[Feedback] Fury Warrior: Rotation & Talents

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Ok I'm in the new build. I thought Avatar was gone ?
05/31/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Wilanor
Ok I'm in the new build. I thought Avatar was gone ?


Yeah seems only about half the changes on the blue post made it into beta for some reason.

https://puu.sh/AwGcA/7db6262984.jpg

This is the current talent selection for Fury if anyone is unable to log in.
05/31/2018 01:17 PMPosted by Venusaur
05/31/2018 01:08 PMPosted by Wilanor
Ok I'm in the new build. I thought Avatar was gone ?


Yeah seems only about half the changes on the blue post made it into beta for some reason.

https://puu.sh/AwGcA/7db6262984.jpg

This is the current talent selection for Fury if anyone is unable to log in.

The very first line of the bluepost says

05/30/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Seph
We’ve been iterating on Fury Warrior since last week, and the next Beta build will again be a slightly out-of-date version of Fury compared to we have internally at this moment.


This is an interim build, stuff has changed, hence the bluepost telling us ahead of time that much of what we see in today's build isn't intended.
Always seems the interim build is better than the final build we get stuck with.

Why can't they just stop and leave the build that knocked it out of the park? I swear it seems so many times that blizzard figured you were having to much fun so they are going to muck it up to keep everyone from wanting to play the fun build.
I liked the Massacre described in the blue post, not the one in the beta build notes, I'd like to be able to execute from 35% just like Warlocks and Shadow Priests, that's a good talent for high HP long execute fights.

I don't like Siegebreaker and Dragon Roar will only be taken if it's not on the global, just like Odyn's Fury.

I prefer Recklessness right now, where it gives rage gen, but instead of Siegebreaker giving damage, to single target why not shift to talents/cooldowns that give something like, more haste, enhance mastery bonus, enhance auto attack speed, enhance rage generated by rampage, decrease rampage rage cost, increase damage done by rampage per hit, sort of like a stack, make interesting cooldowns intead of just flat out "100% crit chance" making warriors useless now that tanks threat is down a lot.

Cooldowns that straight up increase crit chance to 100% are bad, specially now tha tanks threat is down 80%.
05/30/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Seph

Siegebreaker (30 sec cooldown, Generates 15 Rage): Break the enemy’s defenses, dealing [120% AP] Physical damage, and increasing your damage done to the target by 20% for 10 sec.


Call it Siegebreaker if you want but it behaves too similarly to Colossus Smash, which is an integral part of the Arms spec. Why does Fury get access to it while Arms has had Recklessness taken away from it?
05/31/2018 03:24 PMPosted by Amadoose

I don't like Siegebreaker and Dragon Roar will only be taken if it's not on the global, just like Odyn's Fury.


Odyn's Fury is on the GCD.
05/31/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Gronkar
Call it Siegebreaker if you want but it behaves too similarly to Colossus Smash, which is an integral part of the Arms spec. Why does Fury get access to it while Arms has had Recklessness taken away from it?


I have no idea what Arms has to do with this. This is a Fury thread. If you think Arms Recklessness, make a new thread or find an Arms thread to talk about it. If you're crying that Fury gets an ability that actually requires some thought, QQ more.
05/31/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Quard
05/31/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Gronkar
Call it Siegebreaker if you want but it behaves too similarly to Colossus Smash, which is an integral part of the Arms spec. Why does Fury get access to it while Arms has had Recklessness taken away from it?


I have no idea what Arms has to do with this. This is a Fury thread. If you think Arms Recklessness, make a new thread or find an Arms thread to talk about it. If you're crying that Fury gets an ability that actually requires some thought, QQ more.


