Why timegate Pathfinder?

General Discussion
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06/18/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Drlightning
What if next expansion, it was an underground expansion so the entire expansion had to be done on ground mounts or using gnome/goblin tunnel mole machines for expedited travel. :P
I kinda like this idea. We can have a new allied race called Morlocks, an offshoot of the humans. Don't discuss their dietary habits though.
For money.

The longer it takes, the longer we play. The longer you play, the more you pay. Even if you buy tokens, because SOMEBODY threw real cash into the system for you to have a token to buy.

I won't pretend to like it, but I won't pretend it's gamebreaking, either. It works, both as a system to unlock flying, and as a motivation to keep playing/paying until it's unlocked.
06/18/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Pandaria

So, what is the purpose of time gating Pathfinder over the majority of the expansion?

Do you even play WoW? Because from this comment alone it sounds like you don't. Raids are gated. Surmar was gated. etc. Oh wahhhh flying (something that isn't actually needed in the game and more of a luxury except for in BC and Wrath when you NEEDED it for certain parts) you can't unlock right away and skip everything the devs made for us.

Also, you might was to take a business class because without gating (and RNG), then mmos wouldn't last at all. It is used in mmos so that way people aren't getting and completing everything in a couple of months. It keeps players subed which I am not sure if you are aware or not, but that is what helps keep WoW alive.

Can't handle the easy requirements for pathfinder then I guess no flying for you.
06/18/2018 09:59 AMPosted by Scuzz
For money.

The longer it takes, the longer we play. The longer you play, the more you pay. Even if you buy tokens, because SOMEBODY threw real cash into the system for you to have a token to buy.

I won't pretend to like it, but I won't pretend it's gamebreaking, either. It works, both as a system to unlock flying, and as a motivation to keep playing/paying until it's unlocked.


Just to play devil's advocate. I'd say that timegating actually has the potential to lose money. Once people finish the requirements, if they feel flying is integral to their personal enjoyment, there is no reason to stay subbed. However, if it weren't timegated, they would have little reason to unsub.

Note: I don't overly care either way about the timegate... just offering an alternate view to "cause money".
06/18/2018 10:03 AMPosted by Meritha
Just to play devil's advocate. I'd say that timegating actually has the potential to lose money. Once people finish the requirements, if they feel flying is integral to their personal enjoyment, there is no reason to stay subbed. However, if it weren't timegated, they would have little reason to unsub.

Note: I don't overly care either way about the timegate... just offering an alternate view to "cause money".


You make a valid point, and one I can even back up from personal experience. I took a break from Legion after I'd finished Pathfinder "part 1" and waited for "part 2". I really didn't feel I had any reason to play during that interval, so I didn't.

However, I buy my game time on a per-month basis (gave up subbing back in Cata), which I suspect puts me in a minority of players. Purely speculation on my part, but I'd be willing to bet most subbing players stayed subbed between part 1 and part 2, knowing that part 2 would show up "any day now".

That kind of thinking is definitely a gamble on Blizz's part, but they'd be the ones that have the data to say just how risky it would be.
You ask what is the purpose of Pathfinder?

I think it's to make obtaining flight such a major PITA that eventually few enough players do it so the devs can finally tell their evil, greedy overlords that "no one wants to fly" so they can remove it, which is what they wanted to do in the first place.

I will not be surprised if BfA has more than 2 parts to it. I also won't be surprised if dual factioning is required in order to get it. Although the blue stated that "you will not need both factions for Pathfinder 1" I am wary of language parsing here. Why not just state "you will not need both factions for Pathfinder"?

I am cautious about Blizzard's carefully worded statements these days and, suspicious of the motives behind Pathfinder.

PF does provide a nice reward for those who enjoy doing it; for millions of other players who either don't have enough alts to make it worth their while or, just don't want to bother, we would all prefer a gold at max level requirement... just as it was for 10 years before WoD.

Unlike the max level/gold method previously available, Pathfinder thus far, has never been fully available at launch. Previously, one could obtain max level and immediately purchase a flight license because flight was baked into the expansion from the start. This enabled players to enjoy flight throughout the expansion.

