Dark Ascension

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I tried it out, and I can respect what you guys are trying to do.

That being said my biggest complaint about Voidform is the lack of control players have in maintaining it. It feels too fire and forget at the moment, and is more about generating Void Eruptions now, rather than actually maintaining the form.

It drains too fast, and it's very difficult to get high stacks. This shouldn't be a issue since we don't have Mass Hysteria now. I'm willing to accept some of this might be a itemization issue, but if the current item level is where we're tuning the spells from it becomes a issue down the road which could result in a need for nerfing and rebalancing later.

I'm honestly at the point where I wish our Void Spells just had Insanity Costs and Void Form was deleted with it's visual becoming default Shadowform. Tentacles then appearing at high insanity stacks as a visual que that we need to burn insanity.

It might be more useful if it was usable in Voidform as a way to prolong it, but that could also be OP as well. I think the big 5 things Shadow needs right now are:

1.) Armor on Voidform.
2.) Shadowy Apparitions Speed needs to be repaired.
3.) Shadow Word: Void, needs to receive the Mind Blast visual.
4.) Dark Tendrils should make a comeback somehow. The theme was cool.
5.) More up time on Voidform. Consider making Void Torrent a baseline spell and restoring Dispersion's ability to generate stacks of Voidform. Remember Mass Hysteria is gone now.

Thanks for reading Seph.
Sadly, and very sadly this thread has become about personal attacks.

Basically I think we can all agree that Dark Ascension is Lame, and I doubt it will see much use.
It gets worse as a whole though.
My thoughts row by row.
Row 15. even though it is nice to see Mangaza's Madness effect in BFA .
It would appear that the Azerite Armor is giving Mind Blast Buffs! LOL
making this hard to pick more likely than not Shadowy insight will be the go to.
Row 30 . your choice no dps impact!
Row 45. Looks like Misery is not going to compete with Dark Void, maybe in the future TOF might be of value but certainly not yet.
Row 60. some situational choices , with mind bomb probly dominant.
Row 75. wow what a mess, SWD not being baseline so strange, saddening really! AS dead, SWD again might be a build with TOF but certainly not now, which means Shadow crash will dominate.
Row 90. My head keeps telling me LI might be strong with the mind blast buffs but I need to play it more, Pretty sure right now most are taking MB as it is strong.

ROW 100 LOTV is just 2 strong, haven't played with STM yet but again 1 mistimed dispersion here and your dead so Some time and practice needed.
So Basically most peeps are in LOTV mode.
Kinda looking like this early in Beta and the cookie cutter is out already.
As Far as Dark Ascension goes I would rather look at the Coming Soon talent lol.
At least the qwestion mark had my interest!!!.

And Thank You once again for your Insight Annesh, you always seem to hit the mark , and make me consider things
i'm definitely with Annesh on this thread. i would love for Shadow to be just as viable for raiding of all levels but also very viable if not strong for Mythic+ - but, if i had to choose between raid viability and M+ viability, i'm taking M+ viability.

if for no other reason that M+ is content that smaller guilds and groups of friends can easily slap together with little to no notice. M+ is also content that can be done multiple times over the course of a week at a variety of difficulty levels, meaning wherever you are in your character's journey you can do some kind of key that will be challenging and offer a potential reward - once you clear your raid for the week, you're done. there is no point to doing higher or lower difficulties and if you did, there wouldn't really be a reason.

it's also kind of weird that the raid-focused SPs seem to be accusing the M+ focused SPs of only caring about themselves and "forcing what they want down others throats" - while basically being guilty of that themselves and saying that M+ and M+ design are ruining the game even, which seems really nonconstructive and overly dramatic.

and to the point that some have made, why shouldn't SP be viable for both phases of the game? why shouldn't SP be viable for ALL phases of the game? why shouldn't EVERY class? that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a niche where you are PARTICULARLY strong, and other things where you are not AS strong... but it definitely feels bad where there are specific activities in which you are objectively weak and sort of not viable.
*****This post ended up being a lot more conspiratorial and aggressively toned (and misguided in who it targets) than is right, so I'm removing it and restating the point in a more concise way. Sorry to anyone who felt attacked. Maybe I am growing an ego with all you people building me up. I'll watch it in the future. :)*****

Basically, no one should be advocating for the return of Legion's ramp-up. The reason being, that's a model where some of us can't even play in the content we want to, because the spec will continue to be bad in M+ and we just won't get the invites. On the flip side, if the spec doesn't have to ramp up and isn't quite as engaging, you do still get to play in the raids. It's just a little less "fun" for you. I see that as an imbalance of consequence and Blizz should err on the side of people who just want to play the content with their friends.
06/04/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Annesh
Switching over to BfA, raiders still have their raid invites just fine, but now M+ players are looking at a world where they might actually get invites to super-high M+ push groups. And the raiders want to take that away from us. They don't have empathy for our situation.

