing enemies from LoS and good CC (self set up traps). Our weakness has always been easy to kill but hard to train (similar to a frost mage but less tanky more mobile). After MoP we lost almost a decade of refinement on this playstyle. No idea why it was thrown away but it hasn’t allowed hunters to have a defined niche.

We all want to play MM more than anything, but the current iteration is unable to be played in PvP and boring in PvE. BM can output the same damage single target and significantly more damage in AoE.
09/19/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Eleshakai
whoa whoa whoa indomitous don't mistake my intent. I love my pet. I would NEVER play a hunter without a pet. Pets are such a core and integral part of the class dating back so many years and I am so glad MM has them. (Just to clarify - I do not have an issue with the option to be petless existing, but I do not want to partake of such an option myself)


I mean, that's great and all, but for the last two expansions Lone Wolf has been the defining aspect of Marksman. If you would like to play with a pet, good on you, but there are those of us (like me) who despise pet AI.

Twice already there have been problems in the current raid with pets; the first being at Taloc, you have to dismiss your pet and then call it again to get it on the elevator. Why? Because the pathing sucks.

On the stairs leading down to Zul, if you even place a toe on those stairs after you start combat, the pet will bolt out of the arena and drag all the mobs in its wake as it tries to path up the opposite side to get back to you. Because the pathing sucks.

I actually don't mind a pet in the overworld, but in raid it can be more of a liability. You can see right now that I'm playing BM because MM is nowhere near reliable enough to warrant my playing it.

If we can make the damage and utility exchange congruent between having a pet and going without, that's the sweet spot.

This is, obviously, ignoring the glaring holes in the rotation and the fact that one of our highest damage shots is also a generator. I'm just floored at how the devs could ignore all the feedback we've given so far. And more than a little sad. I miss my mobile solo-archer and sorely want it back.
09/20/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Eddyv
After MoP we lost almost a decade of refinement on this playstyle.
I like and agree with the rest of your post, but this statement confounds me. And you are not the only person to say such things.

WoD lost zero mobility from MoP. In fact, because Aimed Shot while moving was baseline in WoD, that freed up a glyph slot. In that free glyph slot I put Glyph of Disengage which increased my mobility by a substantial amount, especially since I also had Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera. WoD was the MOST mobile we have ever been.

I have asked people before why they think this about WoD MM, and it has inevitably come down to them not actually PLAYING MM during WoD. Most (maybe all) who say such things played SV. So they simply don't know and are going by what others have said.

WoD was awesome for MM, at least in PvP. I didn't do PvE in WoD, only PvP, but I did a LOT of PvP. In that environment, MM was amazing. The amount of mobility, control, and on demand burst was empowering and fun.

I am not saying there was nothing wrong with it. The "prune" was annoying. I lost some cool, unique and situational abilities such as Scatter Shot and Scare Beast. The loss of especially Scare Beast was really annoying because it was an arbitrary and senseless loss of fun and skill. The loss of Scatter Shot while more fundamental, was also not as impacting in a way, since everyone lost CC. We still had enough left to feel sufficient.

I just wish people would stop downplaying MM in WoD. There was never a more mobile MM.
All i ask from you, watcher, or whoever is in charge of this spec:
Go backwards. this spec is in shambles, go back to mop or even wod, and start from scratch. your legion and bfa designs have failed. This is definitely one of those times where you have to go back to your roots to fix a problem.
bump
So the 8.1 ptr notes have hit and nothing much for MM hunters which is a disappointment to say the least.

Can MM at least get something in adjustments to azerite traits or to any abilities to redistribute damage in a way that makes for a better flow for MM.
09/21/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Stripendella
So the 8.1 ptr notes have hit and nothing much for MM hunters which is a disappointment to say the least.

Can MM at least get something in adjustments to azerite traits or to any abilities to redistribute damage in a way that makes for a better flow for MM.


If Blizzard conducted an internal SWOT analysis I think they would find that communication with players is one of their biggest weaknesses. Hunters have received no feedback since the current threads blue post.

It is important more now than ever that MM gets fixed because the old school players will not play survival no matter how good it is, and BM is just plain boring and prone to nerfs in Pvp. Being limited to one spec will not be enough for these players to stay entertained, and I doubt they will continue paying for subscriptions.

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