The state of Marksmanship

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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Wow 12% increase to arcane and major nerfs to everything else. Removed the bonus damage of the first aim shot, lowered the bonus damage of the secondary shots and the master marksman damage 50% nerf. We will now be the bottom of dps easily and the spec will play even more like !@#$. Oh but they increased multi by 7% call the press.... idiots need to be fired period.
I liked the changes, no more heavily RNG dependent, its a great start
THEY FIXED EXPLOSIVE SHOT
Glad to see something actually come out for the spec!

I would still like to see PvP/control addressed, and I think careful aim and barrage still need to swap spots, but overall, these are at least positive changes and that is a good thing to see. Adding two seconds to bursting shot snare isn't really gonna do much.
10/17/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Myras
THEY FIXED EXPLOSIVE SHOT

Thirty second CD.
Good QoL changes to trueshot, careful aim, and explosive shot. The change to lethal shots will get rid of the two button rotation. Don't think precise shots needed a nerf.

Here's what we still need:
  • Lone wolf buffs. No pet should always out-dps pet.
  • Utility. Let us change our lone wolf ability to master's call/lust. Give us tranq shot.
  • Talent tuning/fixes. Piercing shot needs a massive buff, serpent sting should beat crows by a mile. Too big of a distinction between AoE talents and single target talents. Could make explosive shot competitive in single target fights now that it isn't a MOBA skillshot.
  • Trick shot changes. Very awkward to use, have to hope a pack is grouped enough to AoE them. Zero cleave on two targets.
  • Good to see work is being done and I see the logic behind some of these changes but honestly looks like a nerf overall so far for PvE, from the Steady Aim build (the only build that did somewhat relevant damage at all). And MM is already bottom of the barrel for raids and mythic+.

    Mechanically, it looks better of course as it promotes using more abilities, but I'm not seeing the numbers. All MM damage was in Lethal Shots Steady Aim, that got gutted, where is it coming from now? Almost all these changes outside Lethal Shot nerf (killing the Steady Aim build) and Trueshot buff are quality of life/RNG changes rather than number buffs to offset nerfing the only viable build.

    New Rapid Fire trait is probably going to be required 2-3x now instead of Steady Aim, and we'll do less damage overall probably? Building a spec around a required azerite trait is bad. If we're just going from a Steady Aim required spec to a Sharpshooter required spec, that's sad. Baseline Rapid Fire needs to be buffed heavily (instead of new Azerite trait) for these changes to make sense. Also new Lethal Shots still looks problematic... are we going to just spam arcane shots instead now to try to get Rapid Fire resets?

    Baseline AoE still looks weak. Explosive Shot QoL change is kinda irrelevant when Careful Aim is better and is also getting QoL change. Having to sacrifice big ST talents just to do mediocre AoE is just not viable in mythic+ and almost all raid encounters, especially when execute is often very important. Why not just swap Barrage and Careful Aim positions in the tree and then balance appropriately?

    The good news is though, numbers can still change. These changes look like they make it easier for them to just then buff numbers till they aren't poop anymore. Hopefully..

    PS- MM still looks bottom tier for mythic+. Weak baseline aoe and still way less utility and survivability than BM, especially if you want to use Lone Wolf.
    This shows that they are looking at the spec and recognize the need for changes. I feel like they'll give a flat damage buff if needed.
    10/17/2018 12:57 PMPosted by Myras
    THEY FIXED EXPLOSIVE SHOT
    Hopefully a good sign. Now we just need a way to get Black Arrow & LnL back in a meaningful way.
    The changes are very good but the class stills needs work. ainly on Lone Wolf and the AoE/ST Damage.

    But I'm happy, it shows that they didn't forgot MM.
    Okay, bear with me, but I think these changes are fantastic, and here's why:

    1) It's not a numbers buff.
    Yes, if the patch went live tomorrow as it stands, we would be in the gutter. It's not going to do that though, because these aren't tuning changes! These are actual gameplay changes, addressing some of the issues at the core of the spec. Not all of them certainly, but some.

    2) If you look closely, you can see the design decisions.
    Some were obviously just quick QoL changes, like explosive shot (don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled about it not getting stuck on a pebble anymore), but some go deeper. Especially the changes to Lethal Shots and Trueshot. Their focus on rapid fire leads me to believe they have something in mind for RF coming, I just hope it's more than the Azerite traits, as that would not feel good. Lethal shots now has more value in AoE too, which is a nice benefit. And it opens up space for doubletap to be used, which is interesting. More talent diversity is nice, but one of the complaints is having to chose between AOE and ST, and it being difficult to balance the two for something like M+. Still, it's a good start.

    3) RNG has been dialed back
    Wow, this is one of my favourite bits. There are still big RNG elements of course, I don't expect any class will have those removed entirely, but the Careful Aim change is a welcome one. Combined with the change to Lethal Shots, and I think we'll have much more consistent damage ST.
    What I would love to see is an Aspect passive buff that gives you the same buff you would if you had the pet out (similar to the old paladin auras, but self only - not party obviously)

    Like :
    Aspect of ferocity gives you lust / leech
    Aspect of tenacity gives you the defensive cd / stam buff
    Aspect of cunning gives you the speed boost / dodge cd

    Put a 6 minute CD so you can't keep swapping between aspects

    Nothing more frustrating than me applying to a group and they ask "can you bring a heroism pet?" and I reply "I'm marksman" and get "declined" lol

    Least if i could click "Aspect of Ferocity" at the start of a dungeon run and could give the group hero, it'd be nice
    They still need to remove the cap on our AOE or buff it alot >_>
    Lethal shots needs to be changed to reduces CD of rapid fire by 1.5 seconds.

