If You're Unhappy, Consider Unsubbing

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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tl;dr There hasn't been enough progress to keep me interested and it doesn't look like there's going to be. New design decisions don't look like it's making the game more fun baseline. I've unsubbed.

I like WoW. It's a good timesink, but I've unsubbed. There's more to it than QQ'ing over not receiving significant changes until 8.1. The Q&A just made the decision easier.

I can't speak for everyone or everything, but here are some of my motivations:
    I dislike a lot of the WoW model of timegating a lot of stuff for arbitrary reasons. Most of the stuff I want is just up to RNGesus. There's no reward for significant or prolonged effort.

    There are other games I can be playing over WoW. The architecture of the game has been old for a while and now they want to make classes go at a crawl with all the pruning they've done. I could've forgiven a lot of that if class gameplay was fun but it's not. Issues that have been identified for months have been routinely ignored with little to no feedback from developers into players' concerns. Being told to pound sand until the next big patch (and therefore feel like !@#$ for the entire beginning of an expansion and raid cycle) is not just demoralizing, it's infuriating. I already played this spec's rotation for an expansion. I don't need or want the Diet version for another expansion.

    Their changes to Mythic+, loot, and classes don't inspire my support. It's just more arbitrary timegating and RNGesus at play. I didn't really care about M+ in Legion because my spec was %^-* for it, but the gear change moving into BfA is silly. Of course we can't change gear during a raid fight, but how does that have any bearing on a dungeon? Why are we allowed to change gear at all in a raid if we can't do it in a fight? It's just bad precedence, doesn't offer any new or interesting gameplay options, and just serves to make dungeons either aoe lulfests or slow defensive slugfests. This change could make sense to me if they were removing repairs in dungeons too to make deaths/wipes have more of a consequence, but then at that point they could just put a group or player lives limit on the instance.

    Give players more options. For M+ let us choose between some affix options on our keystones that better suits our group composition. Make them standard for MDI or something, but give us agency

    Fixing the TF problem by giving players alternative ways to upgrade their gear. The pantheon trinkets were great. It would be even greater if we had other upgrade items. Even if it's linked to ilvl scaling with difficulty level it would definitely alleviate a lot of players' frustrations.

    Warmode talents. It doesn't make sense to me at all these are available for World Questing but not dungeons and raids when they play such a huge factor in smoothing out the process of leveling/questing. It feels like part of the power budget from my class was pulled out to make room for these, not that these enhance my base spec.

    Flight and reputation gains being put on the timegate again...being unable to fly in older zones without following old, boring pathfinder paradigms and rep grinding. If you want pathfinder to feel special, just make the pathfinder rewards special. I wouldn't care if newbies can fly in the Broken Isles once BfA drops.

    Stale combat system, no implementation of mounted combat (even when it's been possible and executed for certain quests,) etc. and no signs of improvement, just maintenance.

    Player characters feeling inconsequential especially in events and lore. (The time I watched Alleria struggle to use Void powers while I literally stood next to her in Void Form...)

    Sluggish AH/bags. Being unable to sort things by item level.

    Older zones not being updated/modernized in new expansions. Cities like Thunderbluff not getting portals to newer areas.

    Super repetitive quests. Kill x. Gather y.

    Super awkward summoning system that bugs out often. It being limited to one class due to "class fantasy" suddenly being more important than gameplay

    Streamlining things for a playerbase that doesn't use those features/being out of touch with the community.

    Lack of communication. I know the QnA today was feedback, and I am grateful for that, but this has been a joke on the alpha and beta. So many communities were dying to do the devs' work for them but there was just radio silence. Why continue to contribute to the system when other developers are more receptive to feedback?


A lot of this stuff would be forgivable or able to be overlooked for me if the base gameplay was fun or they were making steps towards that direction. But it isn't and I don't see it becoming so. I know many people have dedicated a lot of time to characters, friends, and guilds, and I understand those motivations. But please don't feel like you have to stick with the game due to what you've already invested otherwise you'll never be able to quit. It's the sunk cost fallacy.
Yeah, for the first time ever I really am. For the most part game design has moved forward. bfa feels like a huge step back.
Well written and thought out. This isn't a one off occurrence, as stated above, we've have similar issues dating back for some time.

Currently, we have specs which aren't functional, where design should have been considered and planned throughout Legion instead of band-aid fixes so late in Beta.

This is basic design knowledge that !@#$ needs to be sorted well before any such release!