If we M+ enthusiasts have our way, we'll be able to do the content we want to, and the raider-onlies will be able to do the content they want (their rotation will be a little less engaging though).

If the raider-onlies have their way, their rotation will be engaging, but we M+ enthusiasts won't even be able to do the content we want to.

This is why I say they are wrong. What they want hurts us a lot more than what we want hurts them.

I'm glad Blizzard is siding with the M+ enthusiasts; I think that is correct. I really hope they don't change their mind.

Edit: This is also why the raider-onlies are trying to marginalize shadow's troubles in M+. They'll say "yo shadow is fine in m+ and it's you that sucks" or "shadow sucks in m+ cause of survivability, not aoe" or "shadow has to have weaknesses cuz all specs need weaknesses." They'll say anything to make us look unreasonable, or our complaints unfounded, or to throw the blame away from class design and onto a supposed lack of skill. It's just gaslighting at this point. Lies and slander. Efforts to save an extra few bucks themselves, even if it costs us hundreds.

I sympathize with anyone who sees a future where their own quality of life is getting worse, and takes steps to prevent that from happening. That's very human. But when your efforts are hurting others worse than you would be hurt, and you try to delude yourself and them into thinking their problems aren't as bad as they think, that's when you become wrong and unsympathetic.

Blizzard's changes to Shadow are increasing total satisfaction. M+ people will be 1000% happier, and raiders will be 200% less happy. This is fine. Deal with it.

(I say this last line in reference only to the changes reducing the ramp/neutering the impact of Voidform. Yes, there are still plenty of problems with Shadow on the beta, and it's very possible that ALL spriests will be less happy.)


I don't mean to personally attack you here, but let me explain something to you.
Shadow priest in legion for m+ is bad for a few reasons but lets not make the mistake to think it is because our damage output is not viable for m+ because our damage is more than viable for higher keys.
1st - lower keys is where we struggle because mobs die too fast. So your point about pushing higher keys actually has nothing to do with our dps. Higher keys 20+ we actually have very similar dps as other classes. Obviously we are not monks or boomkins, but lets be honest 4-5 dps specs dominate the m+ realm at the moment and the reason for this is because of...

2nd - ...Our ability to survive. Shadow priest is one of the classes that simply has a hard time staying alive in certain keys due to unavoidable mechanics.. but alas this is getting fixed in bfa because in m+ they are moving one shot mechanics to a percentage based system. The reason we don't push 24-25 keys is because we cannot survive. It has almost nothing to do with our dps. Our dps is not going to break world records but I can tell you it is definitely enough to at least chest a 24 the issue being we cannot survive heavy hitting mechanics.

Thing is now in bfa even m+ wont be as fun. We may be a bit more viable for your standard 15 key, but for higher keys we actually will be less viable as dots are much harder to maintain on multiple targets due to the void bolt nerf. When mobs are lasting 30-40 seconds and you have to redot on 3-4 separate occasions on 5-6 different mobs it's going to feel like !@#$ and also you will lose out on a ton of dps. The only thing we have going for us now is being able to kill mobs that die within a 20-30 second window. Which makes us less viable in higher end m+ and better for your standard 15+ which was already a cake walk.

At the moment when you look at every other caster spec in the game on bfa beta there is actually no reason to go shadow priest over other classes. Every single other class fills a niche better than shadow does, and on top of that shadow feels clunky as hell to play.

Ofc tuning can make any class viable but tuning aside. our toolkit is actually going to make us worse for high end m+ and takes away our niche in raiding.
I think a point that has been misconstrued in this discussion so far is that the idea that "fun shadow" necessarily equates the "ramp heavy, incredibly punishing" playstyle of Legion shadow. From what I've gathered from both the priest discord discussions, my personal experience, and the discussions had in other shadow threads on this board is that many players do not in fact enjoy the ramp heavy Legion style, be it for raiding or for M+.

