[Feedback] Balance Druid: Rotation & Talents

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Fury of Elune

I just want to address this talent specifically, as I'm really enjoying this talent as a replacement for New Moon. However, I miss the old talent's option of:
"While Fury of Elune is active, you may recast it for no cost to direct the beam to move to a new location."

With such a long cooldown, it is beyond frustrating if I accidentally cast it on a low health target and don't get the full use of its damage through its duration.

I also feel that it needs an AP generation buff to align with New Moon.
06/04/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Cyouskin
How do people feel about Renewal, Tiger Dash, and Wild Charge?
Renewal: Never used it. I get the idea & it's niche uses, but not very practical in most cases. Bake it into 'Resto Affinity' & put Displacer Beast (DB) back in this spot.

Tiger Dash: Not an equitable DB replacement. I like that it allows maneuverable burst instead of point-to-point movement, but replacing 'Dash' & longer CD aren't worth it. Give it 2 charges & an appropriate recharge time or change it to a Boomy friendly spell that doesn't cause a form change & allows casting.

Wild Charge: No issues, though I'd like to see the Non-Shapeshifted function changed to the travel form movement ability.
I like the addition of twin moons, but it only seems to hit a second target 50% of the time.
06/05/2018 02:21 PMPosted by Zuktuul

Tiger Dash: Not an equitable DB replacement. I like that it allows maneuverable burst instead of point-to-point movement, but replacing 'Dash' & longer CD aren't worth it. Give it 2 charges & an appropriate recharge time or change it to a Boomy friendly spell that doesn't cause a form change & allows casting.


Tiger Dash if it didn't require Cat Form would actually be usable. Tiger's Dash + Warrior of Elune in Mythic+ content sounds like the dream to me.
06/05/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Erithmael
With such a long cooldown, it is beyond frustrating if I accidentally cast it on a low health target and don't get the full use of its damage through its duration.

Why not just... not use it? If you cast Starsurge on a low-health enemy and the enemy dies before the damage hits, you don't get refunded your Astral Power.

It's effectively an 8sec DOT.
06/05/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Cyouskin
06/05/2018 01:31 PMPosted by Erithmael
With such a long cooldown, it is beyond frustrating if I accidentally cast it on a low health target and don't get the full use of its damage through its duration.

Why not just... not use it? If you cast Starsurge on a low-health enemy and the enemy dies before the damage hits, you don't get refunded your Astral Power.

It's effectively an 8sec DOT.

Well, I guess it's that the redirection was baked in before. It doesn't feel good to lose functionality.

I can easily "earn back" a starsurge in the situation described within 10 seconds. With FoE, I have to wait over a minute to try again. It doesn't feel good, and I liked the option to redirect the damage.
06/04/2018 11:29 PMPosted by Cyouskin
How do people feel about Renewal, Tiger Dash, and Wild Charge?

I rarely use renewal except in some solo content, but I'm usually more concerned with mobility for solo content rather than adding an additional heal. I agree with the other comments that I'd like it baked into Resto affinity.

Tiger Dash- I tried it out, but don't like that it replaces Dash. I preferred having Displacer Beast in addition to Dash. I will probably take this for soloing dungeons or fights with long distance mobility, like Immonar.

Wild Charge has gotten more intuitive as I've played, but trying to remember what happens with which form, then what order to press buttons and which buttons to hotkey it to and whether I need to target friendly vs. enemy... it's a bit of a logistical mess in my head.

The backward bound in Moonkin form has been EXCELLENT in Antorus- The distance is perfect for H Vari debuff control, and it's great for moving away from Aggramar after Taeshalach technique. It's my current go-to.

Now, what to put in Renewal's place? Something for mobility... I don't know. I guess I'd like to see a longer levitate-like flap buff that allows casting. Sounds silly, but it could have a niche.
06/05/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Erithmael


Now, what to put in Renewal's place? Something for mobility... I don't know. I guess I'd like to see a longer levitate-like flap buff that allows casting. Sounds silly, but it could have a niche.


A passive that allows travel form to work in-doors? I don't know. As an additional use that wouldn't make it useless in outdoor areas, maybe it always makes travel form sit at 100% movement speed, whether you're in combat or not.

Better movement in a longer run but requires you be dedicated to staying in travel form, doesn't cheese mechanics like Blink allowed us to and plays with the concept of shapeshifting. Probably wouldn't see much use outside of niche fights but that's because Wild Charge is too good as-is.
They could do something like dream simulacrum that would basically be a demonic circle, but since locks don't even have that baseline anymore they'd probably go ballistic (and I wouldn't blame them).