Neither WoD nor Legion had this feature; in WoD Pathfinder was baked in about a year and a half into the xpac; In Legion, it was 8 months. We still don't know about BfA and how many PF parts there will be or when flight will be made available.

All of this delay just engenders anger and frustration in the player base. Even people who like PF are upset about the constant delays and worse, the uncertainty.

Having flight available at launch was great because the minute you reached max level you could fly. Having to wait over or almost a year is absurd; by the time you get flight, you've been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the commemorative mug and the plaque.

It is unlikely that Blizzard is unaware of player frustration and anger over this issue; the fact that there have been no responsive changes to this pattern speaks volumes.
06/18/2018 09:34 AMPosted by Sahasarà
I actually love pathfinder. I am very happy to see it return. I am not being sarcastic, I genuinely love it. I love the immersion of my first play through, and the pacing of it.


What makes the game experience more immersive for you is not necessarily what would make it more immersive for someone else. This is certainly true when it comes to Pathfinder.

06/18/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Meritha
06/18/2018 09:41 AMPosted by Drlightning
What if next expansion, it was an underground expansion so the entire expansion had to be done on ground mounts or using gnome/goblin tunnel mole machines for expedited travel. :P
'

I get lost in 1 room caves. PLEASE NOTHING UNDERGROUND! :P


Hey, at least we can be pretty certain BfA Pathfinder won't require running around in all three of the silithid hives in Silithus!
06/18/2018 10:07 AMPosted by Scuzz
That kind of thinking is definitely a gamble on Blizz's part, but they'd be the ones that have the data to say just how risky it would be.


Your assessment is probably spot on, it's just something that popped into my head as I was reading your post. :)
06/18/2018 10:16 AMPosted by Meritha
Your assessment is probably spot on, it's just something that popped into my head as I was reading your post. :)


It's a good thought! And one that Blizz devs probably discussed at length when working on Pathfinder and other time gate mechanics. "How far can we go before we lose more than we gain?"

Pathfinder in WoD was (if I remember correctly) purely open-world PvE.
Pathfinder in Legion was all that, AND raiding (raid finder at minimum).
I expect Pathfinder in BFA will be all that, AND some form of PvP. "We're at war" will be the main argument, but really, it's just another way to stretch it further for just a little more potential profit.

And we have to remember, Blizz isn't making WoW out of the goodness of their hearts. It's their product, they're a business, people need paychecks. I just hope the balance of fun-to-profitable design doesn't get too skewed.
06/18/2018 09:27 AMPosted by Meritha
My personal opinion is that it falls into two parts (pun intended). Firstly, I think they wanted to make earning flying an accomplishment. Secondly, they wanted to make sure that 'everyone' was generally capable of earning it at the same time.

Just unlocking flying at date xxx would fail to provide the desired "earning", while not timegating it would fail to keep people mostly even.


While true, and I have no real problem with Pathfinder, it simply shouldn't exist in the first place. Flying wasn't an issue until Blizzard made it one.
The fact that people do not get this yet is mind boggling. It has absolutely nothing to do with making us "see" their wonderful art assets.

Pathfinder is there for one reason and one reason only. Extending content to make you play longer. Which is oddly enough the metric they are using other than subs now. Traveling on the ground for a quest makes tasks that would take 30 seconds take a few minutes. And travel time that might take two or three minutes in the air take ten on the ground. And they played it masterfully. They got us all so angry about their decision to remove flight that we would take any method of having it returned as a godsend at the time.
The brass tax is this. Blizzard owns WOW, and designs it to be played and experienced in a specific way.

Blizzard does not seem to be opposed to flying or allowing players to gain flying in new content, it has become a part of the game. What the developers seems to be doing is insuring that,
A:(Everyone can get flying at or around the same time, unlike in past expansions where only the elite could obtain it quickly and easily).
B: The content as designed is experienced as it was intended to be by the developers.
C: That there is sense of accomplishment upon unlocking the achievement.

For those players that stuck it out from the beginning of Legion, not only did we get flying as soon as it unlocked, but we got access to the allied races faster (Most players instantly), than those that complained and left due to not getting what they wanted when they wanted it back at the start of Legion.