That being said, the issue of "funness" with the current BFA shadow design relies around a number of factors, but largely, the impact of voidform and how it currently doesn't feel very different or very rewarding to be in voidform compared to not being it. It is entirely possible to have an impactful voidform without it being ramp heavy. Mass Hysteria, the primary offender of ramp, is gone. They could add back the +shadow damage modifier gained in voidform, which instantly makes spells cast in voidform slightly, but not oppressively, more valuable than those cast outside it (in fact, this would incentivize the use of Dark Ascension as a talent as it would allow you to cast the cool down abilities currently being used in the opening shadow rotation for extra damage inside voidform).

It is entirely possible for shadow to have engaging gameplay in raiding and be viable in M+. These are not niches, they are things that should be expected, and demanded, for every DPS spec. We should not be bargaining for one or the other.
06/04/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Annesh
The interesting thing about these "raider-onlies" is that they're only concerned that they won't be having as much "fun" with their rotation. Numbers tuning can always happen to make sure Shadow is plenty "viable" in raids. Like, you'll have your spot, you'll contribute plenty of DPS, and the Mythic level will always be very challenging by way of executing fight mechanics. The only change from Legion will be that your Shadowpriest rotation is not as punishing when you make a mistake. Your GCD won't be as fast. You'll have to manually dot more often. Your cycle will feel less different from the lowest to the highest.


I'm... not really sure where to start. I guess with the thought that most raiders don't actually like the cycle rotation. It's overly punishing, incredibly bland and repetitive, struggles with RNG mechanics such as Garothi Worldbreaker stuns, and leaves little if any space to really shine over other players of the same spec. A lot of people found the cycle fun to play initially, but we've been doing it for two raid tiers now and most are sick of it.

One of the main points I've been making throughout the BFA debate hasn't been that I, or others, want to keep the pace of the spec and therefor its inherent ramp and QoL issues. It's been that the reason shadow is fun in legion is because it is fast, if you take that away then that's absolutely fine, but you have to replace it with something.

Personally I don't see the link between making the spec faster and making it ramp more, you said it yourself in the other thread that you can frontload a little haste into voidform and it would be fine. I don't think the difference between damage in VF and damage out should be much more than it is in BFA, if at all. If you wanna add damage through haste you'd have to take it away somewhere directly (Probably bolt damage) and I'd be fine with that. But you'd probably also need to still do a lot more to the core rotation to make it interesting.

06/04/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Annesh
At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is whether or not you have your raid spot or get your invites so that you can hang out with your friends and do the fights.


I'm not so sure, maybe in the top 20 people just play what's good and only want to kill bosses. But even as high as top 100 you have players who prioritise the fact they actually enjoy the spec they're playing, let alone when you start to look at top 1000 or just CE guilds in general.

06/04/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Annesh
And the raiders want to take that away from us. They don't have empathy for our situation.

...What?!
06/04/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Themanics
Shadow priest in legion for m+ is bad for a few reasons but lets not make the mistake to think it is because our damage output is not viable for m+ because our damage is more than viable for higher keys.


Disagree. Our lack of AoE tools is absolutely a factor. Even at the highest level, the ability to burst down packs of trash is very important, and the fact that we have to manually apply dots to all mobs in a pull is a big deal. We also just generally lack AoE power - locks have Sow the Seeds spam, boomkins have Starfall layering, etc.

Over the course of a dungeon, there will be pulls where the spriest can reach par. But not always.

It does depend on the dungeon, though. The more actually big AoE pulls, the worse an spriest will do. CoS is an example where spriest is really bad - imps, primarily.

06/04/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Themanics
2nd - ...Our ability to survive.


Definitely a factor, and I've been vocal that we need better survivability. But other specs that do well are just as squishy.

Utility is another big flaw of Shadow's, and losing Mind Bomb is a hit (though gaining PWF is nice, though not enough IMO).

But ultimately, burst AoE tools are the bread and butter of whether a class will be an attractive invite, and that's the first and most significant place Shadow falls short in Legion.

06/04/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Themanics
Ofc tuning can make any class viable but tuning aside. our toolkit is actually going to make us worse for high end m+ and takes away our niche in raiding.