Imagine if God of War released with the substandard garbage we have in Ench and Shadow! It'd only be picked up by for hard fans, with gameplay that is inexcusable.

With this BS, I do hope BFA tanks harder than WoD.

%^-*ing disgusting!!!
shaman priest and mage are on blizzards ignore list for now

but i mean youre right even if enhance played like it does in legion(which is worse than wod which was worse than mop etc) the content is getting more and more dull. I leveled a warrior to 120 on beta. It felt like a chore but when i got there, i looked at the next steps and was like, nah. Havent really touched him since, barring a few dungeon runs
With the way everything goes, unsubbing and possibly coming back in the last patch of the expansion to do time sensitive content is probably the way to go. I'm pretty sure doing it after 8.1 or whatever's just gonna end up with another artifact grind feeling, where you were way behind and it wasn't very fun at all trying to get caught up with everything.

That said, the vast majority of people that are still left aren't actually capable of dropping the game and walking away for very long :^)
I feel bad using gold for my sub because it feels like I am wasting other people's money.
I wouldn't pay real money for this.

I doubt I will play more than 2 months of the expansion with the way things are going.
I wont make it to 8.1 and i bet it falls way short of expectations.
(probably be like the selfie cam patch...)

wod=>legion: classes didn't need a huge overhaul. got butchered/pruned
.
legion=>bfa: classes needed overhaul and most wont get one.
just butchered/pruned further

literally the most important part of the game is not taken seriously.
and beta feedback ignored, again.

release unfinished game, rng and timegate the crap out of it to give the illusion of fun = welcome to wod 3.0
06/15/2018 01:24 AMPosted by Srath
I feel bad using gold for my sub because it feels like I am wasting other people's money.
yeah, and its dumb too cause the token cost $20 instead of standard 14.99

i miss wod ret.
What a ridiculous list of complaints.
  • "Watching Alleria struggle with void powers while you're standing there in void form" ruins the game for you? For one, she's not a Priest.
  • "No implementation of mounted combat"? Why exactly does the game need it? Realize there's an inherent issue with simply increasing the rate at which players do things. Is not being able to loot while mounted going to be your next reason for unsubbing?
  • "Old capital cities not getting portals to new zones". Do they need to? How relevant are those old cities when you're in new expansion content, and how hard really is navigating the game world at this point in the first place?

Really, for whatever problems the game has, and every game has problems, these aren't it.
Yeah, shame so many casuals get beta invites, they never critique the important stuff. if only they actually tested classes, specs, raids, dungeons, but nah, they want to criticize the story.
06/15/2018 03:16 AMPosted by Ascetic
Yeah, shame so many casuals get beta invites, they never critique the important stuff. if only they actually tested classes, specs, raids, dungeons, but nah, they want to criticize the story.


Wow is a game many people enjoy in different ways, letting them critique what they want is in no way an issue.
06/15/2018 01:07 AMPosted by Tyranova
With the way everything goes, unsubbing and possibly coming back in the last patch of the expansion to do time sensitive content is probably the way to go. I'm pretty sure doing it after 8.1 or whatever's just gonna end up with another artifact grind feeling, where you were way behind and it wasn't very fun at all trying to get caught up with everything.

That said, the vast majority of people that are still left aren't actually capable of dropping the game and walking away for very long :^)


I did this for legion and I actually felt really happy about that decision. The start of the xpac was awful in so many ways. Came back at 7.3.5 and a lot of the big problems the xpac had were fixed. Sure, not everything is perfect, but the gameplay is really fun in Legion when you don't have to worry about the systems surrounding it screwing you over.
06/15/2018 03:23 AMPosted by Fcdewqfvc
Wow is a game many people enjoy in different ways, letting them critique what they want is in no way an issue.
The story and !@#$ like that isnt changing, that was written out years prior, theres no point in wasting time to critique stuff that doesnt impact gameplay.

they can critique whatever they want, but its not helpful beta feedback.
Yeah on the Alleria Voidform thing: I honestly can't really be too mad about it. As a Shadowpriest it's kind of annoying to see that, and it definitely makes me feel like the developers just plain forgot my spec exists. Not a good feeling.

But at the same time, what could've been done to properly "acknowledge" the Shadow spec in that situation? Like, what are we expecting here? One line conditionally appended to the quest text?

"Alleria is the first person to have mastered the Void! ++Y'know, aside from those gosh darn spriests++."


