War mode scaling is incorrect.

Battle for Azeroth Warmode and PvP
Prev 1 2 3 8 Next
Alright Wrath-baby.


Lol, you're the real wrath baby, I was pwning 70s on my 60 warr in BC. this is how it was, not exactly, but close.

This is how it should be kept, but the same as BG templates. (1-10%)

Just cause you can't kill !@#$ doesn't mean one-shot BS should come back. GO cry more.
yep, roughly 8 slots total from BS+JC crafted gear.
Today: "lol you are mad because you can't just one shot level 110 as a level 120"

After release: "bliz do something I keep being killed by level 110 twinks"

This is not even remotely the same thing as when good geared lowbies were killing quest gear max levels in previous expansion packs. The scaling is out of wack, resilience scaling didn't have such a drastic effect.

The result if this goes live (which, don't kid yourselves, it won't) is that we'll just forego leveling at release and be low level twinks until level 120s are geared up enough. Then we'll level up and catch up.

Bottom line, there is no sense in overscaling lowbies since being a lowbie is a temporary condition and lowbies are a minority of players. Most people are max level, and max level versus lowbie fights are actually extremely rare.
05/24/2018 10:43 PMPosted by Lapdcop
yep, roughly 8 slots total from BS+JC crafted gear.


They have no secondary stats tho right? Or is that just a wowhead error.
I don't remember checking the secondaries for BS since my friend crafted it but I know that the JC rings I crafted do have secondary stats. I'll have to check in with him on that front.

05/24/2018 10:52 PMPosted by Salmira


The result if this goes live (which, don't kid yourselves, it won't) is that we'll just forego leveling at release and be low level twinks until level 120s are geared up enough. Then we'll level up and catch up.

This is the most likely scenario if conditions aren't changed.
Not going to lie, I had quite the surprise (haven't checked up on the beta in a while) when I tried to 2v1 on my 120 a couple levelling together (112 and 114) in warmode. Legit thought it would be a cake walk and I was wrong, got destroyed. I dont know how I feel about it, but it makes sense and doesn't trivialise the decision to turn warmode on because if it wasn't scaled most 120s would turn it on just for the resource boost. But now with scaling you can't just destroy fresh toons.
05/24/2018 10:52 PMPosted by Salmira
Today: "lol you are mad because you can't just one shot level 110 as a level 120"

After release: "bliz do something I keep being killed by level 110 twinks"

This is not even remotely the same thing as when good geared lowbies were killing quest gear max levels in previous expansion packs. The scaling is out of wack, resilience scaling didn't have such a drastic effect.

The result if this goes live (which, don't kid yourselves, it won't) is that we'll just forego leveling at release and be low level twinks until level 120s are geared up enough. Then we'll level up and catch up.

Bottom line, there is no sense in overscaling lowbies since being a lowbie is a temporary condition and lowbies are a minority of players. Most people are max level, and max level versus lowbie fights are actually extremely rare.

Fixing scaling is why we're in Beta. Trying to revert to "I'm max and you're not so I should just roll over you for fun while I drool", is not okay. That's the problem with these arguments, it's not one or the other, you have to use your brain and fix things the right way.
05/24/2018 05:31 PMPosted by Lapdcop
05/24/2018 04:49 PMPosted by Shyja

So because of your journey of power you think you should just one shot anyone that isn't specifically max level... Why do you even PVP if you don't want resistance, clearly PVP isn't your thing.


Yep! Why should I be equal to someone out in the world who barely puts any time investment into their character? If I wanted a fair fight I would simply queue into a dungeon or an arena skrimish. Now since Wpvp is scaled instead of having 1 player kick your !@# you are going to have players roam around in packs still one shotting you with their collective strength.

Of course I wouldn't expect some BG hero to see the larger ramifications this change can make affecting players motivations such as end-game content. They're going to ask such questions as "why bother doing higher PvE content when their is only a 10%~ difference?", "Why bother leveling my BS, LW (or any other profession)when those 385 pieces are going to scale down for PvP?"

For me this change doesn't bother me too much because I always adjust my playstyle to fight unfairly. I am just gonna get groups of 10-40 and stomp those who want to make the world a "fair" place to fight.