Oh sure, there are plenty of other problems, and I've made many posts over the months providing feedback about them. I'm just arguing specifically about burst AoE right now because A) that's the first thing people think about when making an invite decision, and B) that's exactly what some spriests on this forum want us to be deprived of.

06/04/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Kiwî
I think a point that has been misconstrued in this discussion so far is that the idea that "fun shadow" necessarily equates the "ramp heavy, incredibly punishing" playstyle of Legion shadow. From what I've gathered from both the priest discord discussions, my personal experience, and the discussions had in other shadow threads on this board is that many players do not in fact enjoy the ramp heavy Legion style, be it for raiding or for M+.


Definitely, lots of players don't like the ramp of Legion, and that makes me hopeful. I have no issue with anyone who wants Voidform to feel impactful without bringing back the ramp (which I agree is possible, though possibly unreasonably difficult to design). When I rant, I'm kind of targeting players who do specifically want that ramp back, as part of the whole package of increasing power over time. Those arguments do exist in this and other threads.

06/04/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Kiwî
They could add back the +shadow damage modifier gained in voidform, which instantly makes spells cast in voidform slightly, but not oppressively, more valuable than those cast outside it


Yeah for sure. Even better is that DV/SC/LotV allow us to reach Voidform within a few globals, so there'd be very little ramp in that model.

06/04/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Kiwî
(in fact, this would incentivize the use of Dark Ascension as a talent as it would allow you to cast the cool down abilities currently being used in the opening shadow rotation for extra damage inside voidform).


Not really, to be honest. DA causes one Voidform every so often to skip the insanity build phase, but it makes all other Voidforms much worse.

06/04/2018 08:46 AMPosted by Kiwî
It is entirely possible for shadow to have engaging gameplay in raiding and be viable in M+. These are not niches, they are things that should be expected, and demanded, for every DPS spec. We should not be bargaining for one or the other.


No, we shouldn't be. 100% agreed. Like I said in my rant, I want both to be true. But realistically, Blizz does not have unlimited development resources, so it's possible that they'll only be able to do one of the two. If that ends up being the case, I want viability in M+ more than I want engaging gameplay. I'm just letting my voice be heard.

06/04/2018 09:14 AMPosted by Hpellipsis
And the raiders want to take that away from us. They don't have empathy for our situation.

...What?!


I'm sorry, I should've been more clear - I mean "raiders who want the ramp back," not all raiders. I'll edit my post - please reread it for a better-phrased version - this goes for everyone else who already read it.
but lets not make the mistake to think it is because our damage output is not viable for m+ because our damage is more than viable for higher keys.
1st - lower keys is where we struggle because mobs die too fast. So your point about pushing higher keys actually has nothing to do with our dps. Higher keys 20+ we actually have very similar dps as other classes. Obviously we are not monks or boomkins, but lets be honest 4-5 dps specs dominate the m+ realm at the moment and the reason for this is because of...

2nd - ...The reason we don't push 24-25 keys is because we cannot survive. It has almost nothing to do with our dps. Our dps is not going to break world records but I can tell you it is definitely enough to at least chest a 24 the issue being we cannot survive heavy hitting mechanics.

for higher keys we actually will be less viable as dots are much harder to maintain on multiple targets due to the void bolt nerf.

At the moment when you look at every other caster spec in the game on bfa beta there is actually no reason to go shadow priest over other classes. Every single other class fills a niche better than shadow does, and on top of that shadow feels clunky as hell to play.

Ofc tuning can make any class viable but tuning aside. our toolkit is actually going to make us worse for high end m+ and takes away our niche in raiding.


I mean, looking at the charts it's clear our damage *style* was not enough for high level keys. It's not like it wasn't healthy only in m+. It was also unhealthy for pvp and raiding. It needed adjusting somehow. They've adjusted it. The important thing is to give feedback on how those adjustments are being received.

Of course survivability/utility plays a large component in viability, but even now the majority of feedback I've seen says it needs improvement in BfA.

As for your dot management comment, I think you may be forgetting that Mind Sear has also been returned to our kits. Between that, Shadow Crash becoming a more available option, Dark Void's inclusion, a much more powerful base Void Erupt, and our DoTs' damage no longer being so backloaded we're in a much better position to push higher keys.

Adding Dark Ascension to the toolkit (if it is indeed only going to be a one minute cd that VErupts) will enhance our burst capabilities.