So here is how this is going down. You can either sit back and wait, or you can leave and still have to go through the process to get what you wanted, I for one do not see that changing any time soon.
Pathfinder brings a sense of pride and accomplishment.

Did EA buy Blizzard when I wasn't looking?
It there to give enough time for all types of players to adequately explore and experience the world on the ground - as it was intended.

It's also so everyone can have plenty of time to earn the achievements. I imagine they don't want people who rush through all the content to be the first to have flying as well.

It's up for debate whether it takes too long to introduce but there is no question the world environments are more alive at the start and it's important that we at least start off the expansion with that as a priority when everyone is learning the ins and outs of the new world quests and zones.
06/18/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Pandaria
So, what is the purpose of time gating Pathfinder over the majority of the expansion?


The only correct answer to this question, is that the longer you play the more money they make.

That's it, that's the end, there is no other discussion or analysis of talking points put forth by others.
06/18/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Courtiah
06/18/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Pandaria
The biggest issue with Pathfinder is the time gating. It took 2 major patches for flying to be available during Legion, due to it being in two parts (and it's looking to be the exact same in BfA).


The alternative would be that Suramar would be as it's now, people divebomb out of the sky, get whatever objective they have, take off. Instead of the "sneak into the city and plan your way around" thing they had going there.

Now, you may not be a fan of the cloak-and-dagger games that went on in Suramar (I quite enjoyed them), but flying from day 1 would have made that all a completely pointless waste of dev time.

Expect more of this in future "current content", or suggest a better way to keep current content viable for longer. Because that is the name of the game here. No, the answer can not be "make moar content" because there are limited resources in the real world.

06/18/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Hatred
To make people angry
06/18/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Grassybay
to torture us
people like you worry me. If I thought a company treated me that way, I'd be long gone. Also, assigning human emotions to a company made up of many people.


Considering you had to finish that questline to get flying im not sure what the issue is. By the time you fet flying you have finished all the quests in Suramar. Sure it makes daily quests easier but people already had there fill of the "cloak and dagger" style gameplay by the end of the suramar campaign.

Also at the OP...How did it take you forever to grind out enough gold to purchase flying in WOTLK? Just questing from 70 to 78 gave you the gold needed to purchase cold weather flying. Sure it was still a gold grind to earn fast flying but basic flying was always cheap.
06/18/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Courtiah
06/18/2018 09:11 AMPosted by Pandaria
The biggest issue with Pathfinder is the time gating. It took 2 major patches for flying to be available during Legion, due to it being in two parts (and it's looking to be the exact same in BfA).


The alternative would be that Suramar would be as it's now, people divebomb out of the sky, get whatever objective they have, take off. Instead of the "sneak into the city and plan your way around" thing they had going there.

Now, you may not be a fan of the cloak-and-dagger games that went on in Suramar (I quite enjoyed them), but flying from day 1 would have made that all a completely pointless waste of dev time.

Expect more of this in future "current content", or suggest a better way to keep current content viable for longer. Because that is the name of the game here. No, the answer can not be "make moar content" because there are limited resources in the real world.

06/18/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Hatred
To make people angry
06/18/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Grassybay
to torture us
people like you worry me. If I thought a company treated me that way, I'd be long gone. Also, assigning human emotions to a company made up of many people.
Do you honestly think they couldn't have just disabled flying in Suramar if they wanted to?
06/18/2018 10:58 AMPosted by Metrohaha
It there to give enough time for all types of players to adequately explore and experience the world on the ground - as it was intended.

It's also so everyone can have plenty of time to earn the achievements. I imagine they don't want people who rush through all the content to be the first to have flying as well.

It's up for debate whether it takes too long to introduce but there is no question the world environments are more alive at the start and it's important that we at least start off the expansion with that as a priority when everyone is learning the ins and outs of the new world quests and zones.

Players don't need to be "given time" to do anything in this game; formerly players could do what they want and have fun their way.

