Unofficial BfA Theorycrafting Thread

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
The last two expasions, Celestalon started a Theorycrafting thread for those who like to deep dive into how the game works in the past. Since Celest moved over to the Hearthstone dev team, it was unclear if the practice would continue into the future. Since pre-patch is going to release soon, I am guessing the devs are starting to do final numbers checks. With that said, I am hoping the devs can continue to provide background values. Keep in mind, this thread is for deep dive questions, and not say rotational questions.

For an idea of the questions being asked, here are some of my questions for the devs:

  • Is it possible to provide the warrior npc armor values? It appears that at level values result in a 30% armor reduction.
  • The armor values for level 120+ seem weird. The K value is the same for level 120-123 mobs resulting in the same value for all four levels. However while leveling, I found a +2 level mob in Stormsong. While testing at level 119, the armor reduction on the level 121 mob appeared to have a 34% armor reduction. But upon testing at 120, the level 122 mob had a 30% armor reduction. I understand that later raid bosses will have a higher K value, but how is the armor value being calculated at max level.
  • Are base stats now in conformaty to one another from level 1-120? The values from 110 to 120 appear to be the same for all classes.
  • It was mentioned that Brewmaster monks Stagger is based on the players Agility. What is that calculation?


I am hopeful the devs can keep this thread going till release.
06/26/2018 08:14 AMPosted by Delritha
  • It was mentioned that Brewmaster monks Stagger is based on the players Agility. What is that calculation?


  • Reiterating because it's 1) a great move, 2) totally nebulous.
    We'd like to request implementation details for the new level 100 talent, Time Anomaly, for modelling purposes in SimulationCraft. We're looking for details on the following:

    • Proc roll mechanism
    • Proc chance fluctuation and how it rolls up (or not) over time
    • When it is allowed to proc
    • When it is NOT allowed to proc

    Observations (unconfirmed) from players include: Cannot proc 4 Arcane Charges at 3+ Arcane Charges, cannot proc Evocation while casting Evocation.

    Thanks in advance.
    A quick question on Justicar's Vengance. When effected by the 20% bonus damage/healing from Divine Purpose is it supposed to just effect the damage side of the spell, or is the heal portion supposed to be effected as well?

    One more thing is Divine Purpose's damage modifier additive or multiplicative when combined with the judgement debuff and execution sentence?
    I was also wondering if there were any changes to the Expected Max Health calculation/constants. And, flowing from that, the formula which is used to proc Gift of the Ox spheres.

    Obviously I can't verify anything exactly, but I feel like I may be getting less spheres than in the live game.
    06/27/2018 07:34 AMPosted by Swolb
    I was also wondering if there were any changes to the Expected Max Health calculation/constants. And, flowing from that, the formula which is used to proc Gift of the Ox spheres.

    Obviously I can't verify anything exactly, but I feel like I may be getting less spheres than in the live game.


    I was under the impression it still functioned like this

    When you are hit, it increments a counter by (DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger / MaxHealth). It now drops an orb whenever that reaches 1.0, and decrements it by 1.0. The tooltip still says ‘chance’, to keep it understandable.

    On the raiders training dummy it seems to be working correctly
    Does it use actual Max Health? Or "Expected Max Health". Back in Legion beta blizz told us that they use the "expected max health" calculation for mechanics like this and rage/fury generation from getting hit for the other tanks.

    Where did you get that quote you posted? Was that a blizzard post that I missed from some patch?

    The formula I had been using was one they gave us back in the old theorycrafting thread going into Legion:

    Chance = (0.75 * DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger / ExpectedMaxHealth) * (3 - 2 * CurrentHealth%)


    This formula makes it much more likely to spawn orbs when you are low health, which is certainly the behavior that I noticed in Legion.
    06/28/2018 06:50 AMPosted by Swolb
    Does it use actual Max Health? Or "Expected Max Health". Back in Legion beta blizz told us that they use the "expected max health" calculation for mechanics like this and rage/fury generation from getting hit for the other tanks.

    Where did you get that quote you posted? Was that a blizzard post that I missed from some patch?

    The formula I had been using was one they gave us back in the old theorycrafting thread going into Legion:

    Chance = (0.75 * DamageTakenBeforeAbsorbsOrStagger / ExpectedMaxHealth) * (3 - 2 * CurrentHealth%)


    This formula makes it much more likely to spawn orbs when you are low health, which is certainly the behavior that I noticed in Legion.


    It was a comment from the old TC thread for 7.0 but that entire forum has been archived now (or deleted)
    Another calculation I'd love insight on is for the amount that Halo heals for against many targets. There appears to be some form of diminishing return when healing a lot of targets (more than 4? - I've seen this behavior on as few as 5 targets). But, each target is not healed for the same amount. The total amount healed is falling within a very wide range, almost as if there is a % chance on each target healed for the heal to be diminished by some random amount up to X.

    Or, maybe it went back to some sort of distance from caster function to diminish it with lots of targets?