Fury doesn't exist inside of a vacuum even though whichever dev is working on it seems to think so. I play both specs and I'm perfectly okay with Fury getting some depth. What I don't like is watching Arms lose some of its identity while getting nothing in return. Fury doesn't need its own Colossus Smash to have some added depth to it.
05/30/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Seph
When looking at the third talent slot on this row, we tried various version of Bloodbath or Avatar at different cooldowns, or with different mechanics, or with up-front damage, and even a version where the talent literally just cast both Avatar and Recklessness for 15 sec with a 1.5-2 min CD. In the end we concluded:
  • Any version that was a separate self-buff damage cooldown button didn’t feel great to press consecutively with Recklessness, because you’re pressing two straight abilities which both feel more like self-buffs than attacks
  • Any version that made Recklessness stronger (high damage/amplitude) or replaced Recklessness with an ability with a 1.5 min cooldown, felt too similar to Reckless Abandon
  • Any version that made Recklessness shorter cooldown was Anger Management
  • Any version that made Recklessness a longer cooldown or replaced it with a new spell with a longer cooldown, didn’t feel great because you were taking a talent that made Recklessness available less often
  • In the end, we’re going to try a cooldown attack that debuffs the target, increasing your damage done to them for a duration. This synergizes with Recklessness in a way that feels better – Recklessness first to buff yourself, then a heavy attack against the enemy. The intended gameplay is: Build up Rage -> Siegebreaker -> Rampage -> Rebuild Rage -> Rampage before Siegebreaker ends. Correct tuning on the duration will allow 2 Rampages to be doable during one Siegebreaker, but not trivial to do mindlessly. During Recklessness you should be able to get off three Rampages in the Siegebreaker window.

    Siegebreaker (30 sec cooldown, Generates 15 Rage): Break the enemy’s defenses, dealing [120% AP] Physical damage, and increasing your damage done to the target by 20% for 10 sec.


    I don't mind Colossus Smash returning as a talent, but after reading through the replies I do agree that since it has been pushed into a core mechanic of Arms it feels a bit weird for Fury to get it by another name.

    What if the 3rd talent took a mechanical queue from Stormlash, where every crit while Recklessness is active gives a buff to a party/raid member (or the warrior if not grouped) - but flavored for Fury. For example, the buff lasts 10 seconds, can stack, consumed by the first ability that crits, increases crit multiplier.

    While I didn't enjoy Rampage when it was a 30 second buff to manage, I recall the buff caused a little angry face over the warrior, which could be fun to see return especially if it was popping around your raid.
    05/31/2018 03:28 PMPosted by Gronkar
    05/30/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Seph

    Siegebreaker (30 sec cooldown, Generates 15 Rage): Break the enemy’s defenses, dealing [120% AP] Physical damage, and increasing your damage done to the target by 20% for 10 sec.


    Call it Siegebreaker if you want but it behaves too similarly to Colossus Smash, which is an integral part of the Arms spec. Why does Fury get access to it while Arms has had Recklessness taken away from it?


    Colossus Smash - Spell - World of Warcraft - Wowhead
    www.wowhead.com › Database › Spells › Specialization › Warrior › Arms
    Requires Warrior (Arms) ... Smashes the enemy's armor, dealing 222% Physical damage, and increasing damage you deal to them by 15% for 8 sec. ..

    Yep that is basically Colossus Smash, and I want nothing to do with it. If this ends up being the default talent because its damage is so much higher then I give up and it's just time for me to move on to another game. I've been waiting for years for Warrior to become Warrior again, this new build is very much warrior, but I'm sick of Colossus Smash.
    Is Execute not hitting multiple targets with the Whirlwind buff for anybody else?
    05/31/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Thorhammer
    Is Execute not hitting multiple targets with the Whirlwind buff for anybody else?

    It's a bug, already reported.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765116936#1

    Whirlwind is also generating a static 3 rage, regardless of targets hit (rather than 3+1*targets), and the new Meat Cleaver talent has no effect.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764956880#post-1
    05/31/2018 04:35 PMPosted by Thorhammer
    Is Execute not hitting multiple targets with the Whirlwind buff for anybody else?

    It's a bug, already reported.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765116936#1

    Whirlwind is also generating a static 3 rage, regardless of targets hit (rather than 3+1*target), and the new Meat Cleaver talent has no effect.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764956880#post-1


    It is really difficult with these bugs and all the changes not implemented in this build to give really good feedback. Going to keep at it and going to avoid using talents on the chopping block.
    05/31/2018 10:47 AMPosted by Protege
    They can't (and shouldn't) do this.