Shadow needed a 28-30 second damage cycle to be viable in non-raiding content heading into BfA; not a 60+ second one. Either that or way more options to pause or prolong the high-damage cycles from Legion. I think between the two options, Blizzard made the right choice on shortening the overall cycle. They just need to tweak the execution more.
06/04/2018 04:32 AMPosted by Annesh
*****This post ended up being a lot more conspiratorial and aggressively toned (and misguided in who it targets) than is right, so I'm removing it and restating the point in a more concise way. Sorry to anyone who felt attacked. Maybe I am growing an ego with all you people building me up. I'll watch it in the future. :)*****

Basically, no one should be advocating for the return of Legion's ramp-up. The reason being, that's a model where some of us can't even play in the content we want to, because the spec will continue to be bad in M+ and we just won't get the invites. On the flip side, if the spec doesn't have to ramp up and isn't quite as engaging, you do still get to play in the raids. It's just a little less "fun" for you. I see that as an imbalance of consequence and Blizz should err on the side of people who just want to play the content with their friends.


I find comments like this spectacularly unimaginative. Ramp up was not the problem. The fact that you lose power between pulls or between mechanics was the problem. Instead of just fixing this one issue and going from there Blizzard threw the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm not saying this is the perfect solution, but being able to drop a VF and resume it would solve a *lot* of shadow's problems. Layer Dark Void on top of that and keep basically everything else from Legion and the spec would be fun and strong. Imagine finishing a boss at 30 stacks, pausing your VF, casting DV on the next pack, and resuming your previous VF from 30 stacks. You would not be complaining about lack of AoE or ramp up at all.

Saying that "it's just a little less fun" is also a huge understatement. Going from 150 APM on some fights (Ion implied shadow was doing 50APM in his April Q&A) to BFA's spaghettified state is not fun at all. Through 12 years of maining a priest I've never seen a worse incarnation of shadow than what's on beta right now. I *loved* Legion shadow, but I would rather drop the concept of VF and insanity entirely if it meant not having to play this "compromise" of a spec. WoD's CoP spec was so much better than this.
Welp theres really nothing else to say really, pre patch is next month and then legion is launched after that. You guys may be boned for the first raid tier.
We are not advocating for homogenization either. We all agree it is bad. Having a simple builder spender or combo points is more of the same. Shadow was special in that it had its own thing in legion. I found it extremely fun.That is what I want. I also want people to stop misconstruing what people are saying because they dare disagree with the dominant personalities in this thread. Tribalism has no place here. More to that point, saying that classes should have weaknesses emphatically does not mean I think shadow priests should not be able to compete in mythic plus. I’m not sure how logically you can come to that conclusion.

Front loading voidform damage is possible but also is giving bonuses for wanting to prolong voidform is also possible. Having both raid and mythic plus talents that do this is possible. People need to seriously stop thinking in binary. We all agree that blizzard needs to come up with a solution because it’s a mess. If blizzard wants to go a certain way that’s not prolonged voidform and I don’t like it then I will choose a new main. Easy. But it will be super awesome if blizzard took some development time to actually fix shadow instead of introducing talents which have no conceivable impact instead of going counterintuitive to how shadow is currently designed.
Update on Dark Ascension:

The next build's version will no longer have the requirement that you be out of Voidform to cast it. The goal with that requirement in the original design was to prevent players from wasting/incorrectly using it during Voidform to extend Voidform a bit via the Insanity it generates.

Instead, with the next iteration, you can cast Dark Ascension at any time, and it activates a new Voidform, resetting your Insanity drain and Voidform stacks.

You'll also keep any Insanity you currently had, and Generate 50 more (pending tuning) to add to that. We considered it resetting your Insanity to 0, then generating 50 afterwards, but that meant you'd probably want to wait until Voidform is completely over before using Dark Ascension, which is counter to the design of the talent being both a flexible on-demand burst AOE and a way to enter/start a new Voidform whenever you choose.
Thanks for the update!
Interesting change. What's the cooldown for it? 1 minute seems like it would be too good and outclass LotV. 1.5mins might be a good spot. This is a gut feeling but it may be too powerful to carry over previous Insanity levels. Maybe the VF stack loss outweighs it. We'll see.

I do like being able to have a controlled VErupt quite a bit. It's a shame that's not how the ability works baseline. Thanks for the change.

