No moonfire

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
?? ya, actually. I tried it. and it surprised me.

So, here is what happened. i've played balance off and on since BC and I've always loved the concept more than the execution. because of this I have only ever played it casual. The closest to a raiding focus I've had was doing EN when it was on farm. anyway, i was doing solo questing in Boralis and I tried found the GCD for moonfire and sunfire just wasted time, so I stopped using them. I know it's just solo questing, it's not raiding or anything, but it felt real good. So I decided to explore it. Ultimately I worked out a 1113232 talent build and I found it amazing to play.

Rotation wise I'd open with lunar, use stellar flare and kept it up, use starsurge whenever it was available and filled with wrath. I used lunarstrike again when I had an owlkin frenzy proc but I didn't otherwise. I would use fury of elune frequently too. it was a blast like this. In aoe I would substitute stellar flare for sunfire and starsurge for starffall, I also had a ton of olkin procs so basically spammed instant lunar strikes to fill. that was pretty fun too.

I was thinking to myself, as fun as this is, its just solo, it'll never work in an instance, right? So I tried it, and I was blown away. On bosses I was pretty sure the loss of moonfire and sunfire would hurt my damage, but it didn't. on a pure single target boss, keeping only stellar flare up and almost never using lunar strike, I was top damage, on every boss fight. I'd only add in sunfire on cleave or 3+ targets but I never use moonfire and I stayed on top of damage.

Maybe it was a fluke, maybe it was the instance, maybe it was the other players. So I tried again, and again and the results were largely the same. I wasn't always top, but in 16 dungeon runs I beat out not only every other balance player I came across, but every other ranged DPS I found. the only exceptions were character copies of mythic raiders. and I was using this toon, which as you can see if you want to look. isn't well geared.

so my thoughts, It kind of feels like a betrayal to not use moonfire, but it works, and it's fun, really fun. perhaps with more haste later on, that GCD to refresh moonfire and sunfire incessantly won't feel so slow. I kind of wish Balance had a talent like it used to for LS and SW to extend the dots, or a talent like shadows misery to apply both with a single cast.

How do all of you guys feel about this? do you like maintain 2 dots with manual recasts constantly? what do you think of the idea of this playstyle?
06/14/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Wardstar
How do all of you guys feel about this? do you like maintain 2 dots with manual recasts constantly? what do you think of the idea of this playstyle?
I think managing dots on any class is a mindless chore that equates to having a weakaura up that tells you when to push button A and B.

Dots are fine if they're part of an active ability (looking at you ignite).

All that being said, I think your experience was just a fluke or you didn't compare actual numbers enough. Moonfire and Sunfire are big portions of moonkin's damage.
06/14/2018 11:20 PMPosted by Dumb
06/14/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Wardstar
How do all of you guys feel about this? do you like maintain 2 dots with manual recasts constantly? what do you think of the idea of this playstyle?
I think managing dots on any class is a mindless chore that equates to having a weakaura up that tells you when to push button A and B.

Dots are fine if they're part of an active ability (looking at you ignite).

All that being said, I think your experience was just a fluke or you didn't compare actual numbers enough. Moonfire and Sunfire are big portions of moonkin's damage.


You make a good point. I think I'll spend some time directly comparing damage numbers. I think one of the reasons this felt so fun to play is because adding moonfire and sunfire into the rotation isn't just 1 GCD to refresh but 2. and as a result it's very jaring to the flow of casting to stop and refresh them. Stellar flare lacks any real synergy with the spec outsiDe of damage and if its damage was cut in half, but it refreshed moonfire and sunfire when cast on a target I think it would help this out immensely.
06/14/2018 11:31 PMPosted by Wardstar
You make a good point. I think I'll spend some time directly comparing damage numbers. I think one of the reasons this felt so fun to play is because adding moonfire and sunfire into the rotation isn't just 1 GCD to refresh but 2. and as a result it's very jaring to the flow of casting to stop and refresh them. Stellar flare lacks any real synergy with the spec outsiDe of damage and if its damage was cut in half, but it refreshed moonfire and sunfire when cast on a target I think it would help this out immensely.
Don't say i didn't warn you, but apparently plenty of other people disagree with your opinion, and likely you'll get flank for saying that.