As you have been already....groups and beating on one lowbie at a time. I see you lol.
As a working man i am in favour of scaling. Ill be able to simply log in and engage with wows timeless pvp class design directly. What could go wrong.
05/24/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Judgmental


Scale this back. A 115 shouldn’t touch a 120. Just as a 800 ilevel character shouldn’t touch a 975.

[/quote]

This is completely backwards. PvP is about your ability to play vs someone else's. PvE gear is obtained to perform better in PvE. If you want to win simply by outgearing someone then you are the sterling example of what is wrong with world PvP in legion.

Imagine if in Nascar you could just bring whatever you wanted, and the guy with the Formula 1 placed first every race, do you not understand how stupid and pointless that would be? Can you not process that would have !@#$all to do with his ability to drive and would purely be due to the fact his car is simply faster and more maneuverable? That's you, you're the guy demanding they let you bring your F1 to the Daytona 500.

Your premise goes against the entire concept of competition, and your suggestion shows exactly the type of player you are - and it's not the kind you should want to announce to the world via forum posts.
05/25/2018 05:41 AMPosted by Shyja
Trying to revert to "I'm max and you're not so I should just roll over you for fun while I drool", is not okay.

My point is that this is actually a terrible solution to a non problem, creating more issues than it solves.

Lowbies being killed by max levels, in my experience, both recent and old, and from the perspective of lowbie as well as of max level, is a completely anecdotal occurrence. I can count the occurrences of being killed by a max level while leveling on my fingers, despite the lengths I go to royally piss off every member of the opposite faction whom I run into.

The real context where scaling is relevant and interesting is level 120 versus level 120. This is where discussions should be focused (to avoid a repetition of legion where PvErs win just because they have access to much higher ilevel gear than pvpers), and instead everyone is distracted by the lowbie versus 120 scaling which is as broken as it is useless.

During the life duration of your character, how long are you a lowbie versus how long are you max level?
05/24/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Judgmental
Blizzard, it is game breaking that level 110s can stand against 120s.


It's not game breaking. Game breaking to me was queuing into Arena's with Shadowmourne and the expansion after, Gurthalak. You don't just deserve to be better to that extent just because your a higher level or because you went into LFR or ran a raid. The "hot take" here is an issue, one that existed far longer than it should have, and the only concept of progressing through item level stages on your character should be to continue doing harder and harder content; not to go out in the world and be the biggest kid on the playground because of the delusive arguement that because you joined a normal or heroic pug you communicated and took on the hardest content that WoW had to offer. 120's are a disadvantage because of how the stats scale but they also have access to better gear and I promise you that when your not wearing questing gear that the gap will widen but it's very unlikely it'll grant you auto-wins outside of a huge disparity.

05/24/2018 04:29 PMPosted by Peacecraft
...

Yes, In WORLD OF WARCRAFT WHERE A PERSON FORMS ADVENTURING TEAMS TO DISCOVER AND USE ARTIFACTS OF ANCIENT POWER you do. That is part of the fundamental world building of the game. PvP and PVE are not separate. Your hero’s journey culminates into its totality within the open world.


This is a very basic idea that I'm not in favor of at all. PvP and PVE are not separate but that doesn't mean create invisible barriers of entry. Anyone should be able to fill the group and participate in PvP out in the world (or in an instance). In my opinion - I'm far more interested in the gameplay, the experience, the players both on my team, or on the other side, and far less interested how much time they've spent in that raid when the focus in PvP in any capacity.


It is game breaking. When was the last time a someone got beaten by a player 10 levels lower than himself?
05/24/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Synthor
05/24/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Judgmental
Blizzard, it is game breaking that level 110s can stand against 120s.

Hot take: If undergeared and underleveled against your opponent by a large degree, you should lose.

There was a time when getting all of tier 2 or HWL gear ment that when you played correctly, with a bit of luck, you could stand against two people. This did not give you an excuse to play sloppy.

But this change, if it goes through to live, will damage the concept of what it means to progress through your content more than you know.