EDIT: We'll need to see if there's weird interactions with LI--getting max VF stacks, using DA and then afk'ing. Will we have two instances of LI? Will one supersede another? Will they combine?
06/04/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Seph
Instead, with the next iteration, you can cast Dark Ascension at any time, and it activates a new Voidform, resetting your Insanity drain and Voidform stacks.


This is certainly an improvement overall, and does solve many people's issue of a lack of void eruption in current iteration. It's certainly an unusual spell overall, but definitely something that can now compete with Legacy of the Void.

My question though is about the "reset" of voidform. This is unusual, but personally seems necessary to make this spell really work. How will it interact with the current Lingering Insanity talent we have in BFA?
06/04/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Seph
Update on Dark Ascension:

The next build's version will no longer have the requirement that you be out of Voidform to cast it. The goal with that requirement in the original design was to prevent players from wasting/incorrectly using it during Voidform to extend Voidform a bit via the Insanity it generates.

Instead, with the next iteration, you can cast Dark Ascension at any time, and it activates a new Voidform, resetting your Insanity drain and Voidform stacks.

You'll also keep any Insanity you currently had, and Generate 50 more (pending tuning) to add to that. We considered it resetting your Insanity to 0, then generating 50 afterwards, but that meant you'd probably want to wait until Voidform is completely over before using Dark Ascension, which is counter to the design of the talent being both a flexible on-demand burst AOE and a way to enter/start a new Voidform whenever you choose.


Do you actually see that as the use case for this? Why would I use this like you suggest when I can VE and then immediately DA for double VE damage?

It starts a fresh VF if I'm already in one? So I'm basically voluntarily giving up my VF progress or aligning it to the last VF. What exactly is my incentive to stay in VF as long as I can? Why should I feel good about getting 25 stacks vs 30 stacks? Seriously this iteration of shadow is a cluster!@#$ and layering DA onto our existing mishmash of AoEs is not the solution.
06/04/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Iryvelle
06/04/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Seph
Update on Dark Ascension:

The next build's version will no longer have the requirement that you be out of Voidform to cast it. The goal with that requirement in the original design was to prevent players from wasting/incorrectly using it during Voidform to extend Voidform a bit via the Insanity it generates.

Instead, with the next iteration, you can cast Dark Ascension at any time, and it activates a new Voidform, resetting your Insanity drain and Voidform stacks.

You'll also keep any Insanity you currently had, and Generate 50 more (pending tuning) to add to that. We considered it resetting your Insanity to 0, then generating 50 afterwards, but that meant you'd probably want to wait until Voidform is completely over before using Dark Ascension, which is counter to the design of the talent being both a flexible on-demand burst AOE and a way to enter/start a new Voidform whenever you choose.


Do you actually see that as the use case for this? Why would I use this like you suggest when I can VE and then immediately DA for double VE damage?

It starts a fresh VF if I'm already in one? So I'm basically voluntarily giving up my VF progress or aligning it to the last VF. What exactly is my incentive to stay in VF as long as I can? Why should I feel good about getting 25 stacks vs 30 stacks? Seriously this iteration of shadow is a cluster!@#$ and layering DA onto our existing mishmash of AoEs is not the solution.


When you say !@#$ like that, do you honestly expect developers would want to communicate with you?

If you don't value the extra haste, mash the two together. If you do, spread them out. It gives you some choice. You may want to do one style for one encounter and another style on a different one. Your feedback isn't constructive.
06/04/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Seph
Update on Dark Ascension:

The next build's version will no longer have the requirement that you be out of Voidform to cast it. The goal with that requirement in the original design was to prevent players from wasting/incorrectly using it during Voidform to extend Voidform a bit via the Insanity it generates.

Instead, with the next iteration, you can cast Dark Ascension at any time, and it activates a new Voidform, resetting your Insanity drain and Voidform stacks.

You'll also keep any Insanity you currently had, and Generate 50 more (pending tuning) to add to that. We considered it resetting your Insanity to 0, then generating 50 afterwards, but that meant you'd probably want to wait until Voidform is completely over before using Dark Ascension, which is counter to the design of the talent being both a flexible on-demand burst AOE and a way to enter/start a new Voidform whenever you choose.


seph it doesn't matter, its still a lazily designed talent that isn't very interesting

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