PvP talent tuning

War Mode and World PvP
We have seen very little of this so far. It’s kind of concerning that the system of choosing pvp talents was changed so much, yet the talents themselves seemed to have stayed pretty static.

I am largely speaking on behalf of mm hunter because that’s what I main, but I know the case is the same for most of the specs. The specs that saw the most rotational changes are obviously impacted more. For example, rangers finesse and trueshot mastery are now largely worthless talents due to aimed shot being used less than when the talent was originally put in, and trueshot is a less impactful cooldown now.

Other specs like bm are affected less because their core toolkit has changed less. FoF stun removal is really the only huge mechanical change that I think we’ve seen so far.
MM need some defensive additions to their Honor talents that are less niche. Like actual good talents. Hunters in general have wonky !@# PVP talents in my honest opinion.

Ele shaman's Earthfury still requires 100 maelstrom to stun, as well. There are actually a lot of small issues coupled with a LARGE issue of 80% of pvp talents being useless a majority of the time.

Also, while we're on the subject. I wish they'd give Aimed Shot the healing Debuff back that it once had, so lone wolf didn't lose that utility. That's where Hunter's had it originally, an OG MS effect, and it could be put back. They compensated for Sub, they should for MM as well.
Some classes definitely benefit more from the current system. Being able to choose multiple talents that were on the same row in legion is going to make balance very interesting in season 1.
06/21/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Shyja
Hunters in general have wonky !@# PVP talents in my honest opinion.


You know I was thinking about this. On live right now, none of MM's honor talents are super great, per se, but the combination of each of them being a little bit useful for specific situations kind of completes the package enough. I guess the main benefit of the last row of MM talents being really bad now is that you get to at least pick one of each from rows 3/4/5 still.

It also doesn't make sense that scatter still replaces bursting shot AND is still on incap dr. Bursting shot doesn't cause loss of control any more, so the abilities are no longer fundamentally modifications of each other. MM has also lost access to wyvern, and binding shot is now a root. Combine that with aforementioned bursting shot loss of control prune, all MM is left with is trap with no setup. That means that it is going to have to be a damage bot + will be super comp limited.

On the other hand, specs like destro feel like they're benefiting quite a bit from the added flexibility that the new system gives. I.e., you can take casting circle + nether ward or cremation + focused chaos and entrenched in flame for a stronger overall offensive or defensive kit than you have access to now in legion where you'd have to choose between some of those.
Ret should also get Blessed Hand, aka getting a second charge on baseline Blessings.
And maybee Steed of Glory?

Also Holy Ritual is underwhelming to say the least, actually its pointless in this pool! Would be nice if it gets changed to something like:
U heal for x% of dmg taken while Blessings are active. Would give BoP some use vs Mage Comps.

Also Cleansing Light and Pure Heart are either useless, or too good, and hardcounter certain Specs. Hardcounter talents shouldnt exists imo.

so long
06/21/2018 06:46 PMPosted by Bertimus
We have seen very little of this so far.

speak for yourself, they teared a new one through the spriest honour talents.
Most monk talents feel very unimpactful. We have to burn an honor talent just to get an actual single target heal that's mana effective... and even with the two leftovers, it feels like the options are very bland. 30 seconds off cocoon? Way of the crane which costs us 25% of our mana and has been nerfed severely? dispel protection which still doesn't protect our healing enough? 5 seconds off of the cd of transcendence, when transcendence went from a 25 sec cd to a 45 second cd...

It just feels like everything is super lackluster for mistweaver.

Then there's H priest... who is forced between taking utility, and basically life saving cooldowns that should probably be baseline to the spec in PvP... I just don't really get why they went this route. Feels like there will be less customization, even though they were trying to create more with this move supposedly.
06/22/2018 04:59 PMPosted by Fox
Most monk talents feel very unimpactful. We have to burn an honor talent just to get an actual single target heal that's mana effective... and even with the two leftovers, it feels like the options are very bland. 30 seconds off cocoon? Way of the crane which costs us 25% of our mana and has been nerfed severely? dispel protection which still doesn't protect our healing enough? 5 seconds off of the cd of transcendence, when transcendence went from a 25 sec cd to a 45 second cd...

It just feels like everything is super lackluster for mistweaver.

Then there's H priest... who is forced between taking utility, and basically life saving cooldowns that should probably be baseline to the spec in PvP... I just don't really get why they went this route. Feels like there will be less customization, even though they were trying to create more with this move supposedly.


Having 4 choices would at least put us closer to where we were in Legion. Three feels like a huge downgrade on Holy Priest for sure.
I like the bucket system idea but seriously only 3 talents is just not enough excluding trinket. Every class has 1-2 talents they have to take to be viable which leaves 1 talent choice to rotate. This isn't a fun feeling. There needs to be 4 talents to choose from + Trinket.

Again the bucket Idea is great but we really need 1 more then also most PvP talents haven't been tuned as stated around the new PvE changes.
Everything seems balanced right now honestly.
DH,WW is garbage. Arms warrior , Unholy Dk,Ret, Bm Hunter,Rogue,Lock are good. Its that simple. pick your spec. Survival is also decent.
I dont much about mage,druid,prieest,shaman
It'll be interesting to see if resto druid even functions in BGs anymore (has anyone tested it yet?). You need some semblance of burst healing in BGs because adding 2 or 3 HoTs to a player isn't going to save them from someone else's burst DPS. Abundance/Nourish afforded us both burst healing and the opportunity, with proper setup, to have shorter cast times (even instant), and hopefully bypass a few interrupts. Now that Healing Touch was removed and Nourish no longer reduces cast time, we're always going to be stuck hard casting Regrowth, making us vulnerable to interrupts without recourse: we have no PvP talent that reduces interrupt duration or provides interrupt immunity.

It's possible that resto druids will be fine, but we weren't even top tier at the end of Legion and the nerfs to Abundance/Nourish are significant enough, I think, to merit some concern.
For Affliction Warlocks, I think more than anything the Endless Affliction talent should be looked at. In its current state, it was not desirable in Legion and it likely won’t be in BfA either because there is not much benefit to taking that talent and having it is a punishment in that UA becomes less effective in terms of damage.

The only reason I can think of to take the talent is to prolong UA expiring for Deathbolt, however it is hard to say if taking that talent is worth lowering the damage of UA ticks. Same damage overall, but it takes longer to do that damage.

Personally I’d like to see a more beneficial talent in that slot that makes UA feel better to use in PVP.
06/21/2018 07:04 PMPosted by Arkaad
Some classes definitely benefit more from the current system. Being able to choose multiple talents that were on the same row in legion is going to make balance very interesting in season 1.
true
06/23/2018 02:52 AMPosted by Nuclearman
Everything seems balanced right now honestly.
oh really does it now....
06/23/2018 02:52 AMPosted by Nuclearman
Everything seems balanced right now honestly.
LOL
I thought they were removing the "No Finger's of Frost generated" from Deep Shatter, but then I logged on the beta and it hasn't changed. If they removed that downside, Frost Mages could have a pretty decent Frostbolt damage build.
06/23/2018 02:52 AMPosted by Nuclearman
Everything seems balanced right now honestly.
this is still so funny XD

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