Mythic+ Dungeon Feedback

BFA Dungeons, Island Expeditions, and Raids
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Mythic+ Keystone Dungeons are now available for testing. After completing a Mythic dungeon, you should receive a random keystone.

Please use this thread for any Mythic+ feedback that you have.
Waycrest Manor had a really high trash requirement, we had to go around into a bunch of side rooms after killing all the bosses to get proper percent.

Also I really disliked being unable to change azerite armor mid dungeon, switching between different traits for bosses and stuff was something I was really looking forward to.

Edit: Upon further review, I cannot change ANY gear after the key has started. This is awful, one of my favorite parts about m+ was finding uses for things that are otherwise not used much, such as aoe trinkets. We have no more customizability with this, really hope it's a bug.
06/12/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Shamxd
Also I really disliked being unable to change azerite armor mid dungeon, switching between different traits for bosses and stuff was something I was really looking forward to.


Wait what? You can't change the gear out once you start the timer? I assume you mean that, and not like, you can't change the traits on gear etc.

That's absurd if so. That NEEDS to change.
Did Ataldazar +2, it was pretty easy, trash count was pretty much perfect (we reached it just before last boss without skipping anything absurd).

Thirding that no gear swaps is really stupid. A lot of the fun of doing m+ is mixing and matching gear sets, trinkets, legendaries (in legion), etc. between pulls to optimize. Maybe Blizzard sees that as a chore or something but I can say that among the people I play with we like having the customization that gear sets offer. Its an interesting mechanic.
06/12/2018 06:48 PMPosted by Shamxd


Also I really disliked being unable to change azerite armor mid dungeon, switching between different traits for bosses and stuff was something I was really looking forward to.


Can we get clarification on whether this is intentional? Knowing what gear to use for certain pulls, and optimizing those choices is part of what separates good players from great players and is a key part of the Mythic+ system currently.
06/12/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Wait what? You can't change the gear out once you start the timer?


Mythic+ being talent locked and spec locked is understandable but being gear locked? I hope this is a bug.
06/12/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Hòóligan
06/12/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Metrohaha
Wait what? You can't change the gear out once you start the timer?


Mythic+ being talent locked and spec locked is understandable but being gear locked? I hope this is a bug.


If it isn't its the most restrictive change that has ever been made to any pve content.
I don't see a point to adding Azerite gear which is offering TONS of customization and actually allowing realistic acquisition rates, then restricting it in the content it was seemingly made for.

I have a feeling this wont be changed though if it ends up being intentional.
Nnogga's famous weak aura to add extra slots to the gear manager does indicate that its a bit out of control, but still - this is a huge part of dungeon maximization and the skill in such.

What's next? Removing the ability to pre-pot?
Healed a Temple of Sethraliss +6. Trash count was good. The first 3 bosses were easy enough (fortified week). The trash was not bad, and we were able to deal with Sanguine for everything. The first three bosses we 1-shot, we wiped on many trash packs (our tank was pulling too fast) and the last boss took us 4 attempts, the last encounter wasn't as bad as I thought it would healing as Disc.
(BUG) The 6 Adds before Galvazzt (that are needed to summon him) did not drop sanguine pools when they were defeated, instead, they dropped them under the boss when they merged into him.
(BUG) On our second attempt of Avatar of Sethraliss One of the Guardians dropped a sanguine pool, which was unexpected, I'm not sure if these dropping during boss encounters was intended. He didn't do it in future attempts.

Avatar of Sethraliss
[Rain of Toads] Toads spawned and surrounded me and I was quickly given a few stacks of Plague. I was able to dispel them, but a healer without a dispel may suffer greatly. I liked though that the Snake Polymorph competed with the Dispel CD. I'm sure with practice the fros will be easy to avoid.
I'm not sure if the 2nd wave of Hexxers being spawned was timed or was based on the Avatar's Health %, but they spawned VERY quickly after the first wave died, to where I had less than 3 seconds to heal without a Taint debuff. After the second wave died, I had essentially free time to rest until the boss was healed up. I did stand and wait a good 15 seconds for my Mana CDs to come back up before continuing, and there was nothing to punish me.
The third wave of this fight was very easy with the haste buff.

Very fun dungeon, I'm also glad the trash in Bazaar did not drop Sanguine.

[Loot] The normal/Heroic/Mythic0 Versions of this dungeon spawn a chest at the end with loot. In a mythic +, that chest still spawned, but was empty, and a second chest spawned in the back of the room.
[BUG] We were given two Pieces of M+2 Gear (345 and 355), 5 Hydrocores between the group, and I received 475 Artifact Power.
I just did Warcrest Manor +2 in a pug with random people on group finder, trash count ended up perfect for us but we weren't trying to skip trash much.

The second boss took forever to respawn when we wiped on him. We all had to get loot out of the mailbox at the end, no chest spawned or anything.

Good dungeon but annoying as balance druid, a lot of the time if you use your AOE you end up overpulling.
whow, no gear swapping feels like a punch below the belt :( This is only going to amplify the effects of poor class design / balance, will tighten the meta aspects, put emphases on classes that have it all. Legion is an example of how classes/specs can languish in obscurity in m+ while other basically hit 110 with 5k rating.

This really takes the wind out of my BFA sails :(
Did Tol Dagor +8. Some trash mobs hit incredibly hard (approx 60-80% of a tank's hp). Necrotic is incredibly punishing in the new tank / healer relationship. If my tank isn't kiting past 15 stacks of necrotic, he's just dead in the next 2 seconds because with 0 stacks of necrotic I can keep him topped, but anything more than 7 stacks is a struggle. While I understand that necrotic is to be countered by kiting, the new threat generation makes kiting quite difficult without DPS members getting smacked for a large majority of their HP.

Just some thoughts about the bosses - everything is fine except the last boss. The heartstopper poison mechanic is incredibly punishing if you over move. You have to have near perfect movement to avoid getting stunned.
Tank disparity pretty noticeable. Mark of the Hidden Satyr still a thing. (only 5% of damage). Earthlink still OP. (probably good for testing higher keys).

Waycrest manor +2, mobs at end (Gloom Horror) don't give %. We didn't skip any trash and ended up fairly short (~80%) on mob count. Timer felt just about right.

Freehold +2: Timer felt a little bit tight. We had quite a few wipes though. Warrior tank died a lot for a +2. Trash pull leading to 2nd boss where you get 3 packs together was very painful. Total trash count was pretty accurate. We skipped some packs and had to make up for it later. Powder shot nerf was welcome. Melee died very consistently to mob ability Backhand.

Atal'Dazar +2: Trash count was right on point. We only skipped miniboss in center and reached exactly 100%. Timer might be about 1 minute to long. Easily 3 chest with 5 ish deaths and medium dps. Priestess Alunza felt undertuned. Yazma was also noticeably nerfed.
The not being able to swap gear has a lot of different aspects to it and here are some of my thoughts:

From a consistency standpoint it likely makes sense. You already can’t swap talents or specs inside the dungeon. And that’s pretty much accepted as fine even though the amount of tools you’d have access to would go way up if you could do so.

There is also a different kind of strategy needed for not being able to swap gear. Now you need to decide beforehand if you want gear to specialize against trash or bosses. This is similar to certain raid fights which have aoe phases. Some people are assigned to run aoe spec and gear while some go single target.

And speaking of raids, no one even thinks about being able to swap gear during a raid fight despite the fact that it would add a lot more options to what you can do. That’s never asked for. So why should you be able to swap gear during a M+ run? You already can’t swap talents so they likely view M+ as 1 very long raid encounter.
Necrotic has never been my (or anyone elses) favorite affix, but with the paradigm shift in tank sustainability and external healing required, it's just awful.

