Black Arrow

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
06/19/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Archimtiros
But it's one thing to be critical of actual choices and decision making and another to just look for excuses to piss and moan over, like most of the circle jerking that goes on between a lot of the people here who don't otherwise know their !@# from their elbow.


Agreed and well said, but we are just a small number of people in a big circle of crybabies.
06/19/2018 12:34 AMPosted by Surval
<span class="truncated">...</span>It doesn't matter if you had both abilities or not, you still got something to replace the thing which was removed.

Pruning doesn't simply mean something was changed; that happens all the time. It means something was removed without compensation, i.e. leaving you with less spells/abilities/talents than before.


I think you’re still confused friend or just misinformed. There indeed was a pruning. In mop you could have black arrow and serpent sting on your bars at the same time. Now you can only have serpent sting and not even the choice of black arrow. That is Indeed called being pruned because you now have less abilities
What was Black Arrow honestly adding that Serpent Sting can't provide to Marksmanship? Black Arrow was honestly a rear pull of an ability thrown to Survival that was at the time a catch all spec of skills they liked but didn't fit the other two specs. Black Arrow didn't fit with Marks in the way it was functioning with Survival but also a necromancy talent does not a spec intended to be a military sniper.

In this case, it's not so much pruning as it is replacing stuff that really doesn't fit or ever used in favor of giving something else that could be used. Serpent Sting was brought back for Marks as a talent for those who like the dot management and at least animal weapon makes a lot more sense than a Dwarven rifleman suddenly knowing necromantic magic.

There's plenty of things to have a gripe over. Taking necromancy away from a rifleman doesn't seem like it fits the criteria, especially when it was replaced.
06/19/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Clobberntime
It honestly just didn't fit. Black Arrow was neat with the old Survival but it was honestly a recycle bin ability thrown onto the recycle bin spec (Survival.) Face it, as fun as Survival was, a lot of its kit was all over the place and never had a central theme.


Post-Legion Blizzard zealot propaganda. Survival was the utilitarian spec that augmented its shots. Its entire toolkit fit that theme.

Black Arrow was added because it was a unique ability from Warcraft III and was a cool addition to the class. It fit Survival best because Survival was the DoT spec and it also needed an avenue to proc Lock and Load from ranged. That is sensible decision making and was healthy for the class. Black Arrow being removed is just one more step in the post-Legion revisionism to erase all traces of ranged Survival.

Even if it existed in Marksmanship as a platitude for all the ranged SV Hunters they screwed over... at least it existed and was actually pretty useful outside of raw single target. They did, after all, pledge to represent the ranged SV playstyle through MM. Black Arrow's removal proved that to be a lie but we kind of already knew that (see: Explosive Shot).
I am honestly starting to believe the are doing something bigger now with a dot based hunter spec. They said they'd give us SV playstyle in MM, but didn't, now they are removing the last vestige of it in Black Arrow. I am thinking they might be doing something akin to "allied specs" next expansion and a dot based hunter spec will be something that is happening.
06/19/2018 12:26 PMPosted by Airese
06/19/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Archimtiros
But it's one thing to be critical of actual choices and decision making and another to just look for excuses to piss and moan over, like most of the circle jerking that goes on between a lot of the people here who don't otherwise know their !@# from their elbow.


Agreed and well said, but we are just a small number of people in a big circle of crybabies.


You both come off like GD posters and yes you both clearly are Blizz apologists. Which is ironic given that you just called people here crybabies when that’s pretty much all GD is.

There is plenty of valid feedback here in this forum, a lot of which has been stated for multiple alphas/betas. Change isn’t inherently bad, but both Legion and BfA are full of garbage changes.

Airese, all those abilities that were rarely used by you were used by other people. If you don’t like those buttons than take them off your action bars, there was no need for 3 expansions worth of pruning. Classes feel empty because they’ve been butchered to pretty much just their raid rotations, it’s depressing. why should everyone else have to suffer boring classes because you don’t want to utilize your classes full toolkit? Every ability had some use, even if others didn’t realize it.
06/20/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Vyadanas
I am honestly starting to believe the are doing something bigger now with a dot based hunter spec. They said they'd give us SV playstyle in MM, but didn't, now they are removing the last vestige of it in Black Arrow. I am thinking they might be doing something akin to "allied specs" next expansion and a dot based hunter spec will be something that is happening.


i would be on board with a dark ranger spec that inherits old survival and builds on it for sure.

would be a great way to bring back our fully mobile magic damage/dot archer spec
06/19/2018 01:11 AMPosted by Archimtiros
06/19/2018 12:34 AMPosted by Surval
I think you’re still confused friend or just misinformed. There indeed was a pruning. In mop you could have black arrow and serpent sting on your bars at the same time. Now you can only have serpent sting and not even the choice of black arrow. That is Indeed called being pruned because you now have less abilities
I'm not misinformed or confused, your use of terminology is flawed on the basis of throwing around "prune" like it's a dirty word.

It's pretty easy to figure out, simply count total number of activatable offensive abilities; you'll find that Marks has the same total number of offensive abilities in BfA as it did in Legion.

Legion has 4 base and up to 4 activated talents (ignoring defensive/utility):
  • Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Marked Shot, and Multi-shot; Black Arrow, Explosive Shot/Sentinel, Barrage/Volley/Crows, and Piercing Shot.

BfA you has 4 base and up to 5 activated talents (ignoring defensive/utility):
  • Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Steady Shot, and Multi-shot; Serpent Sting/Crows, Explosive Shot, Hunters Mark, Barrage, and Piercing Shot.

Add one extra to Legion for the artifact ability, and you get a grand total of 9 v 9. If you want to include base offensive cooldowns, the total is instead 10 v 11 in favor of BfA adding Rapid Fire.

Whether you could, once upon a time, use any two particular spells together is besides the point, abilities shuffle around while their names and effects change all the time. Fact of the matter remains that Marks doesn't have any less talents or less abilities.


Yep. Marks is a thousand times better from Legion to BfA but you'd never know it from the feedback. Everyone keeps going back to WoD and jumping on the "OMG pruning" bandwagon when the fact is having more keys in and of itself means nothing in the face of a focused play style that fits the class.

There are a few classes that should be concerned right now. But Hunter at large came out very well IMO.
06/20/2018 02:15 PMPosted by Zígzag
There are a few classes that should be concerned right now. But Hunter at large came out very well IMO.
Eh, personally I think Marks is pretty bland right now, but that has nothing to do with the fact that saying there's been "pruning" when compared to a potential combination of abilities 4+ years ago in MoP is just plain inaccurate.

Nonsensical feedback is meaningless, and not going to effect change. If you want to do so, it needs to be relevant to the current situation - e.g. the OP could have said "the ability to use Black Arrow and Serpent Sting together in MoP was better because of X, Y, Z; instead we've only had either one or the other since that time".
06/20/2018 09:20 AMPosted by Vyadanas
I am honestly starting to believe the are doing something bigger now with a dot based hunter spec. They said they'd give us SV playstyle in MM, but didn't, now they are removing the last vestige of it in Black Arrow. I am thinking they might be doing something akin to "allied specs" next expansion and a dot based hunter spec will be something that is happening.


They've had more than enough time to salvage the remnants of ranged SV. They gutted it in 6.2, which is 3 years ago on Friday. Since then, they haven't made even a semblance of an effort to maintain *any* part of it. Black Arrow was completely gutted when it moved to MM and anyone who considers it even remotely compensatory for what was lost is in denial.

I, too, hope for a third ranged spec to come back to Hunter (and don't care what happens to melee SV), but I wouldn't bet a nickel on it.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum