The state of Marksmanship

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Someone on Discord pointed important things:

- No utility
- Limited by movement
- No two target cleave
- Capped AoE
- Needs to pick between ST or AOE
- Extremely reliant on Azirite trait
- Ignoring half of the rotation for ST
- Pet is better for ST, but switching is punishing since LW has ramptime
I came to the forums as a last ditch effort to make a post about MM hunters and the plight that we face on what was once my and I'm sure many other's beloved spec.

I have watched all these class tunings pass by with no real fix for MM Hunters. Not only that, while other classes have been passed on the tuning patches, they have been mentioned as needing heavier changes such as shamans. Yet there has been no mention of MM Hunters.

My personal experience is that, while playing MM, I feel sluggish, overly punished for having to move(aka all raid encounters ever designed), under-performing, and unrewarded for excellent execution.

So what are we left with? Changing specs to not drag down our groups or sit out with our fellow mail wearers.

In the past we have been fixed with Tier bonuses. You don't have that luxury now Blizz. Fix us.
I might only raid casually, but I still try to hold myself to a decent standard as a longtime player and member of a raid team. I feel like a jerk running MM knowing I could contribute more as BM/Surv, but MM is the spec I really want to play.

I feel like a lot of this stress could be alleviated by either taking a closer look at how often Aimed Shot is allowed to be instant cast/cast while moving, or by tying things to other abilities (maybe give Rapid Fire a little love). I'd also like to feel like aoe was more viable for Cleaving, as opposed to waiting for 3+ targets because my aoe procs won't work without a mob.
Quit. Giving. Them. Your. Money.
Blizzard, we need a new blue. What happened to the LW damage buff u mentioned ages ago, 10% would not be the final state of it, right? Also forums are overload with different ideas and new talents, skills, builds, everything you need to fix MM, and im talking about real feedback from veteran hunters like me whom have mained this class for a lot of years non stop. Is just up to you to hear your player database and communicate with us.

Please, if you trust in sim better than players, theres a lot of numbers out there yelling at you that MM is currently in the bottom, and the only way to go out from there is using Steady Aim trait, but, thats not good design right? Thats not what u said in countless Q&A and responses, class fantasy, well, now we dont have fantasy, nor damage, nor good mechanics, nothing.

So please, stop this madness and help us. Look at me, i had to play BM because i wasnt gettin invited to anything as MM and it FEELSBADMAN.
MM needs work bad, becoming/is a dead spec
Scatter needs to change dr trees. This one HAS to be done.

A combination of some of the below suggestions could be looked at:

Rangers finesse and trueshot mastery need to go. They are designed around the last iteration of mm and currently have no real use case.

Consider replacing one of them with readiness. Readiness should be 5m cooldown and reset the cooldown of cheetah, exhilaration, and turtle.

Consider adding back the pvp talent that modified bursting shot, and make it give a root.

Consider replacing the current iteration of explosive shot to something like the old sv explosive shot ability. Consider making piercing shot a single target ability that gives an armor pen debuff for a few seconds. These two are hand in hand in that they’re currently ineffective, and their slots could act like ebonbolt and comet storm for frost mage: supplement an otherwise minimalistic base kit with some variety.

Consider drastically reducing the cooldown of trueshot, or give it some secondary benefit to warrant its long cooldown.
As I have said it before, my top 3 MM hunter issues are Trueshot, Precise shot and current lethal shot talent (where it promotes steady shot spamming).
I mean it would really be nice just to get some acknowledgement from a dev...
10/03/2018 07:18 AMPosted by Illandren
I mean it would really be nice just to get some acknowledgement from a dev...


Acknowledgement from a dev is definitely great.

But have you seen the response a dev got when 'acknowledgement' is made? The response to the 'acknowledgement' quickly turned into personal insults and attacks.

Does Blizz need to step up their communication? I believe they need to. But at the same time, I actually feel bad for them that they have to endure all the personal insults and attacks. Would you try to talk to anyone in real life if you know in the end all you get is personal insults?
MM is one of the least played specs on all content. The "rework" was not asked by anyone, Legion MM was fine, it just needed some adjusts.

I don't understand why they have to rework MM all the time. On Legion the rotation was fluid and fun, and now the RNG continues but the rotation is horrible and hollow.
10/03/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Kholdo
The "rework" was not asked by anyone, Legion MM was fine, it just needed some adjusts.


I guess you missed the part where a lot of people were not happy, including me, with how the MM vulnerable mechanic worked in Legion.
Here some ideas to fix MM.

1.- Abilities:

- Scatter Shot off the GCD with Freezin Trap.
- Bursting Shot roots the target for 3 seconds (instead of slow)
- Exihilaration CD changed from 2 to 1 minute (just compare it to other selfhealings like Crimson Vial)
- Increases Aimed Shot charges by 1 making a total of 3, each one on a permanent 15 sec CD (CD doesnt reduces with haste)
- Increase Lone Wolf damage buff to 15%
- Delete Precise Shots, instead, buff Arcane and Multishot baseline damage. Decreases Aimed Shot damage to compensate.
- Change True Shot: Gives 20% increased damage and regenerates 5 focus every 3 seconds during its duration. 2 Minutes CD.
- Replace Rapid Fire with an instant hard hittin shot like the old Chimaera. It can be Windburst: Windburst: 15 sec CD, instant, cost 30 focus, hit a little bit harder than Aimed Shot, deals nature damage. Puts a DoT on the target, dealing XXX nature damage over 7 seconds.
- As we dont have Rapid Fire anymore, Steady Shot has to be improved. Let it be 1,2 sec cast time base, regenerates 15 focus each shot.
- Camouflage baseline for MM but this version dont have the healing effect. The CD starts as soon as you enter into camo, just like the old version.

2.- Talents:

- Delete Murder of Crows, move Serpent Sting to Tier 30 talents and buff it, increasing dot duration to 15 secs and buff damage by 10%. Increase focus cost by 5.
- Delete Carefull Aim talent and replace it with WoD Killshot version.
- Increase Volley Talent proc chance to 20% of autoattack and increase its damage by 10%.
- Replace Explosive Shot with the old version mechanic. Differences: Still on a 30 sec CD, direct damage (not skill shot), tics for 3 secs on your target and deals damage to all enemies in 8 yards.
- Change 2 out of 3 lvl 100 talents. Keep Lock and Load but increase the proc chance up to 10%. One of the new lvl 100 talents can be Fast and Deadly: Increases your Windburst range by 10 yards and Windburst also reduces que healing received by the target by 15% for 7 seconds (doesnt stack with other similar effects)
-Replace Piercing Shot talent with Desperate Resource talent. Desperate Resource: During Trueshot you are now able to Cast Aimed Shot while moving and its damage is increased by 25%.
- Replace Streamline talent with New Careful Aim: Every succesfull Aimed Shot reduces the cast time of your next Aimed Shot by 15%, this effect stacks up to 3 times, buff lasts for 60 secs.
-Replace Steady Focus talent with Sniper Determination talent. Sniper Determination: Your Aimed Shot and Windburst crits has a chance to increase your Haste by 10% for 10 seconds. (This effect doesn’t stack)
- Buff Hunters Mark. Off the GCD, increase amount of focus regenerated if target dies by 10 (30 total).
- Delete Double Tap and Lethal Shots talents, move Volley and new explosive shot to that tier.
- In the lvl 30 Tier add, along with Kill shot and Serpent Sting, Black Arrow. Black Arrow: fires an arrow empowered by shadow magic to your target, dealing XXX shadow damage over 20 seconds and increasing the all magic damage done by the caster hunter by 5% over its duration. Cost 30 focus, 30 sec CD.
- In the 15 tier talent, along with Master Marksman, add Double Impact and Focus Fire talents.
Double Impact: Your succesfull arcane shots and your successful Windburst has a 5% chance of hiting a second time, dealing 50% of the initial damage.
Focus Fire talent: Your autoshots have a 10% chance to increase your attack speed by 30% for 5 secs.

3.- PvP Talents:

- Replace Rangers Fineese with Mending Bandage.
- For MM, replaces Spider Sting with Silencing Shot. Silencing Shot: A quick shot that silences your target by 3 secs. If the target was casting a spell, the silence time is increased to 4 seconds. (doesn’t deal damage).
10/03/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Murdershot
Here some ideas to fix MM.

1.- Abilities:

- Scatter Shot off the GCD with Freezin Trap.
- Bursting Shot roots the target for 3 seconds (instead of slow)
- Exihilaration CD changed from 2 to 1 minute (just compare it to other selfhealings like Crimson Vial)
- Increases Aimed Shot charges by 1 making a total of 3, each one on a permanent 15 sec CD (CD doesnt reduces with haste)
- Increase Lone Wolf damage buff to 15%
- Delete Precise Shots, instead, buff Arcane and Multishot baseline damage. Decreases Aimed Shot damage to compensate.
- Change True Shot: Gives 20% increased damage and regenerates 5 focus every 3 seconds during its duration. 2 Minutes CD.
- Replace Rapid Fire with an instant hard hittin shot like the old Chimaera. It can be Windburst: Windburst: 15 sec CD, instant, cost 30 focus, hit a little bit harder than Aimed Shot, deals nature damage. Puts a DoT on the target, dealing XXX nature damage over 7 seconds.
- As we dont have Rapid Fire anymore, Steady Shot has to be improved. Let it be 1,2 sec cast time base, regenerates 15 focus each shot.
- Camouflage baseline for MM but this version dont have the healing effect. The CD starts as soon as you enter into camo, just like the old version.

