The Future of M+ (Feedback)

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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There isn't much I could say that hasn't already been said. Agreed, though!
So they’re nerfing aoe for most classes and now they’re locking us into gear for M+.

M+ is gonna suck.

Nerf to AoE, stat squish, pruning of classes, no tier ... BfA is just an expac of loss.
06/13/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Odinsigil
I don't like the ever-increasing reliance tanks have on healers with no new gameplay added
I agree with everything you mentioned except for this (and GCD changes I think are a net positive for the game, but I digress on that).

Tanks relying on healers is not a bad thing.
Well written, +1.
06/13/2018 05:55 PMPosted by Odinsigil

I'm not impressed with Azerite Armor.
I'm not looking forward to losing complexity in every class I play from loss of artifact / legendaries.
I don't want to even get started on GCD changes.
Tank threat to force non-kiting... really?
Expeditions look underwhelming.
I don't like the ever-increasing reliance tanks have on healers with no new gameplay added (and if you mention threat as tank gameplay, so help me...)
Now I'm not looking forward to M+ anymore.


Realistically they are addressing issues that currently plague M+ in Legion, but they’re going about many of the changes the wrong way.

Healer agency is an actual issue in Legion dungeons. Healers as a role have 0 impact over the course of the whole dungeon outside of healing 1 or 2 bosses. Preventing kiting should be addressed, but having tanks do 0 threat is not fun especially when there are threat drop mechanics in dungeons. Like those and one shot mechanics should be addressed as a whole, but the way they have addressed them is inappropriate.
Agreed with all of your post, Tettles. I've been waiting and waiting for them to address many of the issues with m+ but it feels like they're just taking it in the wrong direction.
06/13/2018 06:21 PMPosted by Aedrid
Must make it easier to adapt to PS4. That’s where all this is headed anyway.


Also it is so the MDI announcers don’t have to explain all the gear anymore
06/13/2018 05:03 PMPosted by Shamxd
Completely agree, this change is overtly negative.

M+ is simply not set up like a raid boss, there are way too many different situations that need to be handled in different ways. This is essentially removing our ability to handle it, we are being forced to just bring classes that can do it all.

Completely disregarding performance issues, it's also just not fun. Sitting there thinking about where you want to cripple yourself, and how much defensives you need for the last boss of a dungeon before even starting the dungeon is very far from engaging gameplay.

Legion m+ is excellent, the only real issue is specific specs being out of control, tanks kiting, and some bosses being too punishing. Work on the problems from Legion, don't try to fix something that isn't broken.


The amount I agree with this is unreal. This change is bad. I was looking forward to having multiple gear sets for every situation because of azerite armor, be it aoe, st, super defensive, kinda defensive etc. this change is now pick a mix and hope it’s ok or go overboard and wear your titanguard the entire dungeon. If people don’t want to swap gear, you almost never have too to some extent even in legion, will you get world firsts? Absolutely not. Will you be able to complete dungeons in time even above the weekly cache requirement? Absolutely.

Overall this change is hugely souring on a laundry list of questionable class changes.
In mythic raiding you can change gear between bosses, so why not for mythic+? It is not like the changes are happening mid-fight, just before and after fights, like every raid boss. Different bosses require different set-ups, if this isn't what Blizz wants then they need to make certain gear/talents not required.
06/14/2018 08:00 AMPosted by Argenon
In mythic raiding you can change gear between bosses, so why not for mythic+? It is not like the changes are happening mid-fight, just before and after fights, like every raid boss. Different bosses require different set-ups, if this isn't what Blizz wants then they need to make certain gear/talents not required.


I think they should focus on making certain specs obsolete in M+ first.
Just the need for this conversation shows how weak Azurite Armor and class design is. The idea that we have mechanics that prevent some classes from being viable shows a failed system. Should not be reliant on a lucky RNG trinket drop or armor effect to save me. What if I don't have trinket "X" from raid boss "Y"? Talents or base line abilities should cover theses things in a Mythic plus.
The change will allow them to balance m+ around the state of the classes throughout the expansion without major changes to the classes/specs. The dungeons mechanics don’t change throughout the expansion unlike the raid tiers/ items available from those raids.

Whether or not they actually adjust based on the state of the game is a wait and see kind of thing though
M+ dungeons were not designed for competitive pushing. Every spec in the game can easily complete a +15. But when it comes to pushing the highest possible key it will end up coming to meta play, you have 36 specs in the game and only 5 slots, it's impossible to balance everyone without major homogenization.

@topic
I don't think not changing gear has a huge impact in skill level like some of the players are saying specially now with the loss of legendaries. It's all to prevent cheesing and I don't think cheese = skill. Sounds pretty annoying to me having to change between 10 azerite armor pieces and 4 trinkets. High end level play is about adapting and I'm sure we'll see better game play at MDI than a BDK kitting a bunch of mobs for 3 minutes.
06/14/2018 09:57 AMPosted by Jaflex
Whether or not they actually adjust based on the state of the game is a wait and see kind of thing though


They won't.

06/14/2018 09:59 AMPosted by Kni
M+ dungeons were not designed for competitive pushing.


The MDI says hi.
Completely agree with this post. Hopefully it gets changed.
It really just feels like the only reason they are implementing this is for the sake of changing a system that already worked in a [soon to be] previous expansion to "freshen it up". Completely unnecessary.
All this change does, like the OP said was reduce the viability of high end m+ to immunity classes. Youre going to hit a point where X class is not invited bc they will die on a high level key and the good classes can push 5+ levels higher than the other class. There is no grey area in this change. It just pushed the majority of the 30+ specs in the game out of any major competition. To be quite honest, I do not know who these changes were aimed towards benefiting if anyone.

On top of all that, while Blizzard stated their intentions were to make m+ more competitively friendly, the mechanics and indicators have been nothing but the opposite. Even on low m+, instant mechanics taking half my hp, purple tentacles on purple floor with purple indicators. Dungeons requiring specific classes to purge, dispel, and cleanse life threatening buffs and debuffs.

This, in addition to making certain classes unviable, is just putting an artificial barrier on an infinitely scaling system of your own design.
06/14/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Borabank
This, in addition to making certain classes unviable, is just putting an artificial barrier on an infinitely scaling system of your own design.


So true!
TLDR: Changes only effect ~500 people, but they are still moving forward with it


Here's the thing Tettles: if I was a game dev and someone told me that I could make your day worse and screw over 499 other people at the same time, I'd launch that nuke every day of the week. This isn't about game design, it's about you being a rat !@#$.
Lock our gear when we enter a raid too, just end it.

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