"Divine Crusader" / Empowered Divine Storm

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
As it stands right now, Retibution has huge gaps in it's rotation compared to Legion, no baseline procs to make things interesting, and many other issues including Mobility, AoE and more.

In WoD (also in MoP with the tier 16, 4 set bonus) Retribution had a passive ability called "Divine Crusader" / "Empowered Divine Storm" baseline.
Divine Crusader - Holy Power consumers have a 25% chance to make your next Divine Storm free and deal X% more damage.

This allowed Divine Storm to be used in the single target rotation and also was a boost to AoE damage, not to mention it made the rotation significantly more interesting and a bit reminiscent of WOTLK when Divine Storm was Rets signature ability.

Now with Retributions rotation being pruned / slowed down, it would be the perfect time to bring this passive ability back. If not baseline, as a replacement for the talent "Divine Judgment" which doesn't fit the tier of talents it's paired with (Consecration and Wake of Ashes).

The spec is in desperate need of interesting baseline mechanics / procs to make it not feel like a pruned version of Legion.

- Sincerely,
A very concerned Retribution main
Ret definitely needs a proc.
At this point I don't care if it's Exo+Art of War, Blade of Wrath, Divine Purpose, or Empowered Divine Storm -- as long as we get one!

If it is Empowered DS (and even if it's not), they really need to give us back the old animation for Divine Storm. Compared to what it's been in the past, the current one is quite terrible.
On board with any of these suggestions.
ETA on someone lumbering into this thread, mentioning Crusader strike CD and saying everything else is perfectly fine:
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06/08/2018 11:37 AMPosted by Tbolt
Ret definitely needs a proc.
At this point I don't care if it's Exo+Art of War, Blade of Wrath, Divine Purpose, or Empowered Divine Storm -- as long as we get one!

If it is Empowered DS (and even if it's not), they really need to give us back the old animation for Divine Storm. Compared to what it's been in the past, the current one is quite terrible.


Agreed! The old animation looked a lot better, especially compared to the BFA version that ends much sooner and lacks the "Storm / Lightning" it use to have.
06/08/2018 12:15 PMPosted by Ahrmanhamma
mentioning Crusader strike CD and saying everything else is perfectly fine:


We can have a glaring issue that requires focus. Doesn't mean everything is fine, don't put words in people's mouths.

I think Crusader Strike cooldown is and should be the first and foremost to be addressed as it is the sole reason we have the wait times we have in BfA compared to Legion.

Once the wait times are addressed, we can address the other issues like Divine Judgment being completely out of place where it is, Consecrate being Consecrate (Holy/Prot got a mobility fix to it), mobility itself (way too low in Legion, worse in BfA).
06/08/2018 12:15 PMPosted by Ahrmanhamma
ETA on someone lumbering into this thread, mentioning Crusader strike CD and saying everything else is perfectly fine:
3....
2....
1....

xD
I'm all for a cd reduction of CS.
But I also want a baseline proc. Divine Crusader would be veeery cool...but is unlikely to happen. Blizzard doesn't want us to cleave. And that's exactly what DS would do as soon as you could use it on single target. And it must be tuned to be usable on single target to have a purpose at all. What use has a proc, that occurs in single target situations but you wouldn't use it because it would be a damage loss?
06/08/2018 12:23 PMPosted by Nyc
Agreed! The old animation looked a lot better, especially compared to the BFA version that ends much sooner and lacks the "Storm / Lightning" it use to have.


Definitely.
The BfA version does doesn't correlate with divine or storm. Someone in another thread linked a YT of DS back in Wrath (I think) and it makes every version since look like hot garbage. I have no idea why they would take something so good out of the game.

06/08/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Belerian
But I also want a baseline proc. Divine Crusader would be veeery cool...but is unlikely to happen. Blizzard doesn't want us to cleave. And that's exactly what DS would do as soon as you could use it on single target. And it must be tuned to be usable on single target to have a purpose at all. What use has a proc, that occurs in single target situations but you wouldn't use it because it would be a damage loss?


Putting aside the fact that not being able to cleave in today's M+ WoW is a terrible niche, it'd be a proc and our AoE/cleave is quite lackluster already so I don't see it as a large issue.
It wouldn't be an issue for me either, but Blizzard has stated their design philosphy on this quite clearly. Cleaveis only for Arms, Destruction an Frost Mage. Dumb idea, but it is what it is.
06/08/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Belerian
It wouldn't be an issue for me either, but Blizzard has stated their design philosphy on this quite clearly. Cleaveis only for Arms, Destruction an Frost Mage. Dumb idea, but it is what it is.


Obviously tuning would play a factor, but I'm saying that one proc that makes DS's crappy damage better some of the time is not going to all of a sudden make us into cleave monsters like warriors.
06/08/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Belerian
It wouldn't be an issue for me either, but Blizzard has stated their design philosphy on this quite clearly. Cleaveis only for Arms, Destruction an Frost Mage. Dumb idea, but it is what it is.


Even with Divine Crusader procs, Ret AoE would still be drastically reduced from Legion. No more Divine Hammer, Greater Judgment or AoE Zeal. So hopefully that isn't what would be holding them back from adding it.
Agreed, ret needs a good fun proc. It could also benefit from lower cooldown on crusader strike or judgment.

I loved wod ret, moving back to it would be a step forward imo.
06/08/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Belerian

xD
I'm all for a cd reduction of CS.
But I also want a baseline proc.


Ditto and ditto. Crusader Strike obviously needs adjustment if for no other reason than the nerf was unjustified, but that's like begging for the crumbs they took from us and I don't think people should settle for that. I have some faith that Blizzard will come around eventually, they typically do, but I'm just not seeing much to be excited about in Ret right now, and conversely I'll point out that Holy Wrath has been a talent option for the entirety of Legion, so really what do I know?

The pruning just keeps coming and coming and some of these specs are at a point right now where they are just not fun to play. I'm not sure they really understand just how hard they hit some specs when they do this; Enhancement Shaman is still a mess right now and my list of viable mains for BFA is dwindling. There are little glimmers of hope in some of the Ret talents - I made a post in one of the threads about trying to figure out a viable Execution Sentence build, but there's also plenty of things that just straight up don't fit, and it doesn't seem like Blizz has us in their sights for a significant 2nd pass before launch. I'd hate for BFA to go live with Ret in this "functional, but not very fun" state. Downtime or no, that's pretty close to what Ret is on Beta.

I'm also really worried about our AoE because M+ was my favorite part of Legion. 20+ Keys were already pretty comp restrictive and now it's looking to be even moreso. As it stands I'm probably going to end up going Prot for those...
06/08/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Ahrmanhamma
I'm also really worried about our AoE because M+ was my favorite part of Legion.


A lot of classes had their AoE reduced, it's not just a Retribution issue. AoE accross the board is weaker now.

06/08/2018 03:21 PMPosted by Ahrmanhamma
20+ Keys were already pretty comp restrictive and now it's looking to be even moreso.


Well I mean for now, for 20+ keys, you'll be a Monk or Demon Hunter as melee. 5% damage buffs to physical/magic are just too big for small 5 man content to ignore. So there's that elephant in the room to solve before you even tackle AoE.
Well, if you bring a DH for your melee, you've probably also addressed your AoE as well, and you'll want a Hunter for Misdirect and they have all kinds of utility through their pet. Bring a Lock or (not Arcane) Mage as the last DPS, and you're set.

If you take a VDH for your tank you can bring a Monk DPS and have both buffs.

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