2.- Talents:

- Delete Murder of Crows, move Serpent Sting to Tier 30 talents and buff it, increasing dot duration to 15 secs and buff damage by 10%. Increase focus cost by 5.
- Delete Carefull Aim talent and replace it with WoD Killshot version.
- Increase Volley Talent proc chance to 20% of autoattack and increase its damage by 10%.
- Replace Explosive Shot with the old version mechanic. Differences: Still on a 30 sec CD, direct damage (not skill shot), tics for 3 secs on your target and deals damage to all enemies in 8 yards.
- Change 2 out of 3 lvl 100 talents. Keep Lock and Load but increase the proc chance up to 10%. One of the new lvl 100 talents can be Fast and Deadly: Increases your Windburst range by 10 yards and Windburst also reduces que healing received by the target by 15% for 7 seconds (doesnt stack with other similar effects)
-Replace Piercing Shot talent with Desperate Resource talent. Desperate Resource: During Trueshot you are now able to Cast Aimed Shot while moving and its damage is increased by 25%.
- Replace Streamline talent with New Careful Aim: Every succesfull Aimed Shot reduces the cast time of your next Aimed Shot by 15%, this effect stacks up to 3 times, buff lasts for 60 secs.
-Replace Steady Focus talent with Sniper Determination talent. Sniper Determination: Your Aimed Shot and Windburst crits has a chance to increase your Haste by 10% for 10 seconds. (This effect doesn’t stack)
- Buff Hunters Mark. Off the GCD, increase amount of focus regenerated if target dies by 10 (30 total).
- Delete Double Tap and Lethal Shots talents, move Volley and new explosive shot to that tier.
- In the lvl 30 Tier add, along with Kill shot and Serpent Sting, Black Arrow. Black Arrow: fires an arrow empowered by shadow magic to your target, dealing XXX shadow damage over 20 seconds and increasing the all magic damage done by the caster hunter by 5% over its duration. Cost 30 focus, 30 sec CD.
- In the 15 tier talent, along with Master Marksman, add Double Impact and Focus Fire talents.
Double Impact: Your succesfull arcane shots and your successful Windburst has a 5% chance of hiting a second time, dealing 50% of the initial damage.
Focus Fire talent: Your autoshots have a 10% chance to increase your attack speed by 30% for 5 secs.

3.- PvP Talents:

- Replace Rangers Fineese with Mending Bandage.
- For MM, replaces Spider Sting with Silencing Shot. Silencing Shot: A quick shot that silences your target by 3 secs. If the target was casting a spell, the silence time is increased to 4 seconds. (doesn’t deal damage).


Pretty much all of that sounds awful. blizz, I already know you aren't listening, but if you ever decide to start, ignore this poster.
hey Blizz look at what a friend went through the other day
Quote

"Thoorin6 hr 8 min ago (Patch 8.1.0)ReportQuoteReply
Zombby said:
I guess MM was not in the fourth quartile that they thought needed a little uplift.
I'm not surprised. Nobody is playing the spec anymore - I saw someone kicked from a pug when they got inspected and found out to be MM. That's probably going too far, but speaks volumes how the spec is received.

I absolutely hate maintenance specs like BM, but just switching specs, without even optimizing gear and training for a while, bumped my output by 20%. Same gear, same itemization I had for MM, just a different spec.

That means MM is broken beyond redemption. I find the AoE burst particularly weak, if you concentrate on single-target. I admitted to hating BM, and juggling maintenance on both frenzy and beast cleave is just plain annoying due to the randomness involved in being able (or not) to refresh, but at least it does the job done. "

Listen bliss we r getting kicked out because of how bad the spec is! It happened to me too. I dont want to play BM - have u ever seen a real ranger commanding animals to attack? NO I want to be a dude with a bow and deadly arrows please fix the sepc. I will not give up on MM and I believe you guys can fix us pls do something
Looks like a alot of damage hotfixes went out today

MM no where to be found, but lots of other under performing classes got huge buffs

Feels bad man...

(MM rework coming since damage buffs would just add gas to the dumpster fire?)
10/03/2018 07:27 AMPosted by Airese
Does Blizz need to step up their communication? I believe they need to. But at the same time, I actually feel bad for them that they have to endure all the personal insults and attacks. Would you try to talk to anyone in real life if you know in the end all you get is personal insults?


There are always going to be people that throw insults. There are kids and immature people that play this game as well as the level headed folks. There are plenty of valid questions that need to be addressed here. Th funny thing is, the longer you freeze out your community the more the level headed people start leaning toward the immature side of things.
Didn't think any spec could be worse than my Elemental Shaman in PvP.

...

I was wrong.
Another PTR with no changes. Oh dear.
So we are limited to melee spec in pvp and a pet spec in pve, very nice.

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