Punishing Mechanics

BFA Dungeons, Island Expeditions, and Raids
One of my pet peeves of mechanics in WoW is that mechanics that do not kill the player who fails, the healer is the one who has to "pay".

I'm in favor of more mechanics that punish the person who fails it. Take for example, Darkheart Thicket. Players know how nightmare bolt and growing Paranoia work, even on a normal dungeon level, because its a punishing mechanic to those who fail it, regardless of difficulty. Most other dungeon mechanics just damage the player, and they don't seem to learn to avoid it.

There seems to be a bit of this in BfA dungeon design.

Atal Dazar: Priestess has a mechanic where you deal 30% less damage if hit by it. Rezan fears you (unable to attack) if you don't line of sight him.

Theres blinding sand from Merektha (Snake Boss) in Temple, and the Sand Queen (Tol Dagor) stunning the player for stepping in a sand pile.

I think sprinkling in a bit more DPS punishing mechanics would make things more interesting. Stuns, haste reductions, silences, all things that work.
If anyone (Including Healer) gets hit by avoidable mechanics, its not the healers fault, and anyone accusing a healer for that is a downright fool. I am in favor of making dungeons in general much more difficult, but at the same token, much more rewarding.

#MakeWoWHardAgain
I kind of agree with this. I sometimes dont bother moving from stuff because I figure the healer can deal with it and that's probably not good. But the things that affect my output personally I am meticulous about.

In fairness in BFA there is a much wider variety of mechanics through the dungeons and raids and the raids in particular seem very coordination heavy.
Totally agree

If mythic + showed us anything, it's that if something doesn't 1-shot you over and over, people will just ignore it and have the healer top them off.

'' I just lost 75% of my health? maybe that avalanche is avoidable, or maybe there's something I have to interrupt? or... let the healer handle it.''

Just kidding, they didn't even notice they just lost 75% of their health.

I totally support the idea of stunning/fearing/flinging player when they get hit by avoidable stuff.
05/20/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Faildead
I kind of agree with this. I sometimes dont bother moving from stuff because I figure the healer can deal with it and that's probably not good. But the things that affect my output personally I am meticulous about.

In fairness in BFA there is a much wider variety of mechanics through the dungeons and raids and the raids in particular seem very coordination heavy.


Its fine to be able to judge things as lethal vs not and act accordingly A 40% hit is not something you need to panic about, an 80% one is, everyone can recognize that. . Everything being 1 shots would be both frustrating and dull.

But some things need to be 1 shots and arent. When youre given 8 seconds of leeway and you dont avoid the mechanic you should die.
05/22/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Giscõ
05/20/2018 11:48 AMPosted by Faildead
I kind of agree with this. I sometimes dont bother moving from stuff because I figure the healer can deal with it and that's probably not good. But the things that affect my output personally I am meticulous about.

In fairness in BFA there is a much wider variety of mechanics through the dungeons and raids and the raids in particular seem very coordination heavy.


Its fine to be able to judge things as lethal vs not and act accordingly A 40% hit is not something you need to panic about, an 80% one is, everyone can recognize that. . Everything being 1 shots would be both frustrating and dull.

But some things need to be 1 shots and arent. When youre given 8 seconds of leeway and you dont avoid the mechanic you should die.


We're not talking about 1 shots necessarily. Things like getting blinded for not turning away, feared for not hiding behind pillar, slower cast times while sitting in a pool of goo or not gaining faster cast times for not moving to the haste puddle.

These mechanics are good because they affect my output personally so I care more about doing them then any mechanic that I can just stand in and let healers worry about.
And they clearly differentiate good vs bad with throughout, vs with a good healer a baddie that stands in all mechanics might look the same as a good player with moves out immediately on DPS meters. (The only thing people tend to care about)
05/24/2018 11:17 PMPosted by Faildead
05/22/2018 09:36 AMPosted by Giscõ
...

Its fine to be able to judge things as lethal vs not and act accordingly A 40% hit is not something you need to panic about, an 80% one is, everyone can recognize that. . Everything being 1 shots would be both frustrating and dull.

But some things need to be 1 shots and arent. When youre given 8 seconds of leeway and you dont avoid the mechanic you should die.


We're not talking about 1 shots necessarily. Things like getting blinded for not turning away, feared for not hiding behind pillar, slower cast times while sitting in a pool of goo or not gaining faster cast times for not moving to the haste puddle.

These mechanics are good because they affect my output personally so I care more about doing them then any mechanic that I can just stand in and let healers worry about.


But a few seconds of damage downtime doesnt actually matter unless theres an enrage timer. What actually happens is it still shifts to the healer because they need to stretch their mana longer.

We have that stupid mind control world boss, does it stop people from facing her? Nope, they dont care because they dont need to, losing uptime is negligible and what happens is the healer just has to deal with the damage from dots after they come out of mind control.
05/19/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Nich
One of my pet peeves of mechanics in WoW is that mechanics that do not kill the player who fails, the healer is the one who has to "pay".


The healer has to 'pay' ? That is like saying blizzard giving the mobs health is punishing dps. The healer is only there to 'heal'.
06/11/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Bertane
05/19/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Nich
One of my pet peeves of mechanics in WoW is that mechanics that do not kill the player who fails, the healer is the one who has to "pay".


The healer has to 'pay' ? That is like saying blizzard giving the mobs health is punishing dps. The healer is only there to 'heal'.


He's more saying that the healer is forced to pick up others slack, which can also lead to toxic environments. Love it when people complained about dying to volcanic at 70% hp saying "I should have been topped off, heals is bad" turns out healing everyone back to full instantly isn't possible.
I know most people weren't fans - but I loved Cataclysm dungeons. There were MANY of these mechanics - and it was almost impossible to blame a healer for your screw ups (although many people, not surprisingly, still tried). You stood in the jumps on the worm boss in the Stonecore - you died. Instantly. Hell, that dungeon alone had like 10 mechanics that could one shot people with no mercy.

The only downside to all of that is you figured out quick that the general WoW dungeon population are pretty terrible players - and toxic, too, once they died a few times and refused to take responsibility for themselves.
06/11/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Bertane
05/19/2018 03:49 AMPosted by Nich
One of my pet peeves of mechanics in WoW is that mechanics that do not kill the player who fails, the healer is the one who has to "pay".


The healer has to 'pay' ? That is like saying blizzard giving the mobs health is punishing dps. The healer is only there to 'heal'.


yes, pay.

it's your job to not get hit by avoidable stuff, it's not the healer job to pick up everyonelse slack all the time.
07/12/2018 10:23 AMPosted by Vloorg
06/11/2018 05:16 PMPosted by Bertane
...

The healer has to 'pay' ? That is like saying blizzard giving the mobs health is punishing dps. The healer is only there to 'heal'.


yes, pay.

it's your job to not get hit by avoidable stuff, it's not the healer job to pick up everyonelse slack all the time.


Its the DPS job not to die to avoidable stuff, but taking non-lethal damage is sometimes a necessity in order to maximize DPS output.

M+ obviously requires DPS maximization as much as possible, which means that the healer has to sweat a little bit too.
07/12/2018 02:42 PMPosted by Lolth
07/12/2018 10:23 AMPosted by Vloorg
...

yes, pay.

it's your job to not get hit by avoidable stuff, it's not the healer job to pick up everyonelse slack all the time.


Its the DPS job not to die to avoidable stuff, but taking non-lethal damage is sometimes a necessity in order to maximize DPS output.

M+ obviously requires DPS maximization as much as possible, which means that the healer has to sweat a little bit too.


then you end up with a whole bunch of high ilvl player clueless about mechanic and the +15 that's supposed to be a cakewalk for a group of 940 turns into a headache with 960s... '' it's not my fault if I died to volcanic, the healer should've topped me off!''

Or the people that get stunned/pushed/mindcontrolled, that's a big DPs increase here.

Or the people who forget healers can dish out quite a bit of damage if they don't constantly have to patch up lazy !@# DPS who can't move 2 step to the left.
Agreed with OP. Punish DPS who willfully ignore or do not understand mechanics... opting to mindlessly tunnel the mob/boss regardless of incoming damage/mechanics.

Disorients, Stuns, etc. are one way.

Disarms could be an effective way to punish melee DPS specifically that they can really notice because all of a sudden a bunch of their buttons are greyed out. An example of this would be Volcanic "overheating" their weapon, whereby they basically drop the weapon for a few seconds so even if they're in the middle of a damage window, they have to avoid the mechanic otherwise the window will be gone with no DPS output. It's also immediately apparent to the player, rather than just slapping them with a debuff that reduces their throughput.

A spell casting speed reduction debuff would be a good way to punish ranged DPS, cut their spell casting speed in half and double length of time of the GCD for a period of time.

The point being that the game rewards being familiar with and avoiding dangerous mechanics, and it does so in a way that is reflected in DPS meters which everyone just focuses on so much but at the same time is immediately noticeable by the player during the encounter.
M+ affix, the lower life you are you get lower and lower damage dampening. above 95% you get slight bonus damage. DPS knowing that standing in something would not be worth it for the damage reduction at points in a fight or in a m+ affix would stop a lot of that.
We had Tomb of Sargeras mythic where small mistakes not only killed you they caused your corpse to explode and deal 55 bazillion damage to all players in the instance.

That was fun everyone loved that raid.
05/20/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Joeyb
If anyone (Including Healer) gets hit by avoidable mechanics, its not the healers fault, and anyone accusing a healer for that is a downright fool. I am in favor of making dungeons in general much more difficult, but at the same token, much more rewarding.

#MakeWoWHardAgain


lol, you're kidding right. bosses have more mechanics and hit harder than they ever have in the history of the game, what delusion are you living in

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