We probably would have still turned that into a meme. We can still consider it insulting to be addressed in one little sentence that doesn't change the actual content. And anything more would've been pretty unreasonable, considering all the effort would've been for the sake of one spec out of 36 or whatever.

TLDR: I was annoyed by it too, but my annoyance was more, like, amused. "Oh, Blizzard, siiigh." I don't actually care much.

+infinity for the rest of the OP though.
06/15/2018 03:16 AMPosted by Ascetic
Yeah, shame so many casuals get beta invites, they never critique the important stuff. if only they actually tested classes, specs, raids, dungeons, but nah, they want to criticize the story.


I'm casual and wrote many critiques of class mechanics, bugs, etc. And, after all that feedback was written, it was totally ignored by Blizz until they actually started looking at a few specs a couple of weeks ago. Now, we have this "wait until 8.1" crap, with only a few specs listed, even then. Maybe after 8.1, they'll look at a few more specs for 8.2. After 8.2 it'll be, "too late to make major changes now" so hope they make them better in 9.0 . . .
I think Sunk Cost fallacy applies more to WoW than gambler's fallacy.

Its a combination of "Death by 1000 cuts" and the core gameplay improvement.

For example, take Resto Druids. Its impossible to raid as a resto druid effectively without custom raid frames. Blizzard default raid frames limits the displayed HoTs to 3. Sometimes you cannot tell if you have a lifebloom on the tank, or if regrowth is still ticking. Its such a basic problem.

Then theres classes you cannot play without special WA. Try a demo lock without a WA to track your demons out and # empowered. Or a Brewmaster with the default info where you cannot tell your ISB length and can't make an informed decision if its safe to use a purifying brew. Or an ele shaman with their myriad of procs.

Lock summoning portals still bug out, and while I don't agree with you on expanding this utility to other classes, its still sad.

Personally I hate systems like the pantheon trinket and HFC ring. Most healers had no options for trinkets in Antorus because of it. It was Velens and Eonars.

As far as flying, I don't think Flying has been a positive addition to the game. All its done is provide convenience and shrink the world drastically. In general I don't find the dozens of convenience changes healthy for the game. I feel its shrunk the game tremendously and lost the world effect.

As far as choosing affixes for M+ keystones, I don't think that's a good idea. It will devolve into finding the easiest combo and only rolling for that. I think the different experience every week is fine.

The direction of WoW is worrisome as well. There's this push to make everything competitive everywhere. While this in itself isn't a problem, its how they do it. They are homogenizing toolboxes and damage profiles to make it easier to balance, and it takes a lot of the flavor out of the game. For example, why does spriest have 3 talents that add new AoE buttons? Yay now they can burst.. but since when was strong burst DPS a part of what defined spriest? Spriest was traditionally a steady damage DoT spec with a small execute that could excel on council fights. Now I don't know what it is. Its an amalgamation of versions of spriest that does not cohesively function.

And while they removed SW:D baseline, 8 of 11 classes in BfA now have access to an execute of some form..

It feels like fun and enjoyment of a spec is taking a back seat to competitive balancing.
I will preface my post to say that while I am extremely unhappy BfA is going to launch with several specs still in major need of tuning (just like Legion did), it’s not a deal breaker for me. It might be a class breaker though where I find another main. That being said, if it is a deal breaker for any given player, then cancellation of your subscription will speak more loudly than any forum post.
I'd love to un-subscribe, unfortunately through gold I'm paid up for the next 2 years. I'm extremely unhappy with the state of all 3 mage specs. The nebulous, "we might make changes to some specs by 8.1", is not encouraging. If they actually wanted meaningful communication, they'd at least say what specs/classes they feel need the "8.1 treatment". Furthermore, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect a "finished" product (when is an MMO system ever truly finished).
I agree with OP's post. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then it's time you move on. And if you pre-ordered and are unhappy about it, then maybe consider no longer pre-ordering video games until the developers deliver a polished final product.

06/15/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Rockford
With this BS, I do hope BFA tanks harder than WoD.

%^-*ing disgusting!!!

You get em tiger! Let the forums feel your rage!!! I'm sure Blizz will be very concerned xD
Lets face it folks. If the OP was really leaving, they wouldn't have made a thread about it, they would have just left. Lets all make attention grabbing posts talking about how we are mad and unsubbing so we can get like minded individuals to agree with us and make us feel validated.

TL:DR - See you at launch.
I mean, yea. If you don't like the direction the game is going, by all means unsub. Player retention is a metric they pay attention to. If it goes down severely, it'll be a strong indicator that changes need to be made.

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