    No rng !@#$.
    10/17/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Verenor
    Nothing more frustrating than me applying to a group and they ask "can you bring a heroism pet?" and I reply "I'm marksman" and get "declined" lol


    Uh, I do that all the time. If I need to hero, I'll bring out my Bat. Otherwise, it's no pet for AoE, and pet for ST. If I have to keep the bat out in AoE for lust, meh, it's not a tremendous loss, but it still kinda bites. Lone wolf needs work still.
    Good to see change in the data mining. Needs a tune, that's for sure. Explosive, Trueshot, Careful Aim and Lethal Shots changes are all very welcome.

    AoE still needs serious attention. The cap of 3 targets to activate is an issue, and quite frankly not need at all! Just have it always activated on Multi Shot (if the Devs are hell bent on keeping the mechanic).

    This will allow for two target cleave while allowing the player to not be frustrated with buggy activations in the first place (ie: not hitting the required 3 targets).
    10/17/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Nemme
    I liked the changes, no more heavily RNG dependent, its a great start
    Agreed,

    I like the new Trueshot change. They should've baked the 50% damage bonus into AiS though.

    Edit: HOLY !@#$ THEY REMOVED THE RNG ON CAREFUL AIM AND CHANGED EXPLOSIVE SHOT, GAWDDAMN.

    Really though, They should just go ahead and replace CA with Barrage so it'll just be Barrage, ES, and Volley on that tree. CA being paired with these makes no sense even if AiS does have cleave potential. While I'm happy they increased the proc on Volley, it still gonna be horrible. I'm gonna miss with LS crits though but it was a pain in the !@# spamming SS and it didn't pop up when I was at SA cap.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, LS will no doubt be the best for M+. LS and Sharpshooter both affect RF by lowering or resetting the CD respectively. There's a possibility MM will have better performance in M+ when 8.1 hits.
    10/17/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Shadøw
    10/17/2018 12:47 PMPosted by Nemme
    I liked the changes, no more heavily RNG dependent, its a great start
    Agreed,

    I like the new Trueshot change. They should've baked the 50% damage bonus into AiS though.

    Edit: HOLY !@#$ THEY REMOVED THE RNG ON CAREFUL AIM AND CHANGED EXPLOSIVE SHOT, GAWDDAMN.

    Really though, They should just go ahead and replace CA with Barrage so it'll just be Barrage, ES, and Volley on that tree. CA being paired with these makes no sense even if AiS does have cleave potential. While I'm happy they increased the proc on Volley, it still gonna be horrible. I'm gonna miss with LS crits though but it was a pain in the !@# spamming SS and it didn't pop up when I was at SA cap.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, LS will no doubt be the best for M+. LS and Sharpshooter both affect RF by lowering or resetting the CD respectively. There's a possibility MM will have better performance in M+ when 8.1 hits.


    When would you ever cast aimed shot though if you take lethal shots.

    Seems to me MM went from spamming steady shot to cast better aimshots to spamming arcane shots to lower the CD on rapid fire.

    Am I missing something other than now we will be focused starved?
    10/17/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Mofuggas
    10/17/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Shadøw
    ...Agreed,

    I like the new Trueshot change. They should've baked the 50% damage bonus into AiS though.

    Edit: HOLY !@#$ THEY REMOVED THE RNG ON CAREFUL AIM AND CHANGED EXPLOSIVE SHOT, GAWDDAMN.

    Really though, They should just go ahead and replace CA with Barrage so it'll just be Barrage, ES, and Volley on that tree. CA being paired with these makes no sense even if AiS does have cleave potential. While I'm happy they increased the proc on Volley, it still gonna be horrible. I'm gonna miss with LS crits though but it was a pain in the !@# spamming SS and it didn't pop up when I was at SA cap.

    Now that I'm thinking about it, LS will no doubt be the best for M+. LS and Sharpshooter both affect RF by lowering or resetting the CD respectively. There's a possibility MM will have better performance in M+ when 8.1 hits.


    When would you ever cast aimed shot though if you take lethal shots.

    Seems to me MM went from spamming steady shot to cast better aimshots to spamming arcane shots to lower the CD on rapid fire.

    Am I missing something other than now we will be focused starved?


    Seriously. don't whine. we got improvements.
    10/17/2018 06:31 PMPosted by Lekai
    10/17/2018 06:16 PMPosted by Mofuggas
    ...

    When would you ever cast aimed shot though if you take lethal shots.

    Seems to me MM went from spamming steady shot to cast better aimshots to spamming arcane shots to lower the CD on rapid fire.

    Am I missing something other than now we will be focused starved?


    Seriously. don't whine. we got improvements.


    What are they?

    I guess we are more mobile cause we rely on rapid fire instead of aimed shot but at the cost of being focus starved.

    The point was to make MM not a 2 button spec relying on a azerite trait.

    We are still exactly that just replace steady aim with sharpshooter steady shot with arcane shot and aimed shot with rapid fire.

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