You constantly white knight this topic and have even gone so far as to rewrite the history of Pathfinder by claiming it was the result of a 6 month negotiation, when in fact, it was the response by Blizzard after 19 days of hemorrhaging subs that apparently took the devs 6 months to implement.

There was nothing wrong with flying at max level; at max level you had seen most of the expansion content available. Blizzard made this a problem and it has cost them dearly and will continue to cost.

Empty servers tell the tale.
06/18/2018 11:19 AMPosted by Snug
06/18/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Courtiah
...

The alternative would be that Suramar would be as it's now, people divebomb out of the sky, get whatever objective they have, take off. Instead of the "sneak into the city and plan your way around" thing they had going there.

Now, you may not be a fan of the cloak-and-dagger games that went on in Suramar (I quite enjoyed them), but flying from day 1 would have made that all a completely pointless waste of dev time.

Expect more of this in future "current content", or suggest a better way to keep current content viable for longer. Because that is the name of the game here. No, the answer can not be "make moar content" because there are limited resources in the real world.

......people like you worry me. If I thought a company treated me that way, I'd be long gone. Also, assigning human emotions to a company made up of many people.


Considering you had to finish that questline to get flying im not sure what the issue is. By the time you fet flying you have finished all the quests in Suramar. Sure it makes daily quests easier but people already had there fill of the "cloak and dagger" style gameplay by the end of the suramar campaign.

Also at the OP...How did it take you forever to grind out enough gold to purchase flying in WOTLK? Just questing from 70 to 78 gave you the gold needed to purchase cold weather flying. Sure it was still a gold grind to earn fast flying but basic flying was always cheap.


THIS.

Also, in WOTLK you could "rent" a flying mount in Storm Peaks at level 77, even without CWF.
If you haven't been paying attention, EVERYTHING of consequence in this game is gated.

The AP Maw Farming runs slipped though last time, but now even those are gone.

Blizzard has time gated stuff from the beginning. Raids notably at first, later things through dailies, like currency in the daily heroics.

The gates do two things. One, it helps keep folks from just farming XXX 24/7. This promotes the health and sanity of the players (because, honestly, farming ANYTHING 24/7 is just bad for you). It also deters botting.

The only thing you can farm now is XP, gold, and mats (flowers, ore, etc.). Blizzard doesn't care about gold, it doesn't affect your character (which is why they support the Token system). And XP is finite. And mats are gold, indirectly.

They do care about character progression. REAL progression -- gearing up to do difficult content. And, simply, you can't farm your way to glory. At best you might be able to get a nice BOE farming trash in a raid, but even that dies down pretty quickly.

This is why you can't farm rep, you can't farm raids, you can't farm AP, etc.

Basically, Blizz doesn't really like farming as a play style. They never have. While, sure, they've had elements that are farmable (notably rep), they try to not put anything essential behind it -- not any more. They specifically don't like having players FEEL like they have to farm to keep up. As is, the games can suck up several hours a week of stuff you "have to do". The only place players can really churn hours upon hours is the end game high end progression guilds that beat their heads against the walls and wipe hundreds of times on end game content.

Other than that, there's really not more than a couple hours a day of play in this game. Once you ding, you could easily just do 2-3 hrs a day (if that), and be "ATOC" in this game.

As for Pathfinder, it's gated so that everyone gets it at once.

A primary complaint for flight from the players perspective is that "others have and I don't". Well, today there's no excuse for that anymore.

There is plenty of time from the start of the expansion to doing whatever is required to get Pathfinder. And then, when it's released, everyone "gets it at once". So, there's no reason to behind the flying curve.

Again, no reason to "grind endlessly". No reason to play "40 hours a week" or "have no life" or "quit your job".

Obviously it was not quite perfect as they came out with PF2 (which annoyed me to no end), but most of that was doable in the week following release.

So, not only do you "get to see all the content", when flying is released, you're not trapped on the ground because you don't follow the same hardcore grinding ethic of other players. They're not flying around stealing your nodes, WQs, or ganking you. Everyone has the opportunity to relevel the playing field at the same time.

(And I still advocate that there should be a PvP alternative for large chunk of PF for those players that like to PvP.)

This is why Pathfinder is time gated.

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