Jaina Never Stopped Fighting the Legion

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05/22/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Arlifrex
Not entirely agreeing or disagreeing, but Moira’s fine.


That's something at least.
05/22/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Karzerus
By the standard we are judging Jaina on in this thread, nearly every single Horde character deserves to be executed for mass murder.


What standard is that?

She did, in fact, commit mass murder of her own citizens.

It's not like it's a technicality or something.
05/22/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Gibbons
05/22/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Parsley
Jaina fought the Legion everywhere they weren't much of a threat and everywhere it wasn't important. What a hero!


Again, how do we know that it wasn't important?

Every demon she fought was one less demon at Antorus, for example. Her distractions may have made our victory there possible.


I guess that's possibly true, but since we are head-canoning it, I prefer to imagine that it was the off-camera shenanigans of Budd and his squad that really tipped the balance.
05/22/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Carmageddon
05/22/2018 08:13 AMPosted by Karzerus
By the standard we are judging Jaina on in this thread, nearly every single Horde character deserves to be executed for mass murder.


What standard is that?

She did, in fact, commit mass murder of her own citizens.

It's not like it's a technicality or something.


You and I must have played through a different scenario. She apprehended most of them and killed the few that resisted.

"Mass murder" is an absolutely absurd way to put it and really displays your lack of honesty in this argument. First of all, 'murder' is only deemed for the unlawful premeditated killing of others. Seeing as Jaina was the head of her government at the time, looked to imprison first, not kill, and had fairly valid motive, there's no way it could be considered murder at all.

Horde posters have worked themselves up into such a bitter emotional state that the only thing they have to offer anymore is fallacies and general vitriol.
Everyone forgets the scenario was changed and blizz never updated the dialogue.
Well, she would have been far more effective if she was a team player....
05/22/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
Everyone forgets the scenario was changed and blizz never updated the dialogue.


What was changed?
05/22/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Karzerus
05/22/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Carmageddon
...

What standard is that?

She did, in fact, commit mass murder of her own citizens.

It's not like it's a technicality or something.


You and I must have played through a different scenario. She apprehended most of them and killed the few that resisted.

"Mass murder" is an absolutely absurd way to put it and really displays your lack of honesty in this argument. First of all, 'murder' is only deemed for the unlawful premeditated killing of others. Seeing as Jaina was the head of her government at the time, looked to imprison first, not kill, and had fairly valid motive, there's no way it could be considered murder at all.

Horde posters have worked themselves up into such a bitter emotional state that the only thing they have to offer anymore is fallacies and general vitriol.


Oh, your first point is actually very easy to answer - we do play different scenarios. In the Alliance one, she traps and teleports. In the Horde one, she is quite literally fireballing anyone she sees to death, including any fleeing civilian/shopkeeper she happens to come across.
05/22/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Karzerus
05/22/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Carmageddon
...

What standard is that?

She did, in fact, commit mass murder of her own citizens.

It's not like it's a technicality or something.


You and I must have played through a different scenario. She apprehended most of them and killed the few that resisted.

"Mass murder" is an absolutely absurd way to put it and really displays your lack of honesty in this argument. First of all, 'murder' is only deemed for the unlawful premeditated killing of others. Seeing as Jaina was the head of her government at the time, looked to imprison first, not kill, and had fairly valid motive, there's no way it could be considered murder at all.

Horde posters have worked themselves up into such a bitter emotional state that the only thing they have to offer anymore is fallacies and general vitriol.


First of all, murder is NOT " only deemed for the unlawful premeditated killing of others." That would be first degree murder. Jaina, however, seems to be lashing out in rage rather than pre-meditation, so her execution of Aethas' guards would be second-degree murder.

I think you need to play through that scenario again before accusing others of misrepresenting the facts, since you seem to have selective recall.

FACT: Jaina was NOT the sole head of her government. She was one member of the ruling council, which was supposed to *vote* on major decisions. Which, in fact, is why she left after they voted to readmit the Horde and she disagreed.

She does *act* like the she thinks she's solely in charge of Dalaran during the Purge, though.

FACT: Jaina does *not* "look to imprison first." She ports in, immediately kills two of Aethas' guards (who do not attack her), has a brief argument with Aethas, imprisons him, and straight-up kills the other three guards (who still haven't attacked her). What is that if not murder?

FACT: In the ensuing scenario, she kills numerous panicking Blood Elves. There is a dispute over whether or not this is canonical, however, as I already noted.

FACT: Jaina subsequently puts the "purge" in the hands of the Sunreaver's mortal enemies, the Silver Covenant. That makes her morally responsible for what happens next (murdering of civilians, etc.).

FACT: She tried TWICE to murder everyone in Orgrimmar, up to and including children (she expressly argues that the children need to die too because they will just grow up to be evil). She isn't talked down on either attempt; Thrall straight up stops her and fights with her. But she didn't just have her finger over the button, she launched the nuke. Twice. She is only talked down from her THIRD attempt.

Nor have I offered "vitriol", unlike you. I haven't generalized about Alliance posters, and I don't think there is anything wrong, narratively, with having Jaina lose it and go kind of berserk. I'm just pointing out that the facts are that she did commit murder, multiple times, and she did attempt genocide, twice.

So before accusing me of "vitriol" and "fallacies", you should familiarize yourself with the lore.
05/22/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Draile
Well, she would have been far more effective if she was a team player....
But then she would have been held back from...uhh...doing whatever she did! That was apparently not noteworthy enough that a single person or demon noticed it!
05/22/2018 07:33 AMPosted by Karzerus
In the new comic, it's shown she went on ahead and took on the demons alone after her exit from Dalaran, instead of simply abandoning the fight altogether.

Looks like even less ammo for pro-Hordies to use against her because they want her to die for daring to be hostile to the Horde. I love Jaina as a character. Here's hoping she has a great character arc in the next expansion.


She basically left her family in front of a firing squad.

But that's supposed to be okay cause she later punched someone carrying a gun.

Gotta love the logic.
"Jaina never stopped fighting the demons".

So what? Neither did I.

Guess the Horde is as heroic as Jaina now.
05/22/2018 08:22 AMPosted by Parsley
Jaina fought the Legion everywhere they weren't much of a threat and everywhere it wasn't important. What a hero!


With the gear you have you did less than she did.
Sounds out of character for her, I mean demons would be everywhere if the world was invaded and all cities were attacked.

05/22/2018 08:04 AMPosted by Vildaryon
It's still really bad writing that they didn't explain why Jaina didn't teleport everyone off of the Broken Shore.

This you see her using the ability in mount haala, so she should of been able to do this.
05/22/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Carrastealth
She basically left her family in front of a firing squad.

But that's supposed to be okay cause she later punched someone carrying a gun.

Gotta love the logic.


If we consider Dalaran her family it would be more like her family giving a person who kill her other family members a key to their house and her leaving in disgust.

But then she would have been held back from...uhh...doing whatever she did! That was apparently not noteworthy enough that a single person or demon noticed it!


Its not like we are conversing that much with demons asking them who has caused them the most headache. Hell, demons dont even acknowledge all the losses they kept suffering.
05/22/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Arlifrex
05/22/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Alnateil
I don't know what to say. I had heard about Jaina becoming increasingly hostile towards the Horde, which felt like more horrible writing by Blizzard, but to hear about her attempts at mass murder? Clearly Blizzard just hates all the WC3 heroes or is it just the female heroes? They all seem completely unhinged, excessively hostile and in some cases genocidal in comparison to their male counterparts.


Not entirely agreeing or disagreeing, but Moira’s fine.

Moira isn't a WC3 Hero.

05/22/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Anyaceltica
Everyone forgets the scenario was changed and blizz never updated the dialogue.

It wasn't changed. She's still able to kill people at random, just like before.
Have to agree with doesn't really mean much.

If Broken Shore 2.0 and Argus fails it doesn't matter how many random mooks you kill as they'll just keep coming back to Azeroth again and again.

Plus since nobody spotted her it wasn't even like she was defending anything that important.
05/22/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Carrastealth
She basically left her family in front of a firing squad.

But that's supposed to be okay cause she later punched someone carrying a gun.

Gotta love the logic.

"Hey Jaina, we're going to allow these murderers, backstabbers and rapists into where we live because maybe they won't try to backstab or betray us as we fight these other bad people."
Lies! We all know she was hiding because the Illidari had just left the starting zone and would have exposed her as being a Dreadlord.
05/22/2018 01:46 PMPosted by Karzerus

Horde posters have worked themselves up into such a bitter emotional state that the only thing they have to offer anymore is fallacies and general vitriol.


I would say it is just people in general. We are all the same player base in the end.

There is a general tendency to achieve such incredible levels of hyperbole that the claims made seem bizarre. Then, those who agree with the sentiment fold it wholesale into their own head canon, and are surprised when the writers don't acknowledge what they see as obvious.

It isn't something unique to us, however. Much more that it is human nature to dive at confirmation bias like a chihuahua at snausages, and fill in incomplete information with whatever favors their position.

Some posts are best read like an INFOWARS video.

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