Wild charge is actually too all-encompassing. A blink was the only thing that could compete with it because it's a leap/disengage/charge/shadowstep all in one. Remove the blink and how do you top that?
Since we seem to agree that Renewal is out of place is that row, I wonder how Stampeding Roar would fit in its place. I think the choice between that and wild charge would be interesting.
Stampeding Roar would be too strong and wouldn't fix Renewal as an option for Feral. Maybe if it's a self buff only that wouldn't overwrite Stampeding Roar, though that'd simply be Tiger Dash without the cat form requirement.
Since this is the Moonkin thread...

Stampeding Squack?
How would you guys feel if Stellar Empowerment was reworked? Main issue is late-scaling with how strong Mastery becomes (in Legion).
06/06/2018 11:11 PMPosted by Cyouskin
How would you guys feel if Stellar Empowerment was reworked? Main issue is late-scaling with how strong Mastery becomes (in Legion).

Rework or remove and just straight up buff dot and starfall damage.

The requirement for full dots and astral power before AOEing puts us severely behind other classes upfront aoe
What about reworking our dots to something like Resto's mastery? Instead of stellar empowerment from SF needed to shoot through the roof, dot ticks do x% more per dot on them? That would make stellar flare either a must-take or baselined, and it would still let SF have an extra layering to it.

It's either that or split stellar empowerment more onto starfall so there's not such a penalty to NOT having moonfire up on targets and instead blanketing sunfire and laying down a stronger SF
If Starfall applied Moonfire it would solve the gcd/ap generation problem, where we can't both apply Moonfire and build ap (since the nerf to shooting stars). This would increase the value of stellar empowerment because it would almost always be affecting both dots.

OR just get rid Stellar Empowerment entirely, buff Starfall damage and remove the need to Moonfire at all in aoe situations. Then they could buff Moonfire damage for single target or make it interact with our rotation in some way that doesn't affect aoe (E.g. a stacking % increase to Starsurge on tick. Sunfire could do the same for Starfall.)
If they want us to keep our identity as a multidotter, Moonfire could do more % dmg for each one that is active as suggested above. But that has severe ramp up issues and makes balancing around our max aoe output difficult. We'd be suffering from the same problem we do currently.

Making Shooting Stars baseline would be the quickest fix to our ramp up for now. It's the simplest solution.
I'd prefer Stellar Empowerment being removed overall and Starfall buffed to compensate.

Less set-up for AoE in short burst windows so we're not finally getting going by the time everything is dead, though we'd still want all our DoTs up for sustainability on longer AoE phases.
Personally I enjoy Stellar Empowerment because I enjoy the flavor of having DoT-driven AoE rather than just dropping an AoE nuke a la Blizzard, Rain of Fire, Flamestrike, etc. but it does result in Mastery being very strong as it double dips.

The issue with boomkin AoE, as mentioned by many others, is that while most specs' resource generation scales very well with multiple targets, Balance's does not - mostly because of the Shooting Stars nerf. The Shooting Stars nerf is understandable as well: it was just so good on any multi-target fight that it would always be picked, meaning it dominates whatever talent row it would get put in.

It's easy to see why there is a case for making Shooting Stars (in its weaker iteration) baseline. If that's not a road the devs want to head down, other adjustments could help fix the problem: Lunar Strike could grant additional AsP for every enemy hit, Starfall's cost could be reduced for every enemy afffected by Moonfire, Fury of Elune's cooldown reduced for every enemy it hits.

Sidenote: I think it would be cool if Treants applied Moonfire rather than using melee attacks.
06/05/2018 10:56 PMPosted by Tewdee
06/05/2018 07:34 PMPosted by Erithmael


Now, what to put in Renewal's place? Something for mobility... I don't know. I guess I'd like to see a longer levitate-like flap buff that allows casting. Sounds silly, but it could have a niche.


A passive that allows travel form to work in-doors? I don't know. As an additional use that wouldn't make it useless in outdoor areas, maybe it always makes travel form sit at 100% movement speed, whether you're in combat or not.

Better movement in a longer run but requires you be dedicated to staying in travel form, doesn't cheese mechanics like Blink allowed us to and plays with the concept of shapeshifting. Probably wouldn't see much use outside of niche fights but that's because Wild Charge is too good as-is.


Wild Charge was never picked over DB yet now it’s too good?

This is why things get nerfed, because you people accept them turning all our options into the least !@#$ty one.
06/07/2018 10:41 AMPosted by Tinieblas
Wild Charge was never picked over DB yet now it’s too good?

This is why things get nerfed, because you people accept them turning all our options into the least !@#$ty one.


Why don't you go take a peek at Warcraftlogs and see which talent is unanimously picked...

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