[Feedback] Fury Warrior: Rotation & Talents

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05/31/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Slowmotion
Maybe Siegebreaker could apply a 10 second debuff that causes Bloodthirst to have a 1.5 second shorter cooldown when used on that target, or Raging Blow has significantly higher chance to reset on use on that target. The rest of the tier seems to be cooldown based rage generation increases and this would be a window that changes the rotation a bit rather than a flat c-smash damage window.


I really like your idea of the Raging blow effect alot better than just a damage window increase.
05/31/2018 07:04 AMPosted by Bróxis
For those who worry about cs windows. Do you not consider enrage a cs window?


This is one of the reasons why i hate the CS window.... we already have one. Having 2 is just terrible in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, seeing how people love the CS playstyle as fury i think they should keep the talent but Blizzard needs too make sure the other talents do just as well in Fury's overall dps so for those of us who dont like that playstyle can choose one of the other talents and still do just as much dmg. My fear is that it will just outperform the other talents on the tree.
I think the biggest issue with seigebreaker is that it’s 30 sec CD and 20% damage for 10 secs cs avatar that was 1.5 min CD and 30% damage for 20 seconds.
Now looking it seems a bit too strong. Maybe a simple empowers the next 2 attacks to do 100% more damage, 45 sec CD.

There are better options and I do like a cs based attack but not if it’s too strong. Maybe something more random and less calculated is better... a proc
I agree, if Siegbreaker is too strong, it'll force everyone into that talent and make the other options pointless/useless.
@Sybalicblast. Fair point.

05/31/2018 09:23 AMPosted by Ryuku
I think the biggest issue with seigebreaker is that it’s 30 sec CD and 20% damage for 10 secs cs avatar that was 1.5 min CD and 30% damage for 20 seconds.
Now looking it seems a bit too strong. Maybe a simple empowers the next 2 attacks to do 100% more damage, 45 sec CD.

There are better options and I do like a cs based attack but not if it’s too strong. Maybe something more random and less calculated is better... a proc


Having SB empower your next two spells is interesting.
So i would say your next two rampages deal x% more dmg, and have 50% increased crit chance. 30 sec cd grants 10 rage.

Here is were i differ from you Ryuku. Fury has enough procs as is. So personally want to stay away from more procs.
05/31/2018 09:42 AMPosted by Bróxis
Here is were i differ from you Ryuku. Fury has enough procs as is. So personally want to stay away from more procs.
I tend to agree with this. Seigebreaker, could easily be replaced or changed into a talent that makes one of our existing attacks, (most likely Rampage or Raging Blow) apply a bleed to the targets (like our current 2 set bonus does for Rampage now) - keeps in theme with the other talents in the row & while still being different from them & not giving us another CD or proc to manage.
Seem like interesting changes pending numbers (and haste values)

Now to the good stuff, what about 1 handers/fist weapon transmog ability for fury!
05/31/2018 02:05 AMPosted by Protege
I completely disagree about the Dragon Roar/Bloodbath point, though. I think Seph laid out very good points as to why Bloodbath shouldn't be a talent (terrible to have extra GCD ability, having it modify Reck is just Reckless Abandon 2.0, etc). Dragon Roar being our new Odyn's Fury is a good choice.

To be fair, I did specifically say "even if it does the same thing [as Dragon Roar]". My argument was more from a sense of thematics, that Dragon Roar is the odd ability out; Dragons aren't represented anywhere within the theme of the spec, whereas Bloodbath (even if it were simply direct damage without any DoT component whatsoever, exactly the same as Dragon Roar) is a better fit.

Wholly personal of course. I just like the idea of hitting things with my weapons more yelling at enemies until they die.


Fair point. Even still, I believe that screaming at the top of your lungs is part of the Fury theme, on top of angrily flinging your weapons around. Fury should just be a rabid dog that you don't want to be in front of. Just my opinion.
05/31/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Darklonfury
Seem like interesting changes pending numbers (and haste values)

Now to the good stuff, what about 1 handers/fist weapon transmog ability for fury!


See there is a nice alternative to Siege Breaker and the damage window we don't really need more of. Give us Single Minded Fury as a talent instead. I am sure that can be balance on the row just with increased attack speed from lighter weapons to do competitive damage with the other options in the row.

Just worry it could be too good if not monitored and become the go to talent once we get too much haste. Even with that I would rather have that instead of Siege Breaker.
05/31/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Gryph
05/31/2018 09:51 AMPosted by Darklonfury
Seem like interesting changes pending numbers (and haste values)

Now to the good stuff, what about 1 handers/fist weapon transmog ability for fury!


See there is a nice alternative to Siege Breaker and the damage window we don't really need more of. Give us Single Minded Fury as a talent instead. I am sure that can be balance on the row just with increased attack speed from lighter weapons to do competitive damage with the other options in the row.