With a full group of 340 people (Vengeance, Disc Priest) we easily went up to +7 (upgraded keystone by 3 and 2) without feeling really challenged in respect to throughput.
Once necrotic came into play, it just wasn't playable anymore. We left the dungeon before we could reach the first boss of Freehold.
06/13/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Ningjinq
The not being able to swap gear has a lot of different aspects to it and here are some of my thoughts:

From a consistency standpoint it likely makes sense. You already can’t swap talents or specs inside the dungeon. And that’s pretty much accepted as fine even though the amount of tools you’d have access to would go way up if you could do so.

There is also a different kind of strategy needed for not being able to swap gear. Now you need to decide beforehand if you want gear to specialize against trash or bosses. This is similar to certain raid fights which have aoe phases. Some people are assigned to run aoe spec and gear while some go single target.

And speaking of raids, no one even thinks about being able to swap gear during a raid fight despite the fact that it would add a lot more options to what you can do. That’s never asked for. So why should you be able to swap gear during a M+ run? You already can’t swap talents so they likely view M+ as 1 very long raid encounter.


I agree. gear swapping, It's strange that it's a thing. Plus early on when your constantly upgrading gear all the time maintaining several gear sets would be really annoying.
06/13/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Ningjinq
So why should you be able to swap gear during a M+ run?

Because the in and out of combat aspect of 5 mans has long been one of the most consistently important elements of maximization.
Pre-potting into a big pull with the right legendaries on is SUCH a big dps increase over just wearing whatever and only potting on bosses or in combat.

Its NOT one long raid encounter, and nor should it be considered one.
Talents make sense because they permanently alter what spells you have.
Swapping gear does not give you access to new spells or abilities.
It adds a layer of customization that astute players tune in for, and without it it takes a LOT of the skill out of dungeons.

It turns things like Sephuz and Prydaz swaps into never used items, and likely creates a WEAKER balance outlook for those in charge.
I know it might SEEM like it is going to create a more competitive environment but it will completely marginalize any Azerite trait that doesn't have impact as often as possible, so things like the Speed boost on March of the Damned is now entirely useless.
There was a chance it would see some big use as part of a new "speed set" for DKs, but now it has no purpose, as you are never going to actually use that over a power-up in "combat."

Make the right choice guys. Dungeons have always been about manipulating the in and out of combat situation and finding cool tricks to maximize your play.
Raids are where the tight restrictive elements need to be present.

Leave this sort of thing in the MDI, and let the regular players enjoy collecting and iterating on their gear.
I actually like the change of not being able to swap gear. Agree with people that necrotic could cause big issues with current tanking paradigm.
Bottom line, less optimization is bad. It will completely lock some classes out of being taken to M+ outside of a static group of friends.
06/13/2018 08:05 AMPosted by Metrohaha
06/13/2018 07:35 AMPosted by Ningjinq
So why should you be able to swap gear during a M+ run?

Because the in and out of combat aspect of 5 mans has long been one of the most consistently important elements of maximization.
Pre-potting into a big pull with the right legendaries on is SUCH a big dps increase over just wearing whatever and only potting on bosses or in combat.

Its NOT one long raid encounter, and nor should it be considered one.
Talents make sense because they permanently alter what spells you have.
Swapping gear does not give you access to new spells or abilities.
It adds a layer of customization that astute players tune in for, and without it it takes a LOT of the skill out of dungeons.

It turns things like Sephuz and Prydaz swaps into never used items, and likely creates a WEAKER balance outlook for those in charge.
I know it might SEEM like it is going to create a more competitive environment but it will completely marginalize any Azerite trait that doesn't have impact as often as possible, so things like the Speed boost on March of the Damned is now entirely useless.
There was a chance it would see some big use as part of a new "speed set" for DKs, but now it has no purpose, as you are never going to actually use that over a power-up in "combat."

Make the right choice guys. Dungeons have always been about manipulating the in and out of combat situation and finding cool tricks to maximize your play.
Raids are where the tight restrictive elements need to be present.

Leave this sort of thing in the MDI, and let the regular players enjoy collecting and iterating on their gear.


But then why can’t you change talents in a M+? You can do that in a regular dungeon.

For all intents and purposes, trinkets are the same as talents. Particularly the on use ones.
Hey just a quick question, do you need to be at 120 and geared to test mythic+?

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