    Pets seem to be contributing to the max targets as well - not sure if that is intended or not.
    Well, no Blizz responses yet :(

    But, I can actually answer some of the question that Delritha had:

    The formula for Stagger is calculated using the "K" value as you call it - the Armor Diminishing Return Constant. Then, there is an Agility Multiplier (call this Coeff) that can actually be found in the spell data on the Stagger spell. It is effect 1. I noticed because I saw Stagger value increase in the last patch and this effect increased proportionately.

    Right now in the spell data that value is 140.0. (Formulas use 1.4)

    So, lets call "Base" stagger Agility * Coeff, or Agility * 1.4.

    The formula for Stagger is:

    Base = Agility * Coeff = Agility * 1.4
    Stagger = Base / (K + Base)


    Spells like Ironskin Brew show a multiplier on this effect. Right now it is a 250% multiplier, so, with IB up the value for Base is:

    Base IB = 3.5 * Base
    IB Stagger = Base IB / (K + Base IB)


    The multiplier for Fortifying Brew and High Tolerance is 50%.

    Also, not asked in here, but, very relevant to Brewmaster TC is that Moderate Stagger occurs when the total damage left on your stagger is > 30% of your current max health. WIth High Tolerance this is increased to 40%. Heavy Stagger occurs at > 60%/70% with/without High Tolerance respectively.

    The "K" value for a level 120 - 123 target is 6300 (we have also confirmed/noticed the values seem to be the same for 120-123). For 110 it is 1423, For 113 it is 2107.

    I don't have a 120 on the beta realm yet, but, with these numbers someone who does have a 120 could easily calculate the creature armor values for 120, 123 mobs. If anyone would be so kind as to post those here, that would be very helpful to me! The creature armor for 110 is 631 and for 112 it is 831.
    Looking over what you have shown, there appears to be two completely different "K" value tables since the values you have shown are completely different from the ones that SimC "automagically" generate; which have not changed since Alpha's start.

    For example, at level 120; the Active Mitigation K value is 6300; where as the K value from SimC is 7765 (or an 81% variance).

    At level 110; the Active Mitigation K value is 1423; whereas the SimC value is 2500 (or a 57% variance).

    I've asked Navv about it and hope to have a reply in the morning.
    I believe we already sent this over to a few of you in here, but I wanted to share it in this thread in case other people are following this thread and looking for Damage Mitigation formulas. We did a bunch of research and in-game testing to figure it out. Might as well make sure no one else has to reinvent the wheel.

    http://blog.askmrrobot.com/diminishing-returns-other-bfa-tank-formulas/
    I haven't tried BrM on the Beta yet.
    07/04/2018 03:39 PMPosted by Swolb
    Well, no Blizz responses yet :(

    But, I can actually answer some of the question that Delritha had:

    The formula for Stagger is calculated using the "K" value as you call it - the Armor Diminishing Return Constant. Then, there is an Agility Multiplier (call this Coeff) that can actually be found in the spell data on the Stagger spell. It is effect 1. I noticed because I saw Stagger value increase in the last patch and this effect increased proportionately.

    Right now in the spell data that value is 140.0. (Formulas use 1.4)

    So, lets call "Base" stagger Agility * Coeff, or Agility * 1.4.

    The formula for Stagger is:

    Base = Agility * Coeff = Agility * 1.4
    Stagger = Base / (K + Base)


    Spells like Ironskin Brew show a multiplier on this effect. Right now it is a 250% multiplier, so, with IB up the value for Base is:

    Base IB = 3.5 * Base
    IB Stagger = Base IB / (K + Base IB)


    The multiplier for Fortifying Brew and High Tolerance is 50%.

    Also, not asked in here, but, very relevant to Brewmaster TC is that Moderate Stagger occurs when the total damage left on your stagger is > 30% of your current max health. WIth High Tolerance this is increased to 40%. Heavy Stagger occurs at > 60%/70% with/without High Tolerance respectively.

    The "K" value for a level 120 - 123 target is 6300 (we have also confirmed/noticed the values seem to be the same for 120-123). For 110 it is 1423, For 113 it is 2107.

    I don't have a 120 on the beta realm yet, but, with these numbers someone who does have a 120 could easily calculate the creature armor values for 120, 123 mobs. If anyone would be so kind as to post those here, that would be very helpful to me! The creature armor for 110 is 631 and for 112 it is 831.

    I tested this on live, and it looks like the multiplier for High Tolerance is now 40%. The other 3 numbers (K, ISB, FB) are correct.

    e: Just for some numbers, my monk staggers ~81.8% with ISB and ~86.3% with ISB & HT. This is an increase of 4.5%, but by adding HT, I'm reducing the portion of incoming damage that isn't staggered by 24.7%. This is all unbuffed (ilvl 242). Completely naked, my monk staggers ~55.7% with ISB and ~63.7% with ISB & HT. This is an increase of 8%, but by adding HT, I'm reducing the portion of incoming damage that isn't staggered by 19.2%.
    Yeah, they did an update and reduced High Tolerance to 40% multiplier (tooltip changed from 10% to 8%).

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