Just worry it could be too good if not monitored and become the go to talent once we get too much haste. Even with that I would rather have that instead of Siege Breaker.


They can't (and shouldn't) do this.

Let's say they make SMF a talent and it's not perfectly balanced with TG. In this case, it will either be the go-to talent like Devastator for Protection, it will never be used, or it will be situational so Fury warriors would need to keep two sets of weapons on them in order to swap between talents.

If it is perfectly balanced with TG, the SMF talent would essentially be wasting a talent space for the sake of cosmetic flavor.

Your best bet at getting SMF back is in the form of transmog or a glyph.
Yes give me SMF with Frenzy and I would call it the best iteration of Fury
ever. It's would be like vanilla without stance dancing.
05/31/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Slowmotion
Maybe Siegebreaker could apply a 10 second debuff that causes Bloodthirst to have a 1.5 second shorter cooldown when used on that target, or Raging Blow has significantly higher chance to reset on use on that target. The rest of the tier seems to be cooldown based rage generation increases and this would be a window that changes the rotation a bit rather than a flat c-smash damage window.


I really like this idea, instead of another damage window I would like the idea behind a reduced CD window/increased proc window. I can see siegebreaker thematically as creating a window for more opportune strikes where rather than making the target weaker it merely offsets them and gives us more openings, or something like that.

Overall, I like the changes though, Siegebreaker is the only thing I think could use some work. Glad to see Avatar go, it really didn't fit imo.

However I'm surprised to see Bloodbath go. But I have a suggestion in that regards. You talk about making Dragon Roar akin to Odyn's Fury, but one of the things that made it so strong was the DoT on top of the base damage. Personally I never liked Bladestorm for Fury because you just sat there and waited for it to finish. An idea I have would be to add a bleed component to Bladestorm on top of its reduced duration to also give it that Odyn's Fury feel. Obviously the base damage would have to be reduced, but I think this would make Bladestorm a little more attached to a Fury playstyle.

Either way, I look forward to testing these changes and greatly appreciate your efforts.
05/31/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Gryph
...

See there is a nice alternative to Siege Breaker and the damage window we don't really need more of. Give us Single Minded Fury as a talent instead. I am sure that can be balance on the row just with increased attack speed from lighter weapons to do competitive damage with the other options in the row.

Just worry it could be too good if not monitored and become the go to talent once we get too much haste. Even with that I would rather have that instead of Siege Breaker.


They can't (and shouldn't) do this.

Let's say they make SMF a talent and it's not perfectly balanced with TG. In this case, it will either be the go-to talent like Devastator for Protection, it will never be used, or it will be situational so Fury warriors would need to keep two sets of weapons on them in order to swap between talents.

Even if it is perfectly balanced with TG, the SMF talent would essentially be wasting a talent space for the sake of cosmetic flavor.

Your best bet at getting SMF back is in the form of transmog or a glyph.

Well I guess with frenzy not being based off of crit anymore like it used to be I guess it would be fairly cosmetic because the only thing that would be happening differently is more Auto attacks.
Appreciate the great communication.

Only gripe, is Siegebreaker the intended direction you want to go with Fury? Another burst window? It’s better than Arms (33% uptime is amazing). Definitely something to talk shop about. Not sure it’s a better direction than Avatar, and it’s definitely, on paper, the go-to talent for that row.

All in all, better iteration of fury than the entirety of legion. Just one consideration I think, and the spec is flawless. Thank you.
05/31/2018 10:55 AMPosted by Rikar
Well I guess with frenzy not being based off of crit anymore like it used to be I guess it would be fairly cosmetic because the only thing that would be happening differently is more Auto attacks.


Not really sure what you're getting at.

Frenzy is a haste buff, which lowers the cooldown of Bloodthirst, giving us more rage and enrage (another haste buff) uptime, so you're using Rampage more frequently, so you're enraged more frequently, so you generate more rage... ad infinitum.
The simple fix is just take Avatar off the GCD.
So I'm losing bladestorm pretty much since Dragons roar will pretty much become mandatory. Nice...
Really nice proposed changes. Siegebreaker is definitely a spell I'm looking forward to. Hoping it has a nice animation like Skullsplitter for Arms, which just looks and sounds like a really beefy attack.

Bladestorm change is also nice but it feels like setting it up is too slow. Reck>Rampage>Bladestorm. I think a better solution would be just making it Enrage you on cast or doing damage as if you were Enraged or something along those lines.
05/30/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Seph
Any version that was a separate self-buff damage cooldown button didn’t feel great to press consecutively with Recklessness, because you’re pressing two straight abilities which both feel more like self-buffs than attacks


Man, but I would I love to see this logic applied to some other specs too.
Not very excited about the Siegebreaker change to be honest, don't want fury to have another version of colossus smash.

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