    Sorry it might not be the best suggestion on here but it is a better alternative then Siege Breaker. (Colossus Smash 2.0)

    At least Single Minded Fury is at its core a Fury ability and not copied from another spec or class.
    Could we maybe get a little better animation for Victory Rush?
    Hey K + class team, thanks for fixing the rage adjustments and other mentions from my last post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20764336416?page=3#post-60
    05/30/2018 07:13 PMPosted by Seph
    Furious Slash is the Furious Slash attack (from live) combined with Frenzy (the talent from live), as described last week, granting Haste per stack, stacking up to 3. It serves as the higher-complexity talent that add a brand new button to your rotation. The Haste granted has been reduced to a more appropriate level (2% per stack, pending playtesting/feedback/tuning) considering the spec now has 25% Haste baseline from Enrage, and with another talent (Frothing Berserker) also providing 10% Haste occasionally.

    The haste buff keeps going lower. I understand it's in response to the Enrage giving haste instead of attack speed and the Frothing Berserker talent.

    My wish for the future of Furious Slash is that it would be easy to haste cap like it is on live. I prefer the 1 sec gcd and the frantic button mashing.

    With the intended changes of 2% * 3 6%, we would only need 2.9% haste from gear to cap out at 50% if we took Frothing Berserker.

    Could we simply use the 3% we have on our current build? It would essentially cap us on haste.

    Alternatively since furious slash is giving low percentages of buffs at 2% or 3%, could we instead set Enrage to a lower haste percentage and increase the haste gained from Furious Slash or Frothing Berserker?
    05/31/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Twistedmind
    My wish for the future of Furious Slash is that it would be easy to haste cap like it is on live. I prefer the 1 sec gcd and the frantic button mashing.

    With the intended changes of 2% * 3 6%, we would only need 2.9% haste from gear to cap out at 50% if we took Frothing Berserker.

    50% is not the Haste cap, the soft cap is 100% Haste capping the GCD at 0.75s. Dynamic cooldowns (BT, RB, Exe, etc) and auto-attacks continue to be reduced at the regular rate, so there's still a benefit, although the game isn't really designed with the intent of going above 100% regularly or for any length of time.

    Currently all the myriad haste effects on the talent tree, combined with outside sources such as Heroism, Trinkets, Enchants, etc, are a serious runaway gun. It's quite realistic to regularly go over 100% Haste on the beta, and not all that difficult to engineer situations in which you can spike up to 200-300% either.

    Although it's certainly interesting, it's also pretty ridiculous, and the rotation starts to fall apart when you get up that high. I'd rather see the excess Haste talents go away entirely, perhaps shift a slight bit more into Enrage, and limit the number of multiplicative effects to keep the sum total from spiraling out of control so easily.
    05/31/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Archimtiros
    50% is not the Haste cap, the soft cap is 100% Haste capping the GCD at 0.75s. Dynamic cooldowns (BT, RB, Exe, etc) and auto-attacks continue to be reduced at the regular rate, so there's still a benefit, although the game isn't really designed with the intent of going above 100% regularly or for any length of time.

    Currently all the myriad haste effects on the talent tree, combined with outside sources such as Heroism, Trinkets, Enchants, etc, are a serious runaway gun. It's quite realistic to regularly go over 100% Haste on the beta, and not all that difficult to engineer situations in which you can spike up to 200-300% either.

    Although it's certainly interesting, it's also pretty ridiculous, and the rotation starts to fall apart when you get up that high. I'd rather see the excess Haste talents go away entirely, perhaps shift a slight bit more into Enrage, and limit the number of multiplicative effects to keep the sum total from spiraling out of control so easily.

    You're right. Whoops.

    I still would like to see more than 2% on Furious Slash.
    05/31/2018 05:47 PMPosted by Twistedmind
    Alternatively since furious slash is giving low percentages of buffs at 2% or 3%, could we instead set Enrage to a lower haste percentage and increase the haste gained from Furious Slash or Frothing Berserker?


    I think the problem with this is for the people that would choose the other talents. It would be harder for them too hit that haste cap which means they will be forced too choose those talents if they want too be competitive in dps.

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