On live, Nature's Balance is allowing you to press less MF/SF in your ST rotation. But lots of people claiming it makes things 'less engaging' for single target, and the developers agree. Some even try to sell the same idea that Sabertooth needs to be rework too by using the same concept of 'less engaging'.

Apparently 'less engaging' is a serious crime and needs to be fixed asap, because even if they don't use the talent at all it still needs to be engaging.
06/14/2018 11:46 PMPosted by Butterbao
06/14/2018 11:31 PMPosted by Wardstar
You make a good point. I think I'll spend some time directly comparing damage numbers. I think one of the reasons this felt so fun to play is because adding moonfire and sunfire into the rotation isn't just 1 GCD to refresh but 2. and as a result it's very jaring to the flow of casting to stop and refresh them. Stellar flare lacks any real synergy with the spec outsiDe of damage and if its damage was cut in half, but it refreshed moonfire and sunfire when cast on a target I think it would help this out immensely.
Don't say i didn't warn you, but apparently plenty of other people disagree with your opinion, and likely you'll get flank for saying that.

On live, Nature's Balance is allowing you to press less MF/SF in your ST rotation. But lots of people claiming it makes things 'less engaging' for single target, and the developers agree. Some even try to sell the same idea that Sabertooth needs to be rework too by using the same concept of 'less engaging'.

Apparently 'less engaging' is a serious crime and needs to be fixed asap, because even if they don't use the talent at all it still needs to be engaging.


I can understand that. I remember everyone being upset when insect swarm was removed and there was only moonfire for a dot. Personally I mained other casters like destruction, arcane and elemental and the steady casting rhythm of those styles of specs I enjoy, and thats how I'm approaching this and why I'm not liking the 2GCD refresh cycle. But I know it's been a mainstay of boomies for a long time and I respect that. I'm just exploring a possible sister playstyle.
06/14/2018 11:20 PMPosted by Dumb
I think managing dots on any class is a mindless chore that equates to having a weakaura up that tells you when to push button A and B.
this is why i hate boomkin, the dots are shoehorned in, at least with shadow/afflic the spec is built around dots.

i hate having to maintain buffs on my enh shaman, reupping the buffs every 10-20 seconds breaks the gameplay of enh shaman which is crazy stormstrike spam.\
i hated inquisition in cata and mop yet here we are, inquisition is the top simming talent for the top13 ret talent builds. its not fun or interesting to refresh the buff.
06/15/2018 12:55 AMPosted by Ascetic
06/14/2018 11:20 PMPosted by Dumb
I think managing dots on any class is a mindless chore that equates to having a weakaura up that tells you when to push button A and B.
this is why i hate boomkin, the dots are shoehorned in, at least with shadow/afflic the spec is built around dots.

[/quote]

To be fair, in Legion, Boomkin DoTs were primary drivers for AoE dps (and even ST dps with Dad Build). It's only in BFA that MF/SF power has been nerfed a bit (probably because they've toned down all AoE across all specs).

Moonfire/Sunfire are still some of the highest damage per cast abilities in the kit and you can plan your movement windows around re-applying them.
06/14/2018 11:20 PMPosted by Dumb
06/14/2018 11:12 PMPosted by Wardstar
How do all of you guys feel about this? do you like maintain 2 dots with manual recasts constantly? what do you think of the idea of this playstyle?
I think managing dots on any class is a mindless chore that equates to having a weakaura up that tells you when to push button A and B.

Dots are fine if they're part of an active ability (looking at you ignite).

All that being said, I think your experience was just a fluke or you didn't compare actual numbers enough. Moonfire and Sunfire are big portions of moonkin's damage.


in my opinion all dots for all classes should last 30 secs so u dont have to constantly reapply them every 6-18 seconds....

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