I raided for an Ashkandi so that I could feel more powerful than those who did not. I got Zin’Rokh so that I could demonstrate my power that I had attained over others.

Welfare epics will choke your game. You are not using the proper incentivization for people to reach towards your end game content.

Scale this back. A 115 shouldn’t touch a 120. Just as a 800 ilevel character shouldn’t touch a 975.

Allow the people who communicate and use teamwork to do your most challenging content to experience that power in the open world. Not fight in parity with a level 30 in stranglethorn.


Totally disagree PvP is about skill not gear and it seems you have no skill.


There’s no skill in PvP you idiot. Play a Pvp game if you want to brag about your “skill”.
05/24/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Synthor
05/24/2018 03:45 PMPosted by Judgmental
Blizzard, it is game breaking that level 110s can stand against 120s.

Hot take: If undergeared and underleveled against your opponent by a large degree, you should lose.

There was a time when getting all of tier 2 or HWL gear ment that when you played correctly, with a bit of luck, you could stand against two people. This did not give you an excuse to play sloppy.

But this change, if it goes through to live, will damage the concept of what it means to progress through your content more than you know.

I raided for an Ashkandi so that I could feel more powerful than those who did not. I got Zin’Rokh so that I could demonstrate my power that I had attained over others.

Welfare epics will choke your game. You are not using the proper incentivization for people to reach towards your end game content.

Scale this back. A 115 shouldn’t touch a 120. Just as a 800 ilevel character shouldn’t touch a 975.

Allow the people who communicate and use teamwork to do your most challenging content to experience that power in the open world. Not fight in parity with a level 30 in stranglethorn.


Totally disagree PvP is about skill not gear and it seems you have no skill.


There’s no skill in PvP you idiot. Play a Pvp game if you want to brag about your “skill”.

05/24/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Discodeeps
It's a non-issue. 120's have garbage gear on beta so they scale poorly in warmode. Once they get heroic / raid gear etc they'll have better stats in warmode.


False. It’s game breaking for obvious reasons.
[quote="207637276689"]
There’s no skill in PvP you idiot. Play a Pvp game if you want to brag about your “skill”.


Not even challenger, talks about skill cap of WoW PvP. Feels about right.
The one thing I'm wondering in all this discussion is that... There has always been a level range gap that, if you're X amount of levels under something you'd miss, or the damage you'd do would be inconsequential if you actually did end up connecting.

Does this mean that since a player 10 levels under another player can not only have a chance in the fight, but actually win... That a player 20 levels under would not have that same chance? If I'm level 100... But I know my class and I am an experienced player I can stand toe to toe with a level 120?

How many levels above your level do you see the unknown skull icon that used to mean "oh !@#$ this guy can destroy me"?

Also, since 110-119 can fight a 120 equally does that mean arenas and battlegrounds will not be split with level, and 110-120 will all be in the same queues together? Because by this current system I see no reason to even split up the level range at all. I should be able to queue into an RBG with 9 level 120 players while I'm level 114 while I'm leveling right?


Item level is arbitrary and used as progression marker for in game content. It has no bearing on your ability as a player and should not be the limiting factor in what you are able to do. PvE gear didn't make the game fun for me it was just another system that stacked the odds against my team whenever we played alts or different comps for no reason at all.

You kill competitiveness when systems can be abused from external factors.


05/24/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Synthor


Totally disagree PvP is about skill not gear and it seems you have no skill.


then why do we have levels or gear at all?

just get rid of it all make everyone equal? this game was always about the gear. blizz has killed that over the past few expansions and its a big reason I don't play live anymore. waiting for classic.
05/25/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Arkym
waiting for classic.


This is legit the answer for everyone who wants the old school wpvp back. The direction blizzard is taking wpvp now is a good one IMO. The more people in and able to participate the better.
Pretty much everything the OP said is stupid. I'm glad for scaling. Finally I can play the game they way I want to without having to spend hundreds of hours doing crap i hate first. Your tears are delicious btw.
I personally hate world pvp, and I mostly do arena. However that being said, it's actually hilarious that you consider one shotting someone a much lower level to be "pvp". This